Jacrider, you get exactly what I get in North York with my attic mounted 4221HD.

I think with CHCH, it's a matter of antenna aim. I can get CHCH just fine if I rotate it a bit towards Hamilton, but then I lose some of my Buffalo stations. With it pointed at Buffalo, I'll get CHCH on some days, but sometimes not.

I'd also say try your TV tuner for pulling in CHCH. I have the CM DVR as well, and my toshiba television tuner smokes it.

I ended up aiming my antenna just east of south (if I use Yonge Street as a proxy for south) is straight at Buffalo.
Yonge St is a bit east of south. Hamilton is approximately southwest of Toronto. That's 45 degrees off your aim. If you want CHCH badly enough, consider a rotator or a second antenna.

Hi,

My current setup is a attic-mount CM4221 and a CM7777 pre-amp, but I can only get the 8 Canadian channels, is this normal for my area and setup? Any suggestion to improve my reception?
Here's my TVfool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3db9c925614db15d
Thanks

kikia-

You're pretty far to get the buffalo stations and attic mount further reduces your gain.

Hi,

My current setup is a attic-mount CM4221 and a CM7777 pre-amp, but I can only get the 8 Canadian channels, is this normal for my area and setup? Any suggestion to improve my reception?
Here's my TVfool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3db9c925614db15d
Thanks
Walter Dnes, who posted right above you, is right in the same area as you are and he is able to get basically all of the US stations.

A few years ago I was near your location and also was able to get all of the US stations - although I had to sacrifice reliable CityTV and SunTV reception to do it.

Hi,
Any suggestion to improve my reception?
Thanks
Hi kikia,
1st suggestion is remove the pre-amp. 26 dB of gain facing cntower will give you sever overload unless you have a 2-300 ft cable, or an 8 way splitter.
2nd suggestion is installing a UVSJ splitter used as a filter (terminate the VHF port) use line in and UHF out.
3rd suggestion is only if you need to feed more than 1 tuner, you need a distribution amp, not a high gain pre-amp. CM3412 or 3414, 2 way or 4 way.
4th, try aiming more easterly, buffalo is slightly east on your TV fool report, but pointing more east than you need to will get you away from the cntower analog swamp.
After September 1st, you could try re-aiming, or re-install your pre-amp with a 4 way splitter.
Good Luck!!

Hi,

My current setup is a attic-mount CM4221 and a CM7777 pre-amp, but I can only get the 8 Canadian channels, is this normal for my area and setup? Any suggestion to improve my reception?
Here's my TVfool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3db9c925614db15d
Thanks
I notice there is some high rise on the north-east corner of Dufferin and Steeles. If you live north of the railroad tracks and west of Dufferin these buildings might be blocking the path to some of the US stations. There is also a lot of industrial commercial development south of the railroad which is looks one or two stories high on Google earth. You don't have a tower so your antenna may be blocked by these buildings as well.

The TV fool report also shows 2 edge diffraction which means that you do not have line of sight to the US transmitters due to terrain factors.

I notice there is some high rise on the north-east corner of Dufferin and Steeles. If you live north of the railroad tracks and west of Dufferin these buildings might be blocking the path to some of the US stations.
That is where DHC'er Walter Dnes lives... ask him if he is personally blocking your signal ;-)

My current setup is a attic-mount CM4221 and a CM7777 pre-amp, but I can only get the 8 Canadian channels, is this normal for my area and setup? Any suggestion to improve my reception?
Here's my TVfool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3db9c925614db15d
Thanks
I'm in your area. A few possibilities...
You mentioned attic, so I assume you're in a house. Have you considered mounting the antenna outdoors on the rooftop? Depending on the material in your attic walls, you may be losing a lot of signal. This is especially true for the UHF where most digital TV signals are right now.
Rooftop mounting will also give you extra elevation. I use a small indoor antenna (Silver Sensor) but I'm in a 6th floor condo, approx 55 feet above ground level, which helps.
How clear is your view to the CN Tower? That's where most of Toronto's TV stations have their transmitting antennas. From our area, Grand Island , NY (the Buffalo "antenna farm") is almost exactly in line with the CN Tower.
As mentioned by others, try without the amplifier. It may be overloading your tuner.
Please don't take this one as an insult, I'm just covering the bases, because I don't know how familiar you are with digital TV. Does your TV have an ATSC tuner, or at least are you using an ATSC converter? If CBC shows up as channel "5.1" or "5-1" that's digital. If not, you'll need a converter box, or a new TV, depending on your budget.

Hello.

I'm hoping some of the experts here can recommend the best solution for my reception problems.

