Even with some trees in the way, your proximity to the CN Tower is such that a CM7777 is still overkill.

If you read through this thread, you'll see that ION is problematic for many people in the Toronto area anyways; especially those in the west. An amp can only amplify a signal that's present, to compensate for line/insertion loss between the antenna and your tuner. It can't magically pull in signals that aren't there to begin with.

It could be that the noise level of the distribution amp is higher than the CM7777, and this could explain why ION is easier to tune with the CM7777. However, using an overpowering amp to catch one station to the detriment of most others is not a solution.

I'm posting a picture to help illustrate (LINK and IMG, having issues with IMG). It's not just the trees, but there's also a big metallic heating/AC unit on the roof partially obscuring the CN tower (See blue arrows, first pic below). Red was the original location, Green is the current location. I realize that CM-7777 is very strong under normal circumstances, which is WHY I am hiding behind obstructions, so that the amplifier doesn't overdrive the CN tower signals. A slight shift will increase the signal I get from the CN tower, but it also causes issues to the other signals.

I understand that you need a signal to amplify, please give me some credit. I'm tuning the antenna by reading the signal output straight from the antenna, before the CM-7777 (using DIGIAIR), trying to balance various channels (ION as well as Hamilton). I'm with you on the ganging idea, but I just want to buy the most appropriate antenna for US and place it correctly. This means getting Batavia & the rest of Buffalo without getting overwhelmed by CN tower. The fact that I can occasionally get it with sub-optimal equipment is my books encouraging.

Line going North East is to CN tower
Line going South West is ION. The white building it passes over (ice rink) is lower in height then the antenna.
Line going South East is Hamilton. Assuming I have only one antenna (the PoE 8 bay clone) I think it's not quite optimized enough to pick up the VHF-HI (Channel 11) reliably unless directly pointed there. If I get the second directional antenna, then I can afford to point it towards Hamilton while the better directional takes care of Buffalo.

http://picasaweb.google.com/116700322027867289963/OTA#5662090743650212978

LINK to 1st Picture (http://picasaweb.google.com/116700322027867289963/OTA#5662090743650212978)

According Stampeder's PDF on antenna Decision Chart, he lists the Antennacraft HUB line/Winegard HD768xP antennas as picking up some 10-50 km signals and not picking up Under 20 km signals (and I'm hoping that's along the pathway of the Polar Plot that I saw in the Winegard Spec sheet). Using the above image, if I placed it on the southeastern end of the building, and the other 8-bay PoE pointed at Hamilton, I'm hoping it's far enough apart to avoid interference and I can combine the signals (two different antennas).

The second image shows a zoomed out image. I can't see any local obstructions either on this image or actually on the roof which would cause issues with reaching Batavia (unless there's something over there that takes out everything in western GTA). I haven't figured out how to search within a vBulletin thread, but in scanning the thread I just see some people in the west end having problems with ION but nothing talking about ways to overcome it or explaining why it is a PITA.

There's a cell phone tower out in the general direction of WUTV-ish, not sure if that would explain the 100% to dropout that I have with 29-1 and 49-1. I can't quite locate it on the satellite image.

http://picasaweb.google.com/116700322027867289963/OTA#5662096349068581794

LINK to 2nd Picture (http://picasaweb.google.com/116700322027867289963/OTA#5662096349068581794)

insahnity,

Welcome to the forum. You've obviously been doing a lot of reading up prior to committing to an installation.

