How high is the antenna? Is it outdoors?

Is your 170' magnetic or true?

I mounted it against his chimney. At the back of the house is where his chimney is located north west corner of his house.

The chimney is on his back split of the house so its not very high. The peak of his roof is not very high either. Its a older house.

I would say it bottom of the antenna is no more than 20 - 22' from the ground.

I was able to use a single 12' ladder to get up on his back split and from there used a 6' ladder againist the chimney.

Used a very short pole 5'

Yaamon, 170' (M) is probably about 10' too far. I ran bearing calculations and some of the readings (from my location) are: WGRZ - 150' (T), WUTV - 156' (T) and WKBW - 154' (T). Magnetic reading would add about 10' to these readings.

WGRZ and WKBW are in the Southtowns (S.E. of Buffalo) while WUTV is on Grand Island. The Southtowns are the furthest (around 85 to 90 miles, while the G.I. stns are around 60 miles).

There is enough gain in the side lobes of the 4221 and 4228 to pick up the Toronto locals so there is no real need to aim towards the CN Tower.

intrac using a compass it was jumping around but it was 170 to 180' as reference by how the satellite dishes was pointed.

The compass would jump around depending on where I was standing and all over his back yard too.

So maybe the compass was off it was no more west of 180 for sure.

It depends on which satellites it was aimed at. Evu is aimed at around 190' (T), Dish is aimed at 220' (T) for the 110 satellite and 155' (T)for the 61.5 satellite. Add around 10' for inclination.

Anyway, as long as it works, it really doesn't matter.

Hello all: Just joined this forum and am planning an HDTV OTA install and would appreciate your feedback.
First, a big thanks to all of the great info available here. I spent a good chunk of yesterday going over previous posts and the READ THIS BEFORE POSTING thread (Thanks Stampeder!).
I live in a house just up the road from j2k (Lakeshore and Royal York) so I found his info very useful. From the various maps available, it looks like the back of my house faces Buffalo/ Grand Island. I am lucky in that there is nothing between my house and Lake Ontario. Also, from my calculations, the back of my house is perpendicular to the CN Tower (I can't see it due to various apartment buildings in that direction).

From all of the postings, it would appear that a good choice for me would be a CM4221 mounted outdoors as high as possible perhaps with no rotor required. The logic would be that the 4221 has a wider pattern than the 4228 to pick up all of the Buffalo stations, and the CN Tower stations would come in anyway due to the 90 degree side lobes of the antenna.

On the other hand, if I draw a line from my house to Grand Island, it continues straight on to WGRZ (NBC), so perhaps a CM4228 with its extra gain and directional characteristics would be better?

I like the idea of no rotor as I am also planning to build an OTA PVR.

Finally, I have read about the difficulty of picking up the WB station. Does anyone in the south GTA actually get it?

Thanks in advance.

Etobicoke,the single antenna at Buffalo may work.It depends on how much multi-path reflections you will get with the the Toronto stations.You may have to angle the antenna more toward cn tower.Buffalo will be no problem if you can see the lake from your roof.Wnyo-dt will be moving their transmitter to Grand island ths year with a directional south only pattern.This should put a little better signal into GTA.I currently receive it occationally ,2to3 days week.Their analog is perfect .Our government is the responsible for Wnyo-dt weak signal.

I've read the "read before you post" post and the antenna guide, but I just wanted to clarify before ordering an antenna.

I live at Yonge and Eglinton in a south facing apartment on the 5th floor. There is a building whose end is directly south of me. I get a clear view directly (0º) south to southwest, but it's blocked from south to southeast. I'm 7 km from the CN Tower, which I have a clear view of.

Right now I have a Terk HDTVi indoor antenna which came with my Fusion card. It doesn't seem too bad. I (obviously) have no issues getting any of the CN Tower stations, and when I keep it indoor and pointing just around the building (and toward the CN Tower) I can usually get WNLO and WKBW. If I put the HDTVi on my balcony I can get somewhat recieve WNED and WUTV, with them hovering somewhere around 70%.

I would be satisfied if that was all I could receive, only reliably. My neighbour below me has a sattelite dish mounted on his balcony, so I think I have some freedom to put in something, especially like the Winegard Straight Shooter, which would look very similar. I'm about 55 miles from Grand Island, but the charts and info I read on the Winegard list 50 miles as the maximum. Should that help me enough to make the difference I'm looking for, despite being out of range?

Would it be better to get the amplified SS-2000, or would I risk screwing up the CN Tower stations or damaging my Fusion box, since I'll be pointing the antenna maybe 3 or 4º from directly at it? Or would it be better to err on the conservative side, and since my reception is almost good enough with the indoor antenna being outside maybe I can get away with a small outdoor antenna of some type. Maybe one of those $50 Radio Shack ones or something?

b18c5, my recommendation would be for a Channel Master 4221 on a 5 or 6 foot pole based in a very large flower pot filled with gravel. or some other heavy base. Yaamon should be able to give you a much more accurate expectation, so go through his posts in the GTA-area threads and you'll see what is best.

Thanks for the quick reply and for moving my post to the appropriate thread. I think I have a pretty good idea of what I'm looking for now. I had a look at the 4228, which the dealer had in stock. I was suprised at how small the "bigger" one actually is. I would have no problem mounting the 4221 on my balcony, and since he recommended it, I'm actually considering using the 4228 instead. The prices are pretty good too, so the biggest issue will be the mounting. But even that doesn't seem like much.