I'm in downtown Toronto, just northeast of Queen & Bathurst. Here is my TVFool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dc77a2fc363a30b
which looks pretty good, with line of sight to almost all of the Buffalo stations.

On Monday, I had pro installation of a Channel Master 4221HD and all-new cable runs to a CM 7000PAL DVR. You can imagine my excitement.

Well, excitement turned to disappointment after I did the channel scan on the DVR and it came back with 5 channels (one of which had so much tiling that it was unwatchable). From posts in this forum, I know that the tuner in the 7000PAL is not as good as it should be. When I connected the same cable directly to my television, the situation improved to 10 channels, but still nothing from Buffalo. If I duct-taped a fork to the back of my TV, I'd still get all of the Toronto stations. The 4221HD is mounted on an existing antenna tower, probably about 30 feet off the ground, so I was obviously hoping for more.

Here is the view from my roof:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/678/roofwideview.jpg
Obviously, Toronto stations won't ever be an issue. I'm not in the thick of downtown in amongst the high rise towers, so I didn't think interference would be a problem. However, those taller buildings in the centre of the picture are the CityPlace condos at Spadina and Fort York and they are my prime suspects.
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8932/cityplace.jpg

I went to http://www.xtek.ca/hdtvpointer/ to map my line of sight, and sure enough, my lines to Colden and South Wales, NY run straight through those buildings:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8560/lineofsight.jpg

So, now what? The guys who installed the antenna are suggesting the Winegard Square Shooter. I would have higher hopes for that antenna if I was boxed in by buildings and had lots of reflecting surfaces around to pick up signals from. But as you can see from my rooftop pictures, there's not much taller than me in close proximity. Am I right to be skeptical about the Square Shooter?

I'm wondering if some other solution might be better. A pre-amp maybe? What do you guys think. I've already paid $900 for the antenna, DVR and installation. The Square Shooter would push that figure over $1,000. I know there are no guarantees with OTA reception. But without rock solid reception of the US networks on that DVR, the whole thing just isn't worth it for me.

from Mississauga without a preamp i was getting 5-10 channels only as well. With preamp and shorter cable run i now get 23. Preamp could work but your proximity to the CN tower might cause problems. You might want to find a place which sells a preamp which you can return if not satisfied.

MisterP: I live a bit further north of you at Yonge/Lawrence. In reading your post with less than ideal reception, I compare your set-up to mine.

I have an Antenna's Direct DB8, the same PVR and mine is mounted about 30' up on a mast off my chimney. I replaced all the cabling with new RG8. I use a Channel Master powered 4-way splitter to get my signal throughout the house.

So if I compare to yours, the 8-bay antenna might have more gain than your 4-bay.

My antenna is pointed straight at Buffalo. The signals off the CN Tower are all going to be received, almost regardless of the alignment.

I see the suggestion of the pre-amp. That might also work. Talk to the store where you have purchased everything. They want a successful install, so they might have some potential solutions for you.

On the PVR tuner performance, I have two TV's. One is a three or four year old Panasonic plasma, the other a new Sharp LCD which has the PVR. The older Panasonic tunes more channels than the PVR, but only as the PVR doesn't do analog. I get all the same digital channels on both. My HD Homerun also does all the same digital channels as the PVR and the TV. So I haven't seen a difference in tuner performance.

MisterP,

I re-read your message.

I can't imagine only getting five channels with a tower installation within rock-throwing distance from the CN Tower unless there was something wrong with your set-up. I wonder if there could be a poor connection somewhere down the line or overload.

I have an extra 4221hd that I use in my house sometimes to get TVOntario in analog. My rooftop setup does not get a good signal on TVO because it is directed about 90 degrees away from the CN Tower.

Anyway, with my BASEMENT mounted 4221hd, I can get The CW 23 (WNLO) and PBS WNED when pointed at the CN Tower. Plus I get most of the Canadian stations in digital with a basement antenna.

I can't imagine your location being so bad that my basement 4221hd works better than your rooftop antenna. Both of us are using the same antenna, to boot.

I am also skeptical about the use of a Square Shooter. Is there another knowledgeable and experienced Digital Home OTA Thread member that can explain the pros and cons of a Square Shooter-type antenna vs. a 4221hd? My sense has been that as long as you're willing to live with the size and looks of a four-bay antenna then you're probably better off with it relative to a small and handsome Square Shooter. Is there a situation when the Square Shooter will outperform a four-bay antenna? In MisterP's case, he's got an outdoor rooftop installation. Could a Square Shooter possibly be more appropriate than a Channel Master 4221hd?

