: ON - City of Toronto Metro Area <OUTDOOR Antennas Only> - OTA
2008-05-26, 08:28 PM
i bought a CM 4228 from Yaamon to see if i could bring up my reception from the not so great results i was getting with the CM 4221... my location is near the woodbine race track... here are my results... the bold results are with the CM 4228 while the regular results are with the CM 4221
2 - NBC - 60% - 65%
4 - CBS - 5% - ~60% +/-
5 - CBC - 95% - 95%
7 - ABC - 50% - 70%
9 - CTV - 90% - 0-60% unstable
17 - PBS - 30% - 65%
23 - CW - 65% - 75%
25 - CBCF - 90% - 95%
29 - FOX - 60% - 75%
49 - MyTV - 5% - ~55% +/-
57 - City - 85% - 90%
65 - Global - 85% - 97%
66 - Sun - 85% - 95%
so i am still far from perfect but at least its better now... PBS is solid now and CBS and MyTV are usually watchable.. i lost CTV however... i dont care too much about that channel but since this antenna is so directional i might not be able to move it any more towards the cn tower without impacting buffalo reception
2008-05-26, 09:58 PM
Seal36, from the beaches, you need to point west to cn tower for toronto stations and south to buffalo for the US stations.Hi Tom. I am also in the beaches and am new to OTA. I bought a - get this - Ricotron 3000 a couple of years ago as a lark, at Active Electronics. Now that I have a HD set and am over the free Rogers HD box promo, I have cut the cord to Rogers. With my Ricotron, I get CBC, CTV, City, the three PBS stations, CHCH most of the time and get the buffalo channels periodically. The antenna is not very high right now as I am a total chicken &*it when it comes to height. However, my b-in-law is a Rogers installer so I have help to call on.
Before I call in the troops though I want to choose my equipment (think I'll drop the Ricotron) and was looking at the 4228 in the double configuration.
Hey Seal, what did you go with? I am between Coxwell and Woodbine, north of Gerard.
2008-05-27, 03:39 AM
i bought my 4228 3 years ago for 140. i'm sure you can do a lot better.
they go for 100. less online, but shipping makes it more.
Yes, i'm still pretty happy with it. I wish i had 2 of them, rather than one and the 4221
2008-05-29, 02:35 PM
I have installed an antenna and get great reception. I am down by the lake near bottom of 427. There seems to be a bit of a choice between perfect Buffalo/Rochester reception (due south) and perfect CN tower reception (due east). Due east and I lose Rochester and ABC. Due South and I lose global etc. In the middle is kind of crappy.
I tried an amplifier without any difference. I would like to try another antenna.
Tenstu mentions combining the signal. What is the recommended device?
Thanks in advance
2008-05-29, 07:56 PM
imcintyre, you can often get away with using a reversed splitter as a combiner of two antennas, but there is more to it than that. Here's the thread to read through and ask any questions about combining antennas:
El Gran Chico
2008-05-30, 12:11 PM
There seems to be a bit of a choice between perfect Buffalo/Rochester reception (due south) and perfect CN tower reception (due east). Due east and I lose Rochester and ABC. Due South and I lose global etc. In the middle is kind of crappy.
I tried an amplifier without any difference. I would like to try another antenna.imcintyre, you are in a situation much like me - good location to receive signals from various directions, just not all of them simultaneously.
I've been experimenting with my CM 4221 ever since CHCH-DT started to get this just right. I'm close, but not perfect, especially when conditions are less than optimal (wind is my biggest foe).
Running out of ideas, I built a Single Bay Gray Hoverman antenna. It has wildly exceeded my expectations. So much so, I may be retiring my CM 4221 (which is an excellent product).
2008-06-10, 11:18 PM
Channel Master 4221
10' 1 1/4" conduit mast, approximately 25' above the ground.
If anything pointed 1degree towards the ground, and right in line with a honey suckle tree which is about 25' away.
15' coax to an inline preamp, then about 25' coax to the tuner
I aimed it based on WIBV channel 4 and channel 17, 4 was more critical, and inside of what 17 wanted. Sorry I do not have a compass bearing (yet).
