Completely agree with this. When three different people in this forum are telling you something and your installer doesn't agree, you may want to reconsider your choice of installer. :rolleyes:


Antenna: Winegard SS-2000 "Square Shooter" mounted on an existing OTA antenna tower, approximately 10 feet off my roof (total height about 30').
Pre-amp: integrated 12 dB (which, I think, makes it a HDP-269 ?)
Cabling: all new RG6 (approximately 70' from the antenna to the PVR)
How close are you to the CN tower? Have you considered filters for the strong signals?
Possibly, if you cool down some of the strong signals off the CN tower, your weaker/distant channels will have a better chance of coming in.

According to his TV Fool, MisterP is 0.9 miles from the CN Tower!!!

Can you believe an installer recommended a pre-amp with a gain of 28db?

MisterP's TV Fool report displays a risk of overload on no less than five of the analog stations even without amplfication.

I have been a loyal customer with Rogers cable TV forever. However I am thinking of moving away from them because of the insane monthly fees.

I am living in a condominium at Steele & Yonge (North York, Toronto). I am actively seeking a cheaper alternative with roughly the same services

I really like the following Channels:
Food , Discovery, Space, History, SLICES, CNN, BBC, BNN, AMC, OTN..etc


After 2011 when there will be no more analog signals, would I finally have any real cheap alternatives?

If you're a customer of Rogers or any cable/satellite company, none of the August 2011 changes will apply to you. Analog cable channels will continue to exist into the foreseeable future.

The analog over-the-air signals will be shut off leaving only the digital HD signals. If you're facing south, then you might be able to get up to 30 channels for free over-the-air in digital high definition or digital standard definition.

But you will not get: Food , Discovery, Space, History, SLICES, CNN, BBC, BNN, AMC, OTN, etc.... because they are cable/satellite-only specialty channels.

You will get all of the broadcast channels: CBC, CTV, Global, City, Sun, Omni 1, Omni 2, TVOntario, CHCH, CTS, Radio-Canada, ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS, The CW, MyTVBuffalo, ION, The Country Network, The Cool TV, Universal Sports Network, Retro TV, PBS Think Bright, qubo, ION Life, and some other religious channels.

You could get an antenna and enjoy most of the above channels and then perhaps you'd be able to find some of the shows you like from your cable networks from their websites or perhaps elsewhere on the internet.

We can help you. But you have to decide you're ready to give up those channels. Check out the Toronto Outdoor Antenna thread especially if you're facing south.

Definitely need a filter then- try a couple UVSJs, that will knock down CBLT 5.0 and CFTO 9.0. Also, a directional antenna is in order, not a 4221 or other multi-bays, seems like a yagi is appropriate like the 43XG.

I installed a Winegard HD-7080P VHF/UHF yagi for a friend on a 3 story home located close to Castle Frank station in Toronto but for some reason, I hardly had any digital reception when aimed close to the CN Tower. At first, I thought the balun did not snap in properly so I took it off and checked the metal prongs and they were not bent so I carefully reinstalled it and same thing. I then checked reception on both analog and digital on my portable TV at the roof and analog was very clean but digital remained non-existent so at least I know the balun is making good contact.

I then started to aim the antenna away from the CN tower and I was able to get most Toronto and Buffalo digital stations at about 90 degrees away, most likely getting reflected signal off a tall apartment building in that direction. As the CN tower is not very far from this location, could the current high power VHF signals be overpowering this antenna?

Dr. Sat: Are you using a pre-amp? If so, try it without...

Sounds like the analog UHF's are probably overpowering the tuner.

No preamp, this is with my portable ATSC TV directly connected to the antenna on the roof with a 6 ft. coax. There is LOS to the CN tower with less than 5 KM in distance.

Hi DrSat,

This advice assumes you don't need analog reception.

See if you can get your hands on a UVSJ or two. Plug your antenna into the UHF port and terminate the VHF port, then output from the combined port. You can chain them together if necessary. These will attenuate the high-powered channel 5 and 9 signals off the CN Tower.

Aiming 90 degrees East of the CN Tower makes sense since this is still pretty close to Buffalo and the 90 degree spot will be a null that attenuates those strong VHF's. The CN Tower stuff should come in regardless of how you point the antenna.

Try getting a compass and punching the address into tvfool.com to see where to point for Buffalo - it will be SSE or SE.

Thanks, will try that next time. Hopefully it's VHF and not UHF analog that's causing the issue. Surprisingly enough, regardless of the direction the antenna was aimed, I was unable to receive CITY, CHCH or CTS. CHCH and CTS I can understand but it's sad that CITY-DT doesn't even come in off a chimney mounted yagi antenna on a 3 story home at 5KM from the transmitter when analog CITY comes in clear as a bell!

Dr. Sat,

Could you provide a TV Fool report for your client's house? You'll have to use the exact street address to give an accurate report. The address does not show on the report you will provide.

At this point, my first suspicion would be blocking - not overload.

Castle Frank station is an odd area. Impossible to know the kind of situation you're talking about based on just that description. Some residential areas there have lots of trees and forest. There is a valley with lots of houses in it. Literally from the exact location of Castle Frank station, it is likely you would be blocked from the CN Tower by the St. Jamestown apartment complex maybe only 200 metres away. There has to be about thirty or so 20-Story buildings there. Standing at Castle Frank station, you can't even see the dowtown -- all you see are those apartments.

Which American stations is you client getting? City TV is weak now, but it will get stronger in August, 2011. CHCH might remain a problem if your client is blocked. At least your client has a high-VHF antenna - which might be needed come August for CFTO (CTV) and CHCH if your client is in an area with weak signals.