Another possibility is overload. Looking at your TV Fool, we see you are less than one mile from the CN Tower and around five analog channels are highlighted in pink indicating risk of overload (dBm power column). Keep in mind that problem will solve itself in August when those analog laser beams shut off. An FM trap might be needed too (cheap). In the meantime one thing you could do to test for overload would be to get a dollar store four-way or even eight-way splitter (non powered) and install it at a convenient location before your tuners. That might antennuate the signal and bring in more channels. It may not be the permanent solution but the results might confirm that you have an overload situation.

Bottom line is there are lots more variables to rule out before you should give up.

It's not a problem. It's a riddle. Don't give up.

Hi folks. Thanks for the suggestions. Here's an update:

I hope I didn't give the impression that my installer left me high and dry. Quite the opposite - they did everything they could with the original installation (aiming, re-aiming several times, replacing cable, joiners, testing, retesting). The owner of the company came to my house last night after work with a Square Shooter in hand (the display unit from his store). After testing with that, we both agreed that it wasn't going to be the answer.

We're going to try a pre-amp which I've ordered and should be installed by early next week.

As he pointed out to me, the CM7000PAL has a dual tuner, which means that there is a splitter built into the box, effectively lowering the signal by 3.5 dB as soon as you plug in the cable. This would account for the difference between my TV tuner and the DVR (the TV tuner locks 10-11 channels and the DVR only 4 or 5). The signal just needs a bit of a boost.

They installed all new cable, but the run is over 80 feet. Between the long cable run and the split at the DVR, the Buffalo signals just don't have a chance. The Winegard 4800 provides a 28 dB gain which should give me what I need.

I'll report back with my final results.

28db gain might be overkill for Buffalo even with the 80ft run and might cause overload problems with the CN Tower only 1.5 kilometers away.

Make sure that whichever pre-amp you order is built to withstand stong signals from nearby transmitters. You'll need the FM trap as well. Take note that the Winegard 4800 does not come with an FM Trap according to the Antenna Chart in this Pre-amp thread in this forum.

It's tricky to figure our your solution since the 80ft run of cable probably does explain your lack of USA reception. At the same time, those strong signals from the CN Tower could well be contributing to your problem as well.

Losing the analog signals in August will help. But you're going to have to work to find the delicate balance where your solution lies.

Best of luck and keep all of us up-to-date. Your case is an interesting one!

Entry to OTA is certainly a little intimidating. Lots of reading...

Apologies if I'm posting in the wrong forum.

I live in Etobicoke (Bloor/East Mall) area (M9B postal code). My TV fool report is at:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dc77a0049c087b6

I live in a single-story bungalow with a chimney in the back of the house (back of the house is at the north end). Some trees nearby with some crowding towards CN tower but nothing major towards Buffalo. I'm planning on securing the antenna to the chimney (estimated height to be 25 ft - dunno if that's a good estimate). Will probably post in the installer thread next looking for an installer.

I also looked at http://www.xtek.ca/hdtvpointer/
and distance to Grand Island is 85km while distance to CN tower is 14km.

Would I be okay with a DB8? I saw some new ones for around $90 + tax and some used ones as well for sale.

thanks in advance,

I'm planning on securing the antenna to the chimney.
can you re-run ur tvfool with the receive antenna at the approximate height of the chimney?

can you re-run ur tvfool with the receive antenna at the approximate height of the chimney? Done (used 25 ft as an estimate). tvfool link in post #1476 should have the antenna height in it now. Thanks for your reply, BTW.

28db gain might be overkill for Buffalo even with the 80ft run and might cause overload problems with the CN Tower only 1.5 kilometers away.

Make sure that whichever pre-amp you order is built to withstand stong signals from nearby transmitters. You'll need the FM trap as well. Take note that the Winegard 4800 does not come with an FM Trap according to the Antenna Chart in this Pre-amp thread in this forum.

Quick update (we're not done yet):

We tried a Winegard 4800 last night and lost every station. We're assuming that it's a faulty unit. With the cable running through the Winegard connector (the thing that looks like a splitter, but which facilitates the power) unpowered, everything was the same. But as soon as we plugged it in, all signals were lost. Signal scans on the TV and PVR came back with zero channels.

They are coming over with a different amp tonight to try again.

Overload would only cause the CN Tower stations to be lost, right?

Overload by a local station causes the pre-amp transistor to go funny - affecting all stations. Or that's the usual understanding, as I understand it.

However, it is conceivable that sometimes the pre-amp transistor continues to work OK but the tuner/TV gets overloaded from the high output of the pre-amp.

If the second of these theories were true, you could receive weak stations by having two separate antenna installations (one pre-amped and one not) and switch between them. But nobody seems to endorse that strategy.