GeorgeMx.

I just want to clarify. My antenna is on the roof now. I DO NOT use a preamplifier.
I appreciate you explanation, but it it too technical for me to understand.
What I am really looking for is a very simple answer. Should I alter my set up by using HLSJ or UVSJ or not? Are there benefits from using one or the other in my situation?

I only care what happens after the switch in August. Till then is not much of a concern to me.
What should I do comes August?

I suggest you do nothing until September after the changes have been completed. If you have problems, ask forum members for help at that time.

I agree with GeorgeMX. Don't bother making any significant changes. It was working before and it will go back to normal after all the ducting is done. If you want to try the UVSJ then try it at ground level. Don't take unnecessary chances on your roof now when you might have to go back up there in September anyway. Save the trip to the roof for after the transition. Enjoy your OTA.

Thanks all very much for all your valuable suggestions.
I will stay put til September.

I have talked about doing it, and I finally got it done yesterday. I put up Toronto's newest OTA TV tower in my backyard yesterday.

The goal was WNGS.

I did not hold out much hope. But it worked on the first night!

I have been getting WNGS for several hours!!!

I estimate that the TV Fool report is about accurate for my house with WNGS.

Here is the setup:

tower height about 35 feet.
add about two more feet of mast
no rotor yet
aimed at WNGS
Antenna: Winegard HD7697p
channel master pre-amp 7778
split three ways using two 2-way splitters to one TV and to a dual-tuner HDHomeRun
rg6 run: about 70 feet

I got a ton of new tropo channels last night. I posted in the Lake Ontario Tropo results thread --- more than fifteen channels appeared.

In this thread it is important to announce that WNGS's signal is flying through Toronto - weakly - and if you want it, you'll need a proper VHF antenna and probably a pre-amp to solidify it.

This result gives me hope for CTV2 (/A\ Channel Barrie CKVR) when it moves to rf10 afterr transition.

I'm very happy about this - even if WNGS only appears occasionally for me for now. My hope is with the analog shut-down everything will get easier. There is no doubt that there must be some amount of overload with the pre-amp up there, but no one can argue with these results!

I would describe myself as an advanced hobbyist willing to make extraordinary efforts to get hard-to-get stations. If you're looking to get into OTA just starting out, I still recommend a single Channel Master 4221hd antenna pointed a tad east of WGRZ and a pre-amp Channel Master 7778 if you're east of downtown.

Nice work HWP! How does that antenna work for WUTV?

Wilspin,

WUTV is very reliable channel for me. Even this spring with the odd reception, I don't think I have lost WUTV. At times this spring I have lost my usually 100% dependable WGRZ, WIVB, WKBW, WNYO. GeorgeMX's explanation on ducting would seem to explain it.

By the way, WNGS worked all night but I lost it at about 10:30AM today. I can tell it's still trying to tune in so it's almost there. Eventually I'll get a taller mast and add a rotor. Plus I think the analog shut-down might be all I'll need to get WNGS full-time.

HWP- great results! Please keep us updated on your results during normal- non-tropo conditions. Very interested in your Winegard antenna and it's ability to get WNGS, WNYO and ION.

Two operating OTA apparatuses at my place.

The only difference between the two at this time is that I get WNGS on the Winegard combo antenna.

Apparatus 1:
Roof peak mounted (35 feet)
Channel Master 4221hd aimed at WGRZ
UVSJ (VHF terminated) at roof level
grounding block
Kitztech 100VG
split to four TVs using a quality 4-way splitter

Apparatus 2:
Winegard HD7697P combo antenna (37 feet approx.)
Aimed at WNGS
Channel Master 7778 pre-amp
Passes through grounding block
Two 2-way splitters going to one TV and a dual-tuner HDHomeRun (white one)

2.1 WGRZ
2.2 Universal Sports
2.3 Retro TV
4.1 WIVB
5.1 CBLT
7.1 WKBW
9.1 CFTO
11.1 CHCH
17.1 WNED
17.2 WNED SD
17.3 WNED Think Bright
19.0 TVOntario
23.1 WNLO
25.1 CBLFT
26.1 TCT1
26.2 TCT2
26.3 TCT Kids
29.1 WUTV
29.2 The Country Network
36.1 CITS
41.1 CIII
44.1 Omni 2
49.1 WNYO
49.2 The Cool TV
51.1 WPXJ ION
51.2 WPXJ qubo
51.3 WPXJ ION Life
57.1 CityTV
64.1 Omni 1
66.1 CKXT
67.1 WNGS
67.2 WNGS ThisTV
67.3 WNGS Daystar - blue screen

It's too soon to say how WNGS is going to perform since today is my first day with a VHF antenna.