WGRZ 2-1 & 2-2
WNED 17-1 , 2 , 3
WUTV 29-1, 29-2 (same content)
OMNI 2 44-1
WNYO 49-1, 49-2 (same content)
omni 1 64-1
El Gran Chico
2008-06-11, 12:46 AM
Pdr1966, 65 is Global (someday it will remap to 41.1 when the PSIP gets fixed :( ). Your results are pretty much identical to mine (I'm not terribly far way from you) now that my antenna has swung eastward to get Omni1 (mine points at about 100 degrees).
When it points a bit more west, I get CHCH on 11.1, but that puts the weaker Toronto stations at high risk of dropout. I'm still working on a solution to get CHCH and all the stations you listed simultaneously.
2008-07-16, 05:27 PM
Update to Greenwood and Dundas East
1) I went ahead and punched a hole in the 2nd story ceiling (hurray, now I have a drywalling job to finish :P ) and moved one Silver Sensor antenna there. What an improvement! Much more reliable signal. I even got CHCH (18-1) briefly until...
2) I wasn't satisfied (wanted US channels too!) -- I discovered that if I took a SS and leaned it up against a 2nd story front window (facing east), I could pick up a few more US channels! So I took a second SS that I had and put them together in the "attic" space using a splitter. SS #1 is pointed towards the CN tower, SS #2 is pointing south. I now can get US channel 23 reliably but I lost 18 and no other US channels. Boo.
3) I bought a 4221 clone and will try to replace one of the SS with the clone. (I didn't knock out a very large hole in the ceiling, it's going to be a very tight fit!) I still have to figure out how I'm going to mount it... It's pretty yucky up there.
Note #1: I did look into buying a CM 4221 and having someone install it on the chimney etc. Cost was far more than I was willing to pay.
Note #2: There's no electrical service in the attic space and I'm not keen on doing any electric work right now so I'm not considering using a pre-amp.
Note #3: Eventually I'm going to have to split the signal and run cable to a second TV.
2008-07-16, 06:10 PM
Note #2: There's no electrical service in the attic space and I'm not keen on doing any electric work right now so I'm not considering using a pre-amp.Don't worry about that - a preamp gets its power sent up the coaxial cable from wherever on that line you want to put its power supply (usually behind your TV) so you don't need electricity up there.
2008-07-17, 02:12 PM
I got fed up with only half of what I wanted being good (the family was aksing for Robbers cable back) so I was desiring another antenna. Fortune Direct has a Digiwave antenna for $30 and I figured I couldn't go too far wrong.
I put it on my old antenna mast and pointed the digiwave at at cn tower and the channel master directly south, basically at 90 degrees to one another. I am reasonably happy with the results. I will go onto google earth and get the correct direction and see what's up but I figured 90 degrees was best setup to start with.
I don't have power %'s on my tv but here is what I get
17-1,2,3 Public Broadcasting
29-1,2 WUTV - FOX
36-1 CTS - Christian bs
66-1 CKXT SUN
At night I have been able to get several more channels from Rochester but they are essentially identical to those from Buffalo. :D
2008-07-17, 04:36 PM
Great results. Did you combine the signals or do you have 2 separate coaxial cables running to your TV/tuner?
2008-07-17, 07:21 PM
I have an old antenna mast with three vertical legs and a centre post with an old 300 ohm antenna on top. I'm too wimpy to climb to the top so I went as high as I could , past the roof, and put one on each leg. I used a 25 coax cable to each one and a splitter/combiner outside the house to the t.v which has a built in astc tuner.
2008-07-20, 07:36 PM
Total newbie to the OTA thing, cut the cord w Rogers and gave my 8300HD away. Read a lot of the topics and I am incredibly grateful to the time and effort all of you put into providing info and advice.
I get decent indoor HD reception w an antennae facing S through a 2nd floor window and a 50ft r6 cable attached to my Panny PZ700.
I just want to verify that using the 4228 would get me the best results if I were to install on my roof. Woodbine/Danforth and fairly clear view S from the roof.