I read your posts. Here are my impressions.
-7777 pre-amp is overkill and will introduce more problems than it solves (and I am a fan of pre-amps. I have one on my tower). You can read about my antenna setup in my signature and see photos on my profile. I have a Winegard 7697 and a 7778 pre-amp.
- no need for rg11 wiring. Again could introduce more problems since many don't install the connectors properly. Consider new RG6 if your RG6 is damaged.
- If your landlord doesn't want anything on the roof, then (s)he isn't going to want an 8200u mounted to a wall, if it were even possible to do so safely. Same goes for a 7698. The 8200u is not appropriate for Toronto anyway because there are no low-vhf channels. The HBUxx/769x series would be better than an 8200u.
-You do not need to use both a pre-amp and distribution amps. I can split my signal 16 ways if I want to without losing any channels using quality non-powered splitters. Currently, my system has nine splits and I get WBBZ and ION.
- Not many people in your area are boasting everyday reception of WPXJ ION on rf23 virtal channel 51.
- If you're limited to a wall/balcony installation then you should lower your expectations with respect to the number of channels you expect to receive flawlessly.
- Maybe work on your landlord with another more well-presented approach. If you're willing to invest the time and do the work, if you show him/her how valuable a master TV antenna is to his/her business.
-Don't buy an 8-bay antenna with a hinge in the middle. If/when those antennas work, they are working in spite of themselves. If it's not a Channel Master, Winegard, Antennas Direct, or Antennacraft, then stay away from it until you learn more.

My advice for now would be to start modestly and then spend more money on solving your problems as you learn more. For now, why not start with getting a brand-name antenna? It would not be a waste of money to try out a Channel Master 4221hd antenna or two if you want to practice and experiment with using two antennas. CFTO on VHF will work for you with a UHF antenna, and you may just choose to give-up on CHCH even though it's a good channel. Now that I have a rotator and can aim straight at CHCH it is still proving problematic for me. You can sell 4221hds for almost the same price as you pay for them. If you get CFTO 100% with a clone four-bay then you really don't need an antenna wth VHF capability. Start with CM4221hds.

Also, I'd try out a different pre-amp -- either a Winegard 269 or a Kitztech kt100vg and get some quality non-powered splitters (channel master/pct).

Spend some time researching how realistic the harder channels really are from your location taking into account your perceived challenges. If you're planning on distributing your signal to multiple TVs (ie different people's apartments), you might not want to build up people's expectations raising hopes of getting the three extra channels from ION, four extra channels from WBBZ, four channels from WNYB, CHCH, CTS, etc and whatever other challenging channels you have. Tell people they can get nine-or so Toronto channels plus NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, CW, and MyTV if you get it. Then they'll be happy and you can go on obsessing over the other channels as a personal hobby.

Also, in the last week or so, reception in the GTA has been weird. This morning I scanned in 53 channels. With that many extra channels flying through the air, it would not be a surprise that for some people the unusual tropo would result in drop-outs on normally reliable channels (WUTV, WNYO) for you.

insahnity,

Welcome to the forum. You've obviously been doing a lot of reading up prior to committing to an installation.

I read your posts. Here are my impressions.
-7777 pre-amp is overkill and will introduce more problems than it solves (and I am a fan of pre-amps. I have one on my tower). You can read about my antenna setup in my signature and see photos on my profile. I have a Winegard 7697 and a 7778 pre-amp.


*grumbles* but ... but... It's so prettyyyy...

Seriously, not sure how much a 7778 will change things. From a very superficial view, the only difference I see is 3 dB less gain and a little more noise from the 7778. Am I not getting something?


- no need for rg11 wiring. Again could introduce more problems since many don't install the connectors properly. Consider new RG6 if your RG6 is damaged.


I currently had some RG6 that was, quite frankly, lying around in a swamp that was a flat roof. I cut off generous portions of the ends and found really good RG6, about 150 ft. I'm only concerned about the pedigree of this RG6, "some RG6 is more equal than others" if you catch my drift. Also, some sections the internal insulation was ... snap crackle pop. I expect my cereal to do that, not my insulation.

As for RG-11, I'm not shelling out cash. I just happen to have access to some at a VERY VERY VERY VERY good rate (no, you can't have any! MINE!).
As for the connectors, I was planning to do the work myself. I've wired up some token ring laboratories (RG-59) in my day. I'm also getting the appropriate tools for RG-11 connections, as well as reputable brand name connectors. I work with instruments that generate signals in the picoAmperes of current (ahhhh.. the SI prefixes! milli, micro, nano, pico,.. that's 10^-12 amperes.). This is why I have access to RG-11 (that's actually the low quality stuff for us.. I didn't want to get silly and use military grade stuff...).


