My personal preference would be 4700 (for Etobicoke). I bought from Richard in NY before (the guy who is selling on ebay) and he is a trustworthy seller.

i found a 7775 at xtek which is in toronto and its $92.. 26db might be too much though.... i wonder if they have a return policy

Hi Eliminator, I am assuming your ATSC tuner is in the TV?

I am in Etobicoke as well. I got both my 4221 and preamp from Yaamon.
I think it was the 4700. Now I have long cable runs... so I am surprised that you are not getting such great results with your setup.

By the way... a memeber here posted a link to tvfool dot com I found that useful for information about point and what channels to expect(sort of)
For us canadians you need lat & long coordiantes you can that from google maps.

Hard to say about the 4228. I have the 4221 and see no advantage for me with a 4228... but everyones setup and expectations are different.

Regards
Teenie

yea my tv has a built in tuner... i dont have a preamp yet... im still waiting on yaamon to let me know on his return policy... with xtek aparently you have to pay 20% if you want to return it which is not that bad...

i just tried a CM 7778 preamp from Yaamon... its much worse than without... i lose every buffalo station completely and almost all toronto channels are gone :(... im back to no amplifier now

Eliminator, I recently had a CM-4228 installed, no pre-amp, and I get all the channels - Buffalo (including 49-1), Hamilton, and Toronto. It has about 80' of RG6 and goes through 1 splitter as well. Of course, it helps that I have a 35' tower and a rotor. If aimed somewhat south (155 degrees) it picks up nearly everything on a good day. Channels 2,4,7 sometimes needs 170 deg to come in consistently.

I'm very happy with the 4228 :D

Hi all, I'm new to this, so I'm looking for some good opinions.

Here is my setup:

- 3rd floor East facing balcony at Bloor/Spadina, with a direct view of the CN Tower
- Antra 4-Bay Antenna mounted to look directly South at the CN Tower
- Hisense ATSC Receiver
- 80' antenna run from balcony to receiver, with a 25db cable amplifier halfway.

When I scan for channels, I pick up about 7-8 strong signals, but quite a few of them are off the air regularly, or the receiver asks me to check the antenna.

Off the top of my head, the channels I get are Global, CityTV, SunTV, WNLO, CHCH, and a few others.

I don't really want to mount my antenna outside of the balcony, as my building may complain. Any suggestions for a better antenna or amplifer? If someone lives nearby or is in a similar geographic situation, what channels do you get?

Just want to pick up a few more local channels, and a few U.S. stations if possible.

Take a look and you should get your answers.

Also you can search since there are lots of existing threads regarding antenna's.

- Antra 4-Bay Antenna mounted to look directly South at the CN Tower
Spadina is not due north/south. It heads approx 160 degrees. To get the most Buffalo stations you should be aiming straight down Spadina, at the Rogers Centre and CN Tower.

- 80' antenna run from balcony to receiver, with a 25db cable amplifier halfway.

When I scan for channels, I pick up about 7-8 strong signals, but quite a few of them are off the air regularly, or the receiver asks me to check the antenna.

Do whatever you can to shorten the cable run. Move the antenna to a closer south-facing window, and/or move the TV closer to the antenna
Try to make the run just one cable. The losses at a join can be significant.
Given how close you are to the transmitter farm on the CN Tower, you do NOT, repeat NOT want an amp at all. All you'll accomplish is overloading your tuner.
I'm on the 6th floor of a condo at Dufferin+Steeles. Just like you, I originally tried an outdoor antenna (CM4221) indoors. I was shocked to find that a dinky little Zenith Silver Sensor actually gave better results, especially without the amp.. Of course, with a small indoor antenna, you can move it around to find the "sweet spot" for best reception. And the place also looks a lot more presentable without a monstrosity in the kitchen window:p.


To summarize... get a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna (the version WITHOUT the amp), shorten the cable run, make it one cable, and give away your amp.

Silver Sensors are hard to find in Toronto. There's a clearance outfit near York University, with a website http://warepark.com
search for "ZHDTV1" (without the quotes). Note that these guys sell "previously opened packages". If you want a new unit try http://store.sensuz.com/ and search "HDTVi" (without the quotes). This is a clone of the Silver Sensor, and is also reputed to be good.

I was about to write a post about how bad my reception was on CFTO tonight, but I went out and looked at my antenna and found the downlead had protruded slightly in front of the lowest bowtie on my CM 4221. I didn't think that was good so I put it back in the proper place.

When I got back to my tv, CFTO was solid! Was the misplaced downlead the cause of the reception problem, or is this just a red herring maybe a slight nudge I gave it the real reason the reception improved?

Thanks!

We're located in the (south) east end of Toronto, near Greenwood and Dundas East.

I've been using a silver sensor-type antenna on the ground floor and can get CITY, CTV, Global, etc. and sometimes 1 US station (might be WNLO).