Would this antennae get me the most HD channels (CAN & US) possible for my location and be a solid signal (except for major weather). The antennae chart seems to indicate that.
I also thought I read that it could bring in solid FM to my receiver.
I really just want to install it and run the line into my house and be done with it. Are there other issues (besides some major storm knocking the antennae off-line) that I should be aware of. I realize a secure mount and cable runs need to be considered. I just don't want to find that my signals come and go (especially the HD from the US). It would be reassuring if I knew those signals usually are as solid as my CBC and CTV (or at least close enough).
Sorry if this is slightly longer than intended. I just want to finalize and get it done. Thanks again for reading.
El Gran Chico
2008-07-21, 12:53 PM
I just want to verify that using the 4228 would get me the best results if I were to install on my roof
An antenna will always work better outside than inside.
Would this antennae get me the most HD channels (CAN & US) possible for my location and be a solid signal
Actually it might be overkill, a 4221 (4 bay) might be sufficient (it is for me). The only question might be - can you get everything you want most of the time from a stationery placement. For me, the answer was no. It worked for me under good conditions. I ended up getting a rotator for less than optimal days (and am quite happy with it!).
Are there other issues (besides some major storm knocking the antennae off-line) that I should be aware of
Make sure it is properly grounded. You may want to invest in a pre-amp if your results are less than what you expect. Good luck! Hope this helps.
2008-07-21, 08:52 PM
Pawson, I have a 4228 on a rotor and it does a great job on the FM stations and it goes without saying that the TV reception is fine. I'm across the lake in St. Catharines.
2008-07-22, 11:56 AM
I too have a 4228 on a rotor and receive all the HD channels from Toronto, Buffalo (including 49) and Hamilton just fine with no preamp and a long cable run through a passive splitter. I doubt if a preamp would do you any good.
From Etobicoke, I can aim the antenna "in between" Buffalo and the CN Tower and get most of the channels without moving the rotor. From Woodbine & Danforth you should be OK with a stationary mount, or perhaps the 4221 would work better since it has a broader pattern.
2008-07-22, 02:31 PM
Thanks for the extra info. I would prefer not to have a pre-amp and not to install a rotor. I believe my cable run s/b <50', so I assume no pre-amp is needed for the signal.
I guess I am hoping that I should be fine for a stationary mount. Does someone know based on my location if that is the case?
Would it be a real mess if I needed to add the rotor or the pre-amp later?
Lastly, based on PnnyPnchr's comment, would I gain something using the 4221 vs. the 4228? I read a lot of posts, but I am still not exactly sure of the differences compared to each other.
Once again I appreciate the time and effort of all involved.
El Gran Chico
2008-07-22, 05:51 PM
Pawson, I estimate your location to be close to 43.686 North, 79.314 West. Plugging these co-ordinates into tvfool shows the angle to the Toronto transmitters about 231 degrees, Hamilton at 215 degrees, and the Buffalo transmitters from 151 to 157 degrees.
So you have about an 80 degree angle to deal with. Aiming somewhere around 191 degrees (that's 11 degrees west of due South) will give about 40 degrees each way. With my CM 4221, I have no problem getting stations from any of the 3 locations aiming 40 degrees away except under bad weather.
But as PnnyPnchr mentions, the 4221 has a broader beam than a 4228, ie. 40 degrees may be too much for a 4228 (then again, it could be fine - we'd a 4228 owner to comment on this), in which case getting Toronto and Buffalo simultaneously from a stationary mount isn't going to work.
Would it be a real mess if I needed to add the rotor or the pre-amp later?
I added my pre-amp and rotor later. Actually, I'd recommend you start without and see how it works - you may be just fine without them.
2008-07-22, 06:37 PM
The beamwidth of the 4228 is about 15 degrees so you may not be able to get all the channels without using a rotator (rotor).
The 4221 has a beamwidth of about 45 degrees. That is what I use and by aiming roughly ESE from my location I can receive both Toronto and Buffalo channels with good signal strength.