it was a satelite amp.... 20db low noise.... i connected the wire to 12v to power it up... i lost quite a bit of signal strength and it was placed near the tuner

The in-line amps used for Satellite TV run on a much higher frequency band and in no way are compatible with off air UHF. And placing 12 volts onto the coax line to power the amp without having DC isolation blocks at the tuner and antenna could have fed 12 volts into the tuner and fried it along with cooking the balun up on your antenna too.

If you’re going to use an amp buy the right kind made for off air UHF reception. The amp should be placed at the antenna to compensate for loss over your cable. And don't use Rg59... use only Rg6

the amp was rated for 200mhz-2.1ghz so thats in the uhf range... actually i have isolated the dc from the tuner as well... im not exactly an amateur... and how would rg6 help if the cable is only 7-8m long

EDIT: ok so lets say my experiment was a flop.... before i go and spend another $80 do you really think a preamp + rg6 cable would help a lot?.... sometimes stations like abc and pbs go down to like 15% reception... is it possible to bring those past 30% in such times with just an amp+rg6 cable?

The problem could have been environmental as well (multipath, dead zones, etc.) so its possible the amp was doing just fine.

Nevertheless I agree with HDTV101 that a specific UHF TV amp would have been preferable in the hopes that it would have notch filters built in to eliminate possible cross-frequency problems.

It would be nice if you could do some tests with someone's tried-and-true gear for comparison.

eliminator I would say definately you cannot use a sat inline amp, pretty sure it has a high noise rating.

Normally RG6 cable has better shield and lower loss, but like I said with your short cable run I dont think you have any significant signal lose.

Rg59 only loses about .75-1.5db from 75'+ compared to RG6 and a little more over longer distance.

Its hard to suggest how to improve your reception without seeing how and where your antenna is mounted and how much of those trees blocking your signal.

Did you make up your own cable and put on the ends yourself ?

A important tip for readers here who are not experienced, make sure that you did not strip away the braided ground wires.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL83/536944/4741575/147707202.jpg
I pulled back the braided shield so you can see better.

Was the white center part(dielectric) of the cable butt right up against the inside of the cable connector and then you have atleast 1/4" of of the center copper conductor sticking out.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL83/536944/4741575/147707199.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL83/536944/4741575/147707195.jpg

I have seen many installs that the person does not know how to strip a cable properly and stripped away all the braided wire and then the white dielectric was not butt flush with the inside of the connector.

This resulting is weak signal from the Buffalo stations and also weaker local 8bars on a Samsung 451 instead of 10 bars.

ya i made the connections myself... well my dad did it since he's the experienced one... the cable is crappy quality though.. just a few wires for the ground... a lot less than the one in the picture above.... anyway if it helps... im gona go outside and take some pics of my setup and then ill show you guys on a map where i am exactly

ok here are the pics.... the wall the antenna is mounted to is facing directly south
http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/6451/dsc004706at.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/126/dsc004713iu.jpg
http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/6295/dsc004720bv.jpg

these are the trees that the antenna is pointing to
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/4206/dsc004732hj.jpg

eliminator I like the bracket that you used to mount it against the wall.

From the pictures that you posted it's hard to see the height but it does not look like the trees should be a big factor.

Question if you were to stand on the roof behind where the antenna is pointed how much of the trees is blocking the antenna?

If the braided ground/shield i snot very good, then I would as HDTv said run a new line using RG6, cant hurt and try and repeak again.

You should be able to get most of the Buffalo stations and the strong ones from the CN tower from your location.

i think the trees nearby are about 1-2 meters higher than my antenna.... i guess i can try a new rg6 wire.. the toronto stations are coming in strong and stable (85-95%)... however the buffalo stations vary.... nbc was working good last night around 65%... now its 0-30%... pbs is like 5%

Nbc seems to be difficult to get a consistant signal for the average person here.

Pbs is normally a very good signal and from your location and should be fine for you.

Are there are tall condo or apartment building in front or front to the sides of you ?

What your closest intersection so I can look it up and give you a general idea where your antenna should be pointing ?

