: ON - City of Toronto Metro Area <OUTDOOR Antennas Only> - OTA
2011-07-17, 01:53 PM
are there two baluns, one for each 4 bay, then combined using a hybrid splitter? that's what it looks like googling it.
found this comment in the clone antennas thread (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1075442&postcount=140)
although whoever posted that never posted again, so who knows what set them off....
2011-07-17, 02:14 PM
I think that settles the matter - seriously, Michael9009, get a better antenna like a CM4221HD 4-bay and be glad you did. :)
2011-07-17, 04:10 PM
Could any of the 8, 21, 51, 54 and 49 channels be received in my area?
2011-07-17, 04:23 PM
I am assuming that when you say 49, you are referring to WNYO-DT (MY TV - Buffalo, NY). It can be received from your area (it is now close to the WGRZ-DT (NBC - Buffalo, NY) tower, as it was for a short period over on Grand Island but directional) although a few have difficulties with it.
I am assuming that when you say 51, you are referring to WPXJ-DT (ION - Buffalo, NY) which is an even tougher station for some in Toronto since it is in Batavia, NY (so farther Southeast) but could be received with a proper setup. Or you could be referring to CICA-DT (TVO - Toronto, ON) which will be on-air soon and you should get it easily.
I am assuming that when you say 8 and 21, you are referring to WROC-DT (CBS - Rochester, NY) and WXXI-DT (PBS- Rochester, NY). Neither of these would be received consistently in your area with your setup (just DX) unless you go to an extreme level (large tower, antennas made for those specific RF stations, etc). Only those in the east end near the lake have any real shot for consistent reception.
I have NO idea what channel 54 is in your head. Perhaps WQLN-DT (PBS - Erie, PA)? If so, don't have any expectations of getting this station (except for DX, just like above). People in Port Dover to Port Stanley have the best chances of getting that station and they have had minimal results as the Erie, PA stations are highly directional.
In the future make sure you list by call-sign instead of PSIP Channel or RF Channel as it will help avoid confusion (especially since, as you can see abouve, WPXJ and CICA both will likely be using 51).
And as per Stampeder, I too agree that for your location based on your tests the CM4221HD is probably the way to go.
8 (WROC rf45), 21 (WXXI rf16), and 54 (WQLN Erie PBS rf50) are definitely not every channels in Toronto. When you get them, enjoy them and think of it as a fluke. And definitely don't bother basing an atenna choice on trying to get thsese channels.
49 (WNYO rf49) and 51 (WPXJ rf23) are channels that some people get in Toronto with effort and luck. There are a good many (if not most) that don't get 51 (ION WPXJ). Most get WNYO but some definitely have trouble with it.
I agree with Stampeder. Go with just a four-bay -- specifically a brand-name one like a Channel Master 4221hd. It gives you a wide beam width and you already know that many participants here on Digital Home living in Toronto consider the 4221hd as the go-to antenna for OTA. It's plenty strong.
A person from the neighbourhood asked for some help with his OTA. I popped-by to look at his set-up and offer some advice.
My best guess is that his antenna is an RCA ant711 amplified indoor-outdoor antenna based on how it looks. He is using it unamplified outdoors at roof level. He said with his antenna that it gives him a choice of whether to amplify or not. Don't be mistaken thinking I am recommending this antenna - because I'm not. They've had the antenna for a few years.
My advice was to re-aim toward WGRZ/WNGS type-direction. He had been aiming at the CN Tower.
I looked at his connections and they were all rusted out. I replaced the ends and we ran new wire from the roof.
The results: Starting from about 15 digital channels with spotty reception before, to 37 digital channnels after our changes (with the help of tropo, of course, since there aren't 37 digital channels available to Toronto at this time).
He and his wife were pretty thrilled with the results. They were already OTAers when I arrived, but with those dramatically improved results we can be sure Toronto has yet another household solidly committed to not bothering with paid subscription TV.
Last night he was getting:
2.1 WGRZ NBC
2.2 Universal Sports Network
2.3 Retro TV
4.1 WIVB CBS
7.1 WKBW ABC
17.1 WNED PBS
17.3 Think Bright
19.0 TV Ontario
23.1 WNLO TheCW
26.1 WNYB TCT 1
26.2 TCT HD
26.3 TCT Family
26.4 La Fuente
29.1 WUTV Fox
29.2 The Country Network
44.1 Omni 2
49.1 WNYO MyTV Buffalo
49.2 The CoolTV
51.1 WPXJ ION
51.3 ION Life
57.1 City (fading in and out - aim related)
64.1 Omni 1
66.1 Sun News Network
He was also pulling in some of the easier Rochester tropo channels.
I told him to enjoy the rest of the summer and to chat again with me in September after the transition and after he loses the benefit of the easy summer reception.
This fall he might put up the "right" antenna since he has an excellent rooftop mount. But it's hard to tell a guy he is using the "wrong" antenna when he's getting 35+ stations.