I have a friend living near Castle Frank in one of said apartment buildings. He got 11 Canadian digital channels and all the main US channels (not ION and not Jamestown TCT). No amps. Combined 4221hd for Toronto and a 4228hd for USA.

Dr. Sat,

I can't think of any need for a low-vhf capable antenna in Toronto other than maybe FM and who needs an antenna for FM?

If a yagi-style combo antenna is desired perhaps a VHF-high + UHF combo antenna such as the Winegard HD7689P would reduce chances of overload from low-vhf analogs and the gain might be greatly increased on the rest of the channel range - potentially avoiding these reception issues.

Hello.

Is anyone having a problem getting CityTV (57.1) in Toronto? I recently purchased a Channel Master 4220HD (mounted outdoors with a clear line of site, facing Lake Ontario, on the 23rd floor of an apartment building in the Bloor/High Park area) — I get about 20–23 channels (most of those listed on Save&Replay — http://overtheair.saveandreplay.com/OTA_Channels_Toronto_GTA.asp), and for the first week or so I was getting CityTV perfectly (one of the strongest signals). Then, all of a sudden, about a week ago, I lost CityTV (the rest of the channels are all fine) and I can't get it back. My digital tuner doesn't even register a blip when I'm on 57.1? Anyone have any idea why this would be?

Thanks,
Kristin.

Theboyk,

The way you describe your location, it would seem you should be getting CityTV. That being said, I have noticed my signal being a bit weaker than ususal for CityTV - though I'm still getting it.

The signal will improve in August when the power gets increased. Keep trying for it! If you have an amp, try turning it down if you can.

Theboyk,

The way you describe your location, it would seem you should be getting CityTV. That being said, I have noticed my signal being a bit weaker than ususal for CityTV - though I'm still getting it.

The signal will improve in August when the power gets increased. Keep trying for it! If you have an amp, try turning it down if you can.
Got CityTV back last night. Didn't change anything, so maybe it was just the weather?

I have a CM4221hd in my attic and using a CM distribution amp

tv fool is: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8d17a492677502

Channels i'm getting tonight
2.1
2.2
2.3
5.1
7.1
8.1
9.1
11.1
17.1
17.2
17.3
21.1
21.2
21.3
23.1
23.2
23.3
25.1
26.1
26.2
26.3
29.1
29.2
33.1
33.2
33.3
36.1
40.1
41.1
49.1
49.2
51.1
51.2
51.3
57.1
64.1
66.1


I usually get 20-23 channels which is awesome, but tonight blew me away.
missing 4.1 now though, but I'm not complaining

Just want to give a shout out to the couple at save and replay who have helped me with some great advice in my3 or 4 visits
:)
Cheers

Hi there. I am trying to set up an OTA system and would like some advice on the best way to address the current problems I am facing.

I am less than 4 miles away from the CN tower, using a CM4221HD (a friend's) I was able to pull in all of the localsquite well (80-90% with the TV located right next to the antenna). However, I would also like to get Buffalo stations, especially PBS. I managed to get NBC but the signal wasn't great.

I live in a house that is subdivided into apartments. It's four stories high so I can get the antenna about 60 feet up on the peak of the roof.
There is one complication because the coax wiring in the house is all home-runned from the cable box on the ground floor. Hence the cable from the antenna would have to run about 50-60 feet to ground level, split (outside) and then run off another 80 feet or so to one dwelling and around 125-150' to the other dwelling (back up the side of the house, through the attic and then down the other side of the house - obviously this was all done in contemplation that TV would be cable) AFAIK everything is fairly new RG-6

My current plan is to get the CM4228 with the Winegard 2870 pre-amp

Is this overkill?

Any other recommendations you have are welcome

Teevor,

Welcome to the forum.

Could you please go to TVFool.com and product a report for your exact address? Once you have it copy the URL and paste it into a message here.

A TVFool report will give us the information we need to give you the best advice we can.

Long story short, though, the height is great - especially if your signal is not blocked by large buildings or trees. Some or all of your wiring issues might be able to be overcome with use of a quality pre-amp - but we need to see the TV Fool report to be sure a pre-amp might not cause more trouble than it helps.

Congrats on your decision to go OTA. If you are renting, you could consider having your landlord pay for a professional installation and wiring job. This would make his place easier to rent.

http://www.tvfool.com/modeling/tmp/8d17/731/44cad67/Radar-Digital.png

Here you go!

Teevor,

Nice looking report.

Whatever you end up doing, things will probably improve for you on Aug 31, 2011 when the analog channels shut off.

In the meantime, if you can try your friend's Channel Master 4221hd again, keep it for now and try it with the pre-amp. Once the pre-amp is set-up, you'll probably start getting more stations. Overload will be a concern so definitely don't aim at the CN tower. I'd start by aiming at WGRZ and then start inching my aim further and further south until hopefully all of your Buffalo channels show up and CHCH in Hamilton, too.

The 4228hd might end up helping. Not because you need the extra gain, but because the 4228hd is moe directional than the 4221hd (narrower beam width). A possible challenge with the pre-amp to get Buffalo will be overload on your analog channels. So having the narrower beam-width 4228hd might allow you to focus your aim more directly on Buffalo. You'll still get everything from Toronto off the side anyway.

So, since you have a free antenna to play with, try all this with your friend's 4221hd and buy a good pre-amp. If results are less than ideal, try a 4228hd.

Make sure you report back. Your results report will help other future readers.

If you're using a pre-amp, your long cable runs will not likely be a problem for you. How many TVs/computers are going to be getting signal from your antenna?

Stampeder's pre-amp chart indicates that your choice of pre-amp is probably a sound choice for your situation. http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=375668&postcount=1

Good luck!