- If your landlord doesn't want anything on the roof, then (s)he isn't going to want an 8200u mounted to a wall, if it were even possible to do so safely. Same goes for a 7698. The 8200u is not appropriate for Toronto anyway because there are no low-vhf channels. The HBUxx/769x series would be better than an 8200u.

The "landlord" I have known for 15 years, but just recently became his tenant. A two-four will solve the problem, either bottoms up as chums, or chuck it at him (after appropriate drainage).

But he does have a valid point. The roof is old (~100 year old factory converted to living space). He doesn't want roof penetrations, but towers or wall mounts might be work. A tower is a bit more than I want to invest, hence the wall mount. I have also seen the non-penetrating frames, with cinderblocks and mats, but not sure how to tie Guy-wire without...penetrating the roof...

As for antenna selection, I was looking at the specs, and the gain in the Channel 11 range is exactly the same between the 7698 and the 8200U, all I am getting is an antenna slightly cheaper because people want to unload it to make room for 7698 (at the cost of a heavier antenna). I was leaning towards the 7698, but I was curious if the extra VHF elements would help me catch CHCH off the side without being pointed directly at Hamilton, hence I mentioned the 8200U.


-You do not need to use both a pre-amp and distribution amps. I can split my signal 16 ways if I want to without losing any channels using quality non-powered splitters. Currently, my system has nine splits and I get WBBZ and ION.


I wasn't planning to. I listed the gear I have access to. It's pretty clear with the 7777 that there's enough OTA Ju-Ju to power the TVs that are online, but it's in the wings. As you might expect, the DAs are actually causing more headache by introducing more noise. As Jasse correctly pointed out, my problem is more catching the signal than amplifying it (read: I get it!)

Ok. Upon meditating on all the wise people of Digitalhome.ca screaming at me for trying to overdrive this sucker, let me ask this: is the extra 3 dB really causing more problems than 3 dB (7777 vs 7778)? or even the 14 dB between the 7777 and the Winegard 269. I'm looking at the noise introduced with the 7777 preamp, sure it's there, but it's manageable, and its not much more than the other pre-amplifier. I just don't understand what the issue is (help!). I tried no pre-amp and a Distribution amp (CM3414) and it was worse. And I plan to, like you, split this a gazillion ways with a lot of wire in the future with passive splitters.


- Not many people in your area are boasting everyday reception of WPXJ ION on rf23 virtal channel 51.


Well shoot. I wanna be stubborn and be the only guy in GTA West that gets ION in the dead of winter during a nuclear EMP. Oh, and maybe some OTA from Australia would be nice too. For me, the journey is more important than the end result. It's a hobby after all.


- If you're limited to a wall/balcony installation then you should lower your expectations with respect to the number of channels you expect to receive flawlessly.


That's just it. I am sitting on a 30 foot high gently sloping gable roof, with oodles of space I can use barring obstructions, and CLEAR line of sight to the gorgeous blue waters of Lake Ontario AND the CN tower. I can't imagine many people can boast that. I looked at a TV Fool plot of some relatives in Brampton, and man do I have it good. There are no balconies or windows to have to deal with, i have 360 degree freedom (as far as obstructions will allow me). All I have is my time, my patience, my money, no roof penetrations and not go causing trouble (like large metal pointy things falling from 35 feet and killing other tenants. My landlord may not like that much).


- Maybe work on your landlord with another more well-presented approach. If you're willing to invest the time and do the work, if you show him/her how valuable a master TV antenna is to his/her business.


This is a hobby. I suppose it is equally as useful as gambling at a casino, lottery tickets, drinking booze, sunning myself in another continent, or whatever. My landlord doesn't run a business beyond keeping a spotless and well maintained property, so if I wanna go kill myself getting OTA he doesn't mind as long as it doesn't inconvenience him like cause leaky roofs or cause grief to other tenants.


-Don't buy an 8-bay antenna with a hinge in the middle. If/when those antennas work, they are working in spite of themselves. If it's not a Channel Master, Winegard, Antennas Direct, or Antennacraft, then stay away from it until you learn more.