I looked at CKVR Barrie on RF3 in analog today using high-vhf antenna (off the back of the antenna) and the picture quality was about the same as CHCH 11 analog for me. So I have increased hope of getting CKVR CTV2 on RF10 in HD after transition.

WNYO has never been a problem station for me. Basically 100%. Except for the past couple of weeks with the odd reception where at times I've lost even the most rock-solid stations including WGRZ, WIVB, and WKBW. I'm not sweating the funny reception of late. It will pass.

ION, TCT are about 90% reliable in summer. In winter they faded at about minus three degrees Celcius. But I had no pre-amp. I installed OTA (4221hd + 7778) on two neighbours last year and they got both ION and TCT all winter long. I hope my new set-up will get me the same.

Other than ION and TCT I'd describe everything else as rock-solid reliable.

Interesting. I am contemplating a new set-up- that being a AD 91XG and Winegard YA-1713, but your results are impressive. Also, it's just one antenna and both would be top of the tower; as well, I was checking the gain charts and the 7697P is the best Winegard for channel 7, even better than the VHF YA-1713, and for the rest of the channels, the 7697P is very similar to the big daddy 7698P, but that thing is a monster. Makes me consider using the 7697P and dropping the AD/Winegard combo. Where did you get the 7697?

goforit,

All that you just explained is exactly how I came to my antenna choice. I did some asking around and the suggestions coming back were CM3671 and Winegard 8200U but I knew I didn't need to go that big to get a decent rf7 antenna.

I read the Winegard spec sheets. I read Ken Nist's antenna comparisons. Of course I read Stampeder's Antenna Chart and Stampeder recommends the Winegard 769 series for high vhf + uhf. And I called Winegard just in case and asked why does the 7697 have better gain specs on rf7 than the 7698. The fellow reminded me that I'm not really going to notice .5dB of gain difference anyway. So I went with the smaller antenna.

I have posted photos in my profile's albums section of my new tower and antenna. It's still a work-in-progress. I must get a longer mast and install a rotor. I also have to figure out an action plan for my pre-existing roof-peak setup.

In the last day or so, the only buyer's remourse I'm feeling is that I should have just gone with the 7698 intead of the 7697 because even though the spec sheet said that the 97 was the best choice, the fact remains that the 98 is a larger antenna with the extra directors, etc. But generally, I feel great about it.

I may not be the only one in Toronto getting WNGS, but I've asked more than a few times here on Digital Home if anyone in Toronto was getting it and only a couple of people said they had seen it in short bursts of tropo. Everyone else who sees WNGS is in the western GTA (Peel, Halton, Hamilton, Niagara, and points further west).

Tonight I'm getting WNGS nice and strong again and it doesn't seem like a fluke.

Also, I can confirm that my 7697p is continuing to get the same consistent reception of all my other ususal channels including ION.

Wilspin,

WUTV is very reliable channel for me.
Sorry, I forgot you are in T.O. I should have asked what the difference was in signal quality or strength.

Wilspin,

I get WUTV at 100% almost 100% of the time. Even the HDHomeRun's Config software shows WUTV as almost perfect. If WUTV has ever dropped out, I can't remember when.

Regarding WNGS, I would be lying if I told you my thoughts haven't started drifting toward a Wade 10y7s single channel antenna. But I can't think of where to find one easily. I don't need much of an improvement to have this channel work a lot better. I'm hoping the analog shut-down might change the game in my favour.

100%, this is with preamp right? After looking at the listings (Not much on I would watch) I have decided WNGS is not worth all the effort and will revisit the plan sometime in the future.

Wilspin and all readers,

I agree that WNGS is not worth extraordinary efforts from Toronto. My recommendation to all regular people reading this thread is that go with the often recommended Channel Master 4221hd antenna. With that simple, inexpensive, lightweight, easy-to-install antenna one can receive all of the most important channels from the United States.