I'm interested in possibly getting a CM4221 (or more likely a clone -- easier for me to go pick up)... And I would like to try and punch a hole in the 2nd story ceiling and mount it in the inside space where the roof peaks (a bit like a mini-attic). I'd consider with going with a CM4228 but the space is really small and I have a feeling that I won't be able to fit a large antenna in, not even sure if a CM4221 will fit, but it might.

An indoor mount is being considered as I can do it myself (no ladder means I'd have to get a pro to do an outdoor mount and pay more $$$). ;)

Does anyone have any suggestions for improvement on my plan? Good? Bad? Advice?

Does anyone have any suggestions for improvement on my plan? Good? Bad? Advice?
The 4228 is at the top of the antenna chart for a reason.
Outdoor will give you better reception than attic.

It all depends on what you expect.
Do you want some of the available channels some of the time.
Do you want most of the available chanels some time.
Or, do you want all of the available channels most of the time?

I wanted, expected, All the avalable channels, All the time, but i'm not quite there yet.

Raven, to add to Tom's good points, I just completed help a relative install a 4221 in his attic. He is pretty happy with his results. For him, the Toronto and Hamilton stations were must haves, and he's got them solidly. The Buffalo stations were nice to have(s). He gets the Grand Island Stations most of the time, South Buffalo stations some of the time.

In contrast, I live a couple km away and with an outdoor CM4221, I get all of Toronto, Hamilton, Buffalo just about all the time.

I think for many people a CM4228 is just too big to get into an attic. Hope this helps.

Hello everyone;
I live in Toronto, nearby Ossington & Dupont intersection.
I want to go OTA for TV and FM (for now, with HDTV in the future). My objectives are:
a) To receive FM radio, and very important; to recover WNED FM from Buffalo, that my CATV no longer provides (at their basic rate).
b) To take advantage of this opportunity and get OTA TV (even in analog). I do not want to make a full switch to UHF signals, because one of the stations I am very interested in (TVO) doesn’t transmit (yet) in HDTV.
c) To take advantage of the installing and get an HDTV antenna to get those stations my CATV doesn’t provide (at the basic rate); even if I will see them at the analog resolution of my current TV receiver. And prepare for when all stations switch to HDTV few years down the road.

Coordinates of interest (from Google Earth):
HOME: Ossington & Dupont, Toronto, ON, Canada
LATITUDE 43°40'11.51"N
LONGITUDE 79°25'34.77"W

CN Tower, Toronto, ON, Canada
LATITUDE 43°38'30.60"N
LONGITUDE 79°23'14.23"W
DISTANCE TO HOME (measured with Google Earth) = 4.5 KM

WNED TV Antenna in Grand Island, Buffalo.
LATITUDE 43° 1'38.96"N
LONGITUDE 78°55'54.29"W
DISTANCE TO HOME (measured with Google Earth) = 82 KM

From the excellent explanations provided in this site, I have (somehow) assembled a “tentative setup” which I want to submit for your consideration, comments and (of course), correction(s):
a) For starters; I want to avoid the rotor. Given my interests indicated above, and the very similar alignment of my house, the CN Tower, and WNED in Grand island (please note the fairly close latitude values), I believe that it might be possible.
b) I would like to mount a mast in the chimney of my house; having the following:
CM 4221 (or Delhi-Wade 4BT-1483) for UHF, and
Delhi-Wade VIP305SR for VHF + FM.
I will appreciate your confirmation/correction that I will need a diplexer to add the output from both antennas. If so; where should it be mounted? At the mast of after the cable?
Also, as my receiver is analog, will I need a STB to “translate” UHF signals to my analog receiver? Is this a correct understanding?
I am fully aware of the loss in image quality this will imply.
If STB needed, would the DTB-H260 HDTV tuner be the correct selection? I understand that its image processing capabilities (1018i) exceed what I will be able to notice with my receiver but at this time (until I switch receivers, years down the road), what I intend to do is to satisfy immediate objectives; albeit still prepare for future ones.

Last but not least: I came to my mind to get a single CM 4228 and try to use its “collateral” VHF & FM capturing features, but I get a feeling that it might entail a sort of gambling.

I promise to submit to this forum the results of reception, either with the above indicated setup, or the one I finally end adopting.

Thanks to all in advance.

DanielR

a) To receive FM radio, and very important; to recover WNED FM from Buffalo, that my CATV no longer provides (at their basic rate).
b) To take advantage of this opportunity and get OTA TV (even in analog). I do not want to make a full switch to UHF signals, because one of the stations I am very interested in (TVO) doesn’t transmit (yet) in HDTV.

While TVO does not broadcast digitally over the air, it is still on UHF (channel 19) from the CN Tower.


c) To take advantage of the installing and get an HDTV antenna to get those stations my CATV doesn’t provide (at the basic rate); even if I will see them at the analog resolution of my current TV receiver. And prepare for when all stations switch to HDTV few years down the road.



For these purposes, a good UHF antenna will suffice. While a VHF antenna way get you 2, 4, and 7 from Buffalo, these stations will disappear in 8 months.
For 9 and 11, a 4228 is probably enough (although you may have some ghosting).
For WNED, maybe an FM-only antenna is a better idea.