Yeah, my general rule of thumb is just that, never buy cr@p. However, I didn't buy this Piece of Excrement (PoE). Some guy in the building payed some undeserving #$&@#$ a lot of money to install a $25 antenna, pointed at the CN tower, with substandard cabling and crimping (already rusting in under 3 months IN SUMMER no less, absolutely no weatherproofing). I merely inherited this waste of metal. My goal is to get a good antenna, and for the good of the planet, hang this other PoE 8 Bay Bowtie antenna elsewhere to grab small things (like CHCH or something).

I plan to put up a proper antenna, but I don't want to buy a CM-4221 and then change my mind and go get another Flavour of the Month antenna. I know I want deep fringe reliable signals, it's a PITA to work with, I realize that, but i want to do it right the first time. I was struggling with learning about signals, when I got fed up and got the right tool, the DIGIAIR. Yes it's $300 I could have spent elsewhere, and I could have done the same with a hauppage USB tuner or whatever, but this is working well for me.

The problem is, I have never seen the output of a directional antenna like a crossfire/HBU/76XX but I don't want my local OTA (drug) dealer to get sick of me going back and forth while I try different antennas (they already are, but they are great just the same, thanks Grace!).

So I am determined to get a deep fringe rated antenna, again to get consistent access to ION knowing that western GTA is the proverbial black hole of ION reception. WBBZ isn't as important, it's not a channel count for me, I really really like ION for some reason. If I can do it without getting a 13 foot boom, great!


My advice for now would be to start modestly and then spend more money on solving your problems as you learn more. For now, why not start with getting a brand-name antenna? It would not be a waste of money to try out a Channel Master 4221hd antenna or two if you want to practice and experiment with using two antennas. CFTO on VHF will work for you with a UHF antenna, and you may just choose to give-up on CHCH even though it's a good channel. Now that I have a rotator and can aim straight at CHCH it is still proving problematic for me. You can sell 4221hds for almost the same price as you pay for them. If you get CFTO 100% with a clone four-bay then you really don't need an antenna wth VHF capability. Start with CM4221hds.


If anybody is reading this and has an antenna "for rent", let me know :p

Looking for long walks down the beach with many many voluptuous UHF elements to suck in those fringe signals.


Also, I'd try out a different pre-amp -- either a Winegard 269 or a Kitztech kt100vg and get some quality non-powered splitters (channel master/pct).


Using Antennas Direct powerpass splitter and the one that came with my DIGIAIR, and I have tried several no-name regular splitters of various sizes that were in good shape, all of which have reasonable insertion losses (3.5). I hooked them all up the the DIGIAIR as well as looking at the results on my CM7000PAL/Samsung D6000 TV, no noticeable difference (I need to get a PC card tuner to see signal and quality, looking to get an HDHomeRun for the denizens of the building that don't own TVs). This of course is with no DA in the mix and the 7777 powering stuff. If I put no pre-amp, things get too weak pretty quick with the multiple 150+ ft runs that I currently have. DA and no preamp is too noisy.


Spend some time researching how realistic the harder channels really are from your location taking into account your perceived challenges. If you're planning on distributing your signal to multiple TVs (ie different people's apartments), you might not want to build up people's expectations raising hopes of getting the three extra channels from ION, four extra channels from WBBZ, four channels from WNYB, CHCH, CTS, etc and whatever other challenging channels you have. Tell people they can get nine-or so Toronto channels plus NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, CW, and MyTV if you get it. Then they'll be happy and you can go on obsessing over the other channels as a personal hobby.


Way ahead of you. People don't know what I am getting nor have I promised anything. The two other people who have feeds don't really watch too much TV and they are happy that they are getting more signals. if they lose signals because I screw up, they don't say "I Lost this channel" they just politely inquire how things are going, eh neighbour? We're all Canadians here. And yeah, I'm the only one obsessing (I'm here, aren't I?).


Also, in the last week or so, reception in the GTA has been weird. This morning I scanned in 53 channels. With that many extra channels flying through the air, it would not be a surprise that for some people the unusual tropo would result in drop-outs on normally reliable channels (WUTV, WNYO) for you.