After August 31, 2011, we will all find out if our 4221hds will be able to pick up the important VHF stations CTV CFTO and CHCH. If necessary there will be a simple upgrade everyone can do go get their missing stations back.

People like me, will be able to report if WNGS and CKVR (/A\ CTV2 Channel) come in strongly and those who are enthusiastic enough to do what is necessary to get those bonus channels can follow our lead.

But for now, I maintain that a simple 4221hd is the most practical and appropriate OTA solution for most people in Toronto. An overload-tolerant pre-amp such as a channel master 7778 or Winegard 269 is helpful sometimes.

By the way, Wilspin, I have had no pre-amp on my 4221hd since I started OTA -- just a kitztech 100 vg in the basement just before the eight-way splitter. I still use the original set-up for half of the TVs. Fox WUTV rf14 has always been a very reliable channel - more than 99% of the time it works perfectly. I just checked the channel now without any amp and it came in with full bars. HDHomeRun shows signal strength at 95% and signal quality and symbol quality at 100% each. I can tell you that in the depths of cold winter, when I removed my Kitztech amp at ground level with the eight splits, the channels that became problematic for me were: CITS, CHCH, CITY, WGRZ (sometimes), and WPXJ ION. That's with the antenna pointed at WGRZ (about 70 degrees away from Toronto/Hamilton). In winter below minus three degrees, with the Kitztech I virtually never lost WGRZ, never lost CITY. CHCH and CTS were pretty reliable but could drop out. And ION was gone 100% of the time at below minus three.

Regarding WNGS, I would be lying if I told you my thoughts haven't started drifting toward a Wade 10y7s single channel antenna. But I can't think of where to find one easily. I don't need much of an improvement to have this channel work a lot better. I'm hoping the analog shut-down might change the game in my favour.
If you are thinking about the Wade VHF, maybe also consider the VHF Blonder Tongue, similar high end/professional league with an astounding gain of 12.2 dbi, and which unlike Wade, is available to the general public, but get ready for $$$.

goforit,
Yeah, Blonder-Tongue is out there for me if I really need it. But definitely not before Aug 31 to see what changes it brings. I really want to see if CKVR works with my new setup once they're up to their full intended power on digital (I heard they will apply to increase power to better serve the GTA).

Even with the quality-level of WNGS that I get now, in my mind it still counts as a channel that I receive. In the meantime, if I stumbled upon an afordable 10y7s I would not be able to resist.

Another thing I haven't mentioned, my new Winegard antenna does not have enough height. My Winegard antenna is currently about ten feet north of my 4221hd, so there is a possibility that the 4221hd is interfering with my Winegard. They are at the same height but the Winegard is directly behind the 4221.

I removed my Channel Master 2016 altogether. I will leave my 4221hd setup on the roof. It isn't hurting anything and it will serve as proof to future readers that the simple, easy solution gets 95-100% the same results as the more hardcore complex OTA solution. Maybe this weekend, I'll add a ten foot mast to raise my Winegard well-clear of my Channel Master.

Hi, my current setup is old CM4221 -> CM7778 preamp -> 4-way CM distro amp to a dozen+ ATSC devices.

Even before the ducting this past month or 2, I still want to receive Buffalo channels more reliably.

I am looking at ganging a Antenna Direct DB2 (which I already have) with either (a) DB8/4228 or (b) 91XG

I am ~150m altitude with neighbors' trees across the street (~3 lane width).

I am not getting CHCH at all so ganging may improve that part (if the DB2 is good enough)

Should I go (a) or (b) or (c)___________________ ?
TIA!

Should I go (a) or (b) or (c)___________________ ?


I wouldn't recommend any of those. For ganging, you need identical make/model antennas. If not, it's impossible to get them in phase.
From North York, CHCH is really hard to get, its hiding behind the CN Tower.
To much amplifaction makes things worse, the high power stations swamp out the weaker ones. We expect atsc reception to get better when they shut down the analogs.

I will hold off until September analog shut off.

The American analog shut off didn't do a thing to my reception previously:)

I may also try the original 4221 + DB2 since I have both already.