Please try a new cable using RG6 and let us know the results, so we can suggest from there.

closest intersection is martin grove & rexdale... ill post my results when i get the new cable... no buildings around me... i just did rescan and these are my current results

NBC 15-30%
CBC 95%
CTV 90%
UPN 65%
CBC-F 90%
FOX 60%
CITY 90%
SUN 85-90%
CBS <15%
PBS <15%

eliminator looking on the map from your location you should be able to get almost all the signals from Buffalo as you are still north west of the CN tower.

With a compass your antenna should be pointing towards 150-170' is this where it's pointing?

Its weird that you can get a stronger signal with Fox and almost no signal with Pbs.

Because you are currently getting the local stations properly then I would say its a cable or height problem.

A tip after you connect the new RG6 cable dont cut the length down yet, have someone hold the antenna and walk up higher towards the peak of your roof. Rescan and then check the signal and see if it got a lot better for Buffalo, this will tell you if you need more height.

Good luck.

its around 150-160*... could it still be the cable is the local stations are coming in so well?

its around 150-160*... could it still be the cable is the local stations are coming in so well?

Definately can be the cable or the connectors, I posted a while back last year, that I helped a friend last fall install his 4221.

I told him do all the wiring before I reach his house. I would go on to his roof and mount and align the antenna.

I made the cable connection at the antenna and he the 3 other connectors. He did the one going to the ground block and from the ground block to the receiver.

Standing on his roof I can clearly see the CN Tower and I pointed the antenna 15-20' east of the Cn tower.

The max signal I could get on all the locals was about 8 bars. All I could get was Cbs @23 and Fox @4 to 5 bars and Pbs at 5-6 bars.

No matter how I moved the antenna the Buffalo stations would not come in any stronger. I knew the cable run was not a problem he was running about 40'.

I noticed that the cable connector at the receiver was not right. I held the cable and wiggle it a little and Fox jumped to a steady 8 on the receiver. All the locals went to 10.

I quickly recrimped that connector and told him to replace all those other ones outside he did.

ok bad news.... i tried a new rg6 cable... it made no difference.... signal strength is the same although it seems more stable.... could just be the weather though.... ABC, PBS and CBS are not in the channel list... :(

Talking about preamps. A good low noise preamp can makea big difference.

In doing my research I came across the following folks who appear to build the best preamps
http://www.researchcomms.com/hdtv.html

Unfortunately their preamps are overpriced for us - The costs of the units are:

Type 9250 £75.00 - preamp
Type 9251 £43.00 - powersupply
Type 9252 £20.00 - plastic case
Insured air mail to USA/Canada £25.00

Exchange rate is about 2.1 between CDN and GBP
OUCH! Cdn $290 or us$262 before shipping

The specs are nice though.

NOISE FIGURE - 0.4 dB.
GAIN - 20 dB.
FLATNESS - +/- 1 dB.
MAX. OUTPUT - 127 dB microvolts.

Look how low the noise is

A good preamp such as this would make even a smaller antenna more effective

I recently got a Channel Master 7477A Pre-amp off ebay for $0.01 plus $25 shipping. The seller said that it is about a 15 year old model but it was still brand new in the box and never been used. It says on the box that it is a high gain low noise uhf/vhf with 300 ohm input and 75 ohm downlead. I have hooked it up and it seems to work fine. I'm guessing this model was discontinued and replaced by the 7777 model. The info included in the box doesn't even state the gain and noise levels. Anyone else out there using one of these 7477 models?

I recently got a Channel Master 7477A Pre-amp...Murray, any chance of a photo of it with all its gear? I don't know that model and I can't find any reference to that model number in search engines. Does the CM packaging refer to it as a "Titan"?

There isn't any mention of "Titan" anywhere but it lists two other similar models as "7478A and 7479A". I did a google search for it before and was able to find one site that listed the 7777 as its replacement but I can't find it anymore.

I have found an VHF/FM/UHF 10dB Amplifier 50-900 MHz. Is this any good for OTA? I've plugged it in but since removed it. I didn't notice any change in signal strength (according to the DVICO software).

PS: Not getting very good OTA results currently. Hope it improves.