AH THANK YOU! The first good piece I got recently that explains some things. I haven't spent a winter so I don't have a clue what's going to happen, and I don't have a rotator (rotators don't work too well screwed to .. concrete curbs... *sigh*).

Anyone getting WROC 8-1 and 8-2 from Rochester?
Strangely, I am getting that tonight with a 65% signal rate. I am getting 0% on WGRZ 2.1 and 2.2 tonight.

Weird stuff happening these days!

Insahnity - I have the HDHOMERUN Dual by Elgato (Mac user here) ... it's not bad, but the tuner is really sensitive. Seems like it won't tune any channels if the signal rate on the Sharp TV I have is 50% for those channels. It has to be 60 or greater for tunability.

I am also picking up 8-1 & 8-2, for the first time today with no pre amp.

How's your 2.1 and 2.2 reception?
I'm finding that those two are extremely problematic.

Wondering if my setup is causing it.

CM 4221HD -> 13 feet of RG6 -> Flat ribbon cable to fit under patio door -> 10 feet of RG6 -> 2 way splitter ->

Leg 1 of splitter-> 10 feet of RG6 to Sharp Aquos 46" TV
Leg 2 of splitter-> 6 feet of RG6 to Elgato/Silicon Dust HDHOMERUN Dual Ethernet tuner

I do not have a Preamp or DA.
wondering if all the connectors are causing a lot of loss.

Here's my tv fool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b59bc93b0c99


Suggestions?

Wait for a few days for this weather to pass before blaming your system. The reception in the last week has been odd to say the least. I have been pulling in signals in East York from Peterborough, Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, Erie, and elsewhere in Pennsylvania. At times, regular channels from Toronto and Rochester have dropped out because of this odd reception.

Yesterday during the day, TVOntario on 19 was taken over by Fox68 Syracuse on rf19. One minute TVO. The next time I looked up it was some TV judge show. It's got to be pretty odd reception when TVO from four miles away gets replaced by somethng two hundred miles away.

I changed the direction of the 4221 - it was pointing more east, now more south. WGRZ and all American channels are coming in stable. Toronto channels are suffering a little. A little means sometimes they drop out. (CityTV, CHCH, OMNI 1 & 2) I was thinking of grabbing another 4221HD or a 4220HD (2 Bay) and aiming that more towards Hamilton and the CN Tower area ---
At that point I was thinking of installing a 7778 preamp. The only issue is CBLT is coming in at 90% and WIVB is sometimes hitting 100%.

I'm with HWP, I'm picking up all sorts of garbage signals as well on my CM7000PAL that it recognizes but cannot lock to. I was watching 8.1,2 for a bit, but it's gone as of last night, and my CFMT pair stabilized a bit late last night, as did ION.

I'm noticing that my signals are more stable and representative late at night (after 11). Not sure if this is due to weather or human activities.

Phybersplice, thanks, but I have learned that those numbers are largely meaningless (there's a large thread that somebody can point you to discussing this). My CMPAL7000 will try and struggle anywhere from 57-61% whereas my my Samsung will flawlessly show a 0% signal without pixelation or audio dropout. Again, I don't have any device (yet) which shows signal strength and signal quality separately, the HDHomeRun is what I plan to obtain to do that. As for sensitivity, I think that is the nature of the beast, and as HWP says, there's something funky going on weather-wise.

Hi all,

Just moved to Yonge/Eglinton in a condo facing North/West. Original plan was to try an indoor antenna, however the results were very poor so I decided to put one out on the balcony.

TV Fool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b586cc2e89a7

Have some newb questions that was hoping to get some answers for - my apologies in advance for the lengthy-ness and newbular-ness of my questions.

1. Antenna

I'm using what looks like the CM4221 (but may be a knock off) that was given to me from a friend. Is there any way to tell what brand/model antenna I am currently using?