Hi DanielR, Welcome! A couple of things:

I do not want to make a full switch to UHF signals, because one of the stations I am very interested in (TVO) doesn’t transmit (yet) in HDTV

TVO transmits analog in UHF in our area, so you do want UHF for now and the future.

Also, as my receiver is analog, will I need a STB to “translate” UHF signals to my analog receiver?

You will need a STB to translate DIGITAL UHF signals to your analog receiver. You will get analog UHF stations (like TVO) without a STB.

(I think you have digital and UHF confused - UHF refers to a range of frequencies and can have either digital or analog transmissions over them).

If STB needed, would the DTB-H260 HDTV tuner be the correct selection?

It could be. Note that the DTB-H260F is really only useful if you connect it using component video or higher since the on-screen display doesn't work over s-video or component. If you are going to connect using s-video or component, I'd recommend the SIR-T451 or a newer converter box like the Zenith DTT900 or the Insignia NS-DXA1.

Hope this helps. :)

Last but not least: I came to my mind to get a single CM 4228 and try to use its “collateral” VHF & FM capturing features, but I get a feeling that it might entail a sort of gambling.
DanielR
Hi Daniel,
I use a 4228 to get ALL buffalo DTV and FM. WNED-FM comes in perfect on 2 FM tuners.
All I did was use a very simple UHF/VHF splitter since i only use UHF to the 3 DTV tuners i've got.

Whatever you do, DO NOT GET THE AMPLIFIED VERSIONS. I'm near Dufferin+Steeles, and amplifiers overload my tuner. Downtown, closer to the CN Tower, it'll be even worse.

ARGH!?! Walter, I think I know where you live, which means I'm maybe 500 metres from you. I'm at the corner of Glen Shields (north) and Dufferin. Right now I have a 4228 with 7777preamp. I'm just not getting the signals that you are. I'm planning on putting a 40ft tower up in a month. But my big question now is do I use a preamp or not?

I know many of you will say, well try it on and off, but I'm going to have a hard enough time climbing 40ft up and down with my knees shaking while wearing a pair of Depends underwear.

Can anyone give a suggestion on a 40ft, 4228, rotor setup at my location? Should I put the preamp in it and then get a trap filter? How do I know if I need a trap filter and at which freq? Oh, man there are soooo many variables to this, best is test and see, but I just want to keep that to a minimum because of the tower...

p.s. I will be splitting the cable 4-ways (2 to HD capture card, 2 to two separate TVs)

Should I put the preamp in it and then get a trap filter? How do I know if I need a trap filter and at which freq?
[...deletia...]
p.s. I will be splitting the cable 4-ways (2 to HD capture card, 2 to two separate TVs)In your (outdoor) case, you're looking at line loss from at least 50 feet of coax, plus a minimum 6 db attenuation due to the 4-way splitter. A 5 or 10 db amp might be appropriate.

One other item that will affect me slightly, but hopefully not you. Vinnie Zuchini's restaurant (under the red X in the image) is due to be demolished, and replaced with a 6-storey senior-citizens-luxury-rental complex. Fortunately, I'm at the extreme southeast corner of my building (red arrow in image), so I'll still have a clear view towards the CN Tower and Grand Island. The new building may block the Hamilton stations, but I don't watch either of them. Note that I had to rotate the image slightly to fit everything into the max image limits of this forum. Dufferin is actually at approx 160 degrees, rather than due south.

Hi raven_hsw (re: Post #691) I live at Queen and Leslie, about 1/2 Km from you.

I use an indoor, amplified, pizza dish antenna [about 24 inch diameter]from Radio Shack. It is in my attic, third floor, with a 30 foot cable to my main tv. I recently got a digital tv, and have been delighted with the improvement in picture quality. The tv is an Electrohome from Canadian Tire, nothing special, but is fine for my needs.
The digital image, even in SD, is much better than analogue. The image at 720p or 1080i is excellent.

The difficulty with my analogue image is partly because of ghosting with the CN Tower antennas, and partly because the Buffalo stations signals had a bit of snow due to low strength. I use a splitter to send a signal to an analogue tv in another room, and am continually surprised by how much better the ATSC quality is compared to the NTSC.

With this setup, I get dependable digital signals for CBC [english and french], CFTO, CITY, Global, OMNI [both] and WNED [three], and two buffalo stations on 23 and 29. TVO and 69 are dependable, but still analogue. With good conditions I get CHCH, ABC and CBS.
My favourite stations are TVO, PBS, CBC, CITY and CFTO, so I am happy.

I have been considering getting a 4221 [or similar], but I'm not sure the improvement is sufficient to warrant the cost and time. I think the only major improvement I'd probably [hopefully] get would be that WNED would be dependable during heavy rainstorms, and I'd get CHCH, ABC, CBS and NBC dependably, and maybe,maybe get one or two other buffalo stations.

If you wish to try out my pizza dish and determine if such an antenna would suit your needs, contact me. I can live without tv for a day [and I should probably do it more often!].

If anyone has a 4221 they would like to lend to me for a day or two, please PM me

Harvey