Congrats to him. I told him to spread the good news about OTA.
By the way, when I got home and scanned with my Winegard, I scanned in 47 digital channels at around 10PM last night - still haven't added a rotor yet. If I get the rotor up this summer, my goal will be to scan in 50 digitals. Summer tropo is fun.
2011-07-17, 05:24 PM
Sorry for not being clear, these are the call signs for the stations on the channels I mentioned:
8 = WROC
21 = WXXI
51 = WPXJ
54 = WQLN
49 = WNYO
Last night I was able to get channels 8 and 54 but only with the antenna in the 8-bay configuration but, around 2-3 am, they began to pixelate and disappeared.
I could not get the slightest hint of channels 21, 51 and 49.
2011-07-17, 05:30 PM
So its what HWP and I both thought. Read are comments form above, as HWP and I are on the same wave length on this.
2011-07-17, 07:01 PM
Yes, I did, thank you very much. It seems that I would not be able to receive 8, 21, 51, 54 and 49.
Good luck with your set-up. Please let us know how you make out --- especially if you decide to pick-up a 4221hd. We'll be curious if your WNYO problems get solved with it.
2011-07-18, 12:35 AM
Agreed, especially if you reconnect your amp. Maybe WNYO suddenly will come in well.
2011-07-18, 08:57 PM
Interestingly enough, I was able to receive WNYO with one half of the AT-MB08HD last night until late in the night. It was gone in the morning but now, at 19:55 it's working again. The signal strength on my Bell 6141 receiver is 72 (stations would stop working below 58-60).
Other strange things happens currently. While the signal strength for WNED was 100 last night, it's 93 now, whereas WNYB was coming in at 68 last night and at 100 now! I did not know propagation conditions on UHF could change that much.
Now, I've done some research and it seems, in the light of channels 52-69 being turned off soon, an antenna with 8 in long dipoles would be better tuned for the remaining frequencies. Unfortunately, the AT-MB08HD has 6-1/2 in dipoles, so I decided to return it.
Here is the question - it seems that the following antennas are favourites:
Channel Master CM-4221HD
Winegard HD 4400
Antenna Direct DB4
Do all these models have 8 in dipoles? Which one would you recommend most and why? Thanks.
2011-07-18, 09:12 PM
have u posted ur tvfool? what is your goal? the only one of those three I see on the antenna chart is the CM-4221HD (modified). If it made it to the antenna chart, that means other users have had good results with it.
2011-07-18, 09:20 PM
My goal is to receive as many OTA channels as possible (in order to ditch Bell TV Satellite).
This is the TVFool report for my location:
I'm sensing from all of us who are offering our advice here that there is a 100% consensus that a Channel Master 4221hd is your first choice because:
- Stampder's chart says so
- so many others are already using it and are happy enough with it to recommend it.
- it is tried, tested, and true. It is a brand-name antenna with predictable performance.
- it is very readily available in Toronto and is ususally to be had at a very competitive price.
Your TVFool report is enviable. After looking at it, I would guess that your clone antenna is holding you back. Unless you have a nearby object blocking you, I would expect you should get consistent reception of WNYO.
Do yourself a favour. Give away or toss your current antenna and get yourself a 4221hd. Don't worry about modifying the antenna. Just use it right out of the box to start. You sound handy enough to know how to modify it if it suits your fancy later.
One other good thing about the 4221hd is that if you don't like it, it will be easy to sell used for almost the same as what you paid for it. How easy do you think it will be to sell a used clone mystery antenna?
Please post your results. We'll all be curious. Good luck!
2011-07-25, 12:37 AM
I live in East York near Victoria Park/Danforth Ave & use a coat hanger antenna to watch HD OTA channels. Today at around noon, I suddenly lost all my Canadian channels that include cbc, ctv, global, city, omni1, omni2, sun, & chch. Also gone are wutv, wnyo, wgrz & wktv from USA. I changed the position of the antenna which is located on the 19th floor balcony but nothing happened. Is anyone having the same problem? Does it have anything to do with the weather? Never had this problem since I switched to OTA about three years back.
2011-07-25, 01:33 AM
It's all working fine here, Main & Gerrard.
It sounds like you have a weak link in your antenna setup. Everything has been good here all day.
Start checking all of your connections.
2011-07-25, 11:52 AM
Thanks! I'll check my antenna.
Well, we finally bout a house and moved from downtown, 200 meters sw of CN tower and moved to pape and mortimer.
While I was downtown and faced SW on my ground floor unit, I received about 15 hd channels ota.
I had a silverstar antenna (indoor, but used on my balcony and pointed it sw). All was great!
I moved in to my new house backyard facing south, sat cable already setup to downstairs movie theater room. However, when setting up my silverstar on my deck and pointed it southwest, NOTHING. Only channel 52 analog and channel 9.
I want to be an OTAer, but I need help in what do to from here.
Here is my tv fool report
Thanks for your help!!