Also will eventually look to buy a better antenna (especially if this is a knock off). Any recommendations? My preference is one that is setup flat/vertical (like the CM4221) as opposed to the triangular shaped ones (because a triangular one would become the centre-piece of the balcony)

I'm a bit confused as to whether I need a combo one or not. Google says that this antenna picks up UHF only (14-69), however I do get CTV and some other channels that are below 14.

2. Reception

I'm getting 20+ channels successfully. For some reason I can't pick up OMNI or CITY TV, which I was hoping to get.

Don't understand why sometimes I get full reception for channels like NBC, CBC, CTV2, FOX, COOLTV and other times I get no reception? I guess I thought that for channels that are strong, I would sometimes see signal strength lessen by 20% or so, but not 80%. Is this a common issue?

3. Set-up

Currently, I'm using a 50ft RG6 cable (bought from Home Depot). Depending on where I will ultimately place the antenna, I think there may be about 10-15ft of slack. Do you think this will make a very big difference in performance?

I cut my own ends and put on a screw-on connector. Will a crimped connector make a very big difference?

4. Amplifier

Originally during the indoor testing stage, I bought a Terk HDTVa antenna. Currently I use the amplifier that comes with it, which is connected to the back of the TV. The reception improves with this amplifier. Just trying to understand this better (as I will need to buy my own amplifier when I return the Terk). In all that I've read, it seems as though the amplifier should be connected to the antenna. Curious as to what this Terk amplifier is, and if I should get this kind of amplifier instead of a pre-amp?

5. Splitting

Eventually, I am planning on using the internal wiring in my condo to split the connection to the various rooms. Did a trial run and it worked perfectly (I'm pretty excited about this). A couple of questions on this. Do I require a seperate amplifier for this setup (my condo is about 1100 sq ft). I'm currently using the splitter in the communications box - is it worth it to invest in a better splitter?

Thanks so much - definitely appreciate any input.

Last Friday, I made some changes to my antenna tower that have brought further improvements to my OTA set-up.

My tower is a 30-foot tower, installed on a concrete slab that is already about four feet above ground level, plus now I added a 10 foot Delhi 1.5" diameter, 18 guage mast (about 8 feet of it is being used to add height. I added an old Channel Master Rotator model 9510 - it's probably from the 1970's. Then there is another short mast about three feet above the rotator containing the Winegard hd9697p annenna and the Channel Master 7778 pre-amp.

I have posted updated photos of my setup in my HWP profile photo albums.

I got the vintage antenna rotator from the collection of DH member and very knowledgeable OTA hobbyist, "Southgate."

I am really happy I added the rotator. I won't need it often, but when it is needed it looks like it will really help. Up until last Friday I had my antenna pointed at WBBZ (or at least I thought so). That meant the antenna was making a compromise on WPXJ ION and on all of the other Buffalo, Toronto, and Hamilton channels.

Now, when I'm watching WBBZ, I can use the signal meter on my TV to find the peak signal. If I switch to qubo (ION) for the kids I can use the signal meter to peak the signal for WPXJ. It really has made a huge difference. When pointed at WBBZ, my signal meter goes up to full strength or nearly full strength. When pointed at WPXJ the signal meter shows a perfect 100% full bars reception. The other good news is even though I'm tweaking the antenna direction to help on those weaker channels, there is no change to the reception quality on any of the other Toronto and Buffalo channels. This means that having a rotator in Toronto in a multiple-TV-house situation is not problematic. You can have viewers watching shows on many different TVs and the chances that moving the atenna enough to peak WPXJ or WBBZ will not impact reception on any of the other TVs.

Another interesting but negative note is that CHCH did not improve for me. CTS did. When aimed at CTS in Hamilton, it comes in every time. Hamilton CHCH remains about 60/40 channel for me. My challenge is that from my location Toronto and Hamilton are within one degree of each other. That means if I point my antenna straight at Hamilton, I've got a pre-amped antenna pointed at the CN Tower only four miles away risking overload (though I see no overload evidence). But that is a possible explanation why CHCH remains unreliable at times.

Also, sadly, no CKVR...yet. I'm not giving up on it yet though. Since last Friday, the tropo has been crazy. I have not been able to do a scan yet where WHEC did not lock-in --- even when pointed at Barrie! So with that strong interference, CKVR has not yet really had a fair chance. Once this wacky reception ends I'll try again for Barrie CKVR CTV2.