Is there any reason not to get the 4228 instead? Could it be overkill for my application? Is it just the size?

I'll post the results as soon as I decide on which one and it's installed!

b18c5 I would also recommend what stampeder said.

The 4221 has twice and angle of coverage and being on the 5th floor helps the signals. :)

With the 4221 being half the size of the 4228 it might be much easier to mount and hide. :)

A 4221 would be my choice it's a great antenna and excellent performance for the size.

b18c5 --If you can, use the 4228 -- it has slightly higher gain and slightly better selectivity. Channel Master lists the range of the 4221 as 45 mi. vs 60 mi. for the 4228.

Some comparisons are here: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

intrac highlights the better range of the CM4228 but Yaamon highlights the wider reception pattern of the CM4221. They are both absolutely correct. I mentioned the CM4221 because of Yaamon's successes in your area but I'm a big fan of the CM4228 for almost any use. Okay, so now what do we do?

I wish we could try both of them on the same day from your specific location just to see which one suits you best. I wish I could say I'll be right over! :D

b18c5 let us know the results of your antenna :)

intrac there is no doubt that the 4228 has a slightly better gain but once you are receiving the hd signals from different lcoations the 4221 will outperform the 4228 especially if you are not using a rotor.

At 30' off axis the 4221 have a good 5db more gain than a 4228.

I have sold many 4221 and 4228 and overall if there is not much difference in signal strength from the two antenna's when they are pointing directly towards the stations. The 4228 has 1 bar more signal as a reference on a Samung 451 receiver.

All the 4221 that I have installed the min signal I have gotten using a Samsung 451 and no preamp is 8 bars on Nbc and Fox. With the Sony tv that has the built in atsc tuners 93 to 98% on all stations.

From that experience there is no advantage using a larger 4228 in a condo balcony setup especially when stealth size maybe a factor.

Thanks Yaamon for the antenna! That worked out really well, and it actually fit in the car. :)

I'm definitely very happy with the 4221. I can't give a full report on it yet, since it isn't permanently mounted yet, but things are looking really good. I put it on top of my air conditioner and pointed it approximately in the same direction as my Terk, and as soon as I plugged it in I got a 10% increase in signal across the board. Brilliant. It does exactly what I wanted before I got it, but...

I want more. :) Now that it's possible to get WNED and WUTV I want to get the other Buffalo stations. Oh god. It doesn't end, does it? I suspected this would happen. I'm sure I'll be okay with this for now, but I don't think I'm going away any time soon. Depending on how bad this looks from the outside when I mount it, I might have to try the 4228 next. ;)

I was thinking about trying to record analogue broadcasts until CFTO fixes their PSIP info so I can use it in MCE and until Omni and Global are online. But when I try channel 9 I get some serious... I guess it would be ghosting? I'll post a screen cap if it's possible. It's strange, because I also get reception on channel 5, and from what I've read this antenna should have no reception at all in the lower VHF range. Could it be because I'm too close to the CN Tower? I'm sure I could pick up any VHF stations from the CN Tower with a whip antenna tucked away in the corner of the room. If I wanted to do that what would I do? Would I do a high pass filter to get rid of any VHF signals coming from the 4221, a low pass filter for the whip and a combiner for them both? Am I on the right track?

Thanks, this forum has been a super help!

b18c5 the 4221 should easily get all the stations from Buffalo.

The problem is that you need to point the antenna a bit more towards south east. That buliding blocking that view might be the problem. :(

Point the antenna as south as you can and rescan for the Buffalo channels.

On the subject about receiving Cbc if its the HD signal you are fine. :) Cbc is actually broadcasted at Uhf frequency 20 and displayed as Chan 5.

I dont think a 4228 will pull in any better than the 4221 on your setup. If you have you original box you can return and try the 4228 but I dont think it will make a difference.

There is a vhf filter that you can buy at Tinlee and its downtown if you think you have a problem with the lower Vhf frequency.

Cfto is another story on my Ati software it does not work. But using Watch HDTV Cfto comes in fine. :) Maybe you can try that software.

Hey Yaamon:

Not sure if you remember me, but I bought a 4221 from you back in mid February 2006 (as well a a few diplexers). I also asked you a bunch of questions regarding switches/diplexers.

Anyways, I'm having trouble receiving CHCH11 (come as a scrambled picture) and all Buffalo stations (nothing but snow). Antenna is pointed south/southeast, mounted on my roof which has a clear south view (Dufferin/Steeles area). I'll try to post a pic soon.

Any suggestions on what I can do in the meantime?

-DrP37

drp37 -- chch11 isn't HD. Are you talking about analog or digital?

What is your HD set? Is it a card, STB, or set?

Hi first thing I would try and remove the diplexers and see if that helps.

Check the cable connectors. Make sure that they are crimped right and you did not strip away off the braided ground wire ?

I don't understand are you trying to pickup up analog CHCH chan 11 from with this antenna ? The 4221 is rated for Uhf chan 14 to 69.

For reception the antenna needs to be pointed about 160-175' on a compass.

Are you able to pickup any Toronto local stations. If not my guess would be the cable connectors?

Please feel free to call for more detailed info.

Intrac: Set is a Sony KDF-60XBR950. Trying to get analog CHCH11, but from Yaamon's post, I guess I won't be able to with the 4221...I didn't realize that.

Yaamon: I get all analog and digital Toronto stations without problems. Digital picture quality is much better and noticable when compared to digital cable. Only problem is with the Buffalo stations; can't get any!

Thanks for your help!