Interestingly, I can be pointed straight north an I still pick up almost every Toronto station and some of the Buffalo stations, -- and even some Rochester ones won't go away when pointed away.

WBBZ has not dropped out since I added the rotator. Could be the tropo, remember. Time will tell if I have found the solution for WBBZ.

Reception Report: Greenwood and Mortimer

2.1 NBC
2.1 Universal Sports Network
4.1 CBS
5.1 CBC
7.1 ABC
9.1 CTV
11.1 CHCH (it's still coming through more than half the time)
15.0 Star Ray
17.1 PBS HD
17.2 PBS SD
17.3 PBS Think Bright
19.1 TVOntario
23.1 TheCW
25.1 Radio-Canada
26.1 TCT1
26.2 TCT2
26.3 TCT Family
26.4 La Fuente
29.1 Fox
29.3 The Country Network
36.1 CTS
41.1 Global
47.1 Omni 1
49.1 MyTV Buffalo
49.2 Cool TV
51.1 ION
51.2 qubo
51.3 ION Life
57.1 CityTV
66.1 Sun News Network
67.1 WBBZ
67.2 ThisTV
67.3 MeTV
67.4 Daystar
69.1 Omni 2

New analogs since rotator was installed:
12 CHEX Peterborough
22 CHEX Oshawa
27 CIII Peterborough
All are watchable, as is rf15 Star Ray, but I filter analogs out.

Winegard hd7697p
Channel Master 7778
Channel Master 9510 Rotator
Approx 45ft height

If you have an old tower in your yard, you should do this. If you are thinking about a tower, I think it's great. I put up this tower in June 2011 and have no regrets.

HWP, how reliable is 51.1-3 with your setup?
Thanks

I'm also getting a 49.3 and 49.4 sub-channel, but I can't lock on. Anybody else get this? It's weird given that 49-1 and 49-2 are pretty strong for me.

duok,

WPXJ rf23 virtual 51.1 ION, 51.2 qubo, 51.3 ION Life

...is 99%-100% reliable in spring, summer, and fall. To be determined for winter, though I expect better results this winter now with the rotator.

Last winter our OTA signal came from our roof peak mounted unamplified Channel Master 4221hd aimed at WGRZ. Anytime the weather dropped below about -3 degrees, we would lose ION. This meant that we could lose ION for weeks at a time last winter. I could see on my HDHomeRun analyzer that the signal was still close to coming through.

Now with the rotator and pre-amp, we'll be able to fine-tune by aiming straight at the transmitter in cooler weather when necessary. That should reduce drop-outs signficantly.

As for WBBZ, it is not a super strong station, so I won't be surprized if WBBZ goes "on vacation" for winter. ION seems much more robust for me. They are both 2-Edge stations for me so they will behave like that at times, but I think I have optimized my potential at this point.

The only other idea I have left at this point would be experimenting with different antennas but I am not super eager to run out and buy more antennas at this time.

Hey HWP

I picked up a 4220HD this afternoon and pointed it at First Canadian Place / CN Tower. My 4221HD is pointed at Buffalo. I ran cable from each antenna at the same length and plugged them into a splitter (which I am using backwards as a combiner) on the balcony. I realize that the weather is crappy to do fine tuning (rain and wind), however, CFTO is at 97% WIVB is 100% WGRZ is 60% WUTV is 80%. My problem channels are OMNI2 and CITYTV. Having some issues with signal for them. I figure I have 7dB of loss already with the two splitters I'm using not including 30-40 feet of cable. Do I need to get a distribution amp? Something like a Channel Master 3412?

HWP Are you getting Ion channels today ? I can not get them today even with a rotator .

I'm not getting ION ... I was earlier today before the rain.

I am getting most channels still but since sep 1 cfto channel 9 doesn't come in well. My mast is aimed directly at grand island ny. I get most us stations all the time but cfto not much.

Where are you located? Thought of getting a separate antenna for Toronto locals?