No problem, I'm just enjoying the experiments.

I tried 1/4 inch mesh... no difference, so I'll stay with 1/2 inch mesh. I braced more to handle the floppiness as suggested.
In a few weeks, I might split the 2 arrays and make them 8 vertical rather than the side by side 4's.
That would reduce the amount of shielding needed.

Signal strengths by channel (out of 10) on my Samsung 260:
2 5
4 7
5 6
7 7
9 8
17 7
23 8
25 7
29 7
35 10
41 10
49 5
57 5
66 10

Changing the shape of your CM4228 has far reaching consequences, just so you know. Stacking 2 x CM4221s (which is really what you'd end up with) would make a less horizontally directional antenna, meaning that the side lobes would be even bigger and hungrier than the CM4228s! :eek:

I'm helping a relative get installed on OTA in the Bloor / Royal York area in Etobicoke. He has a CM 4221 and wants to do an attic install (I know... putting on the chimney will get better results...).

Anyway, the one station that he really wants is PBS. I used Google Earth to draw a line from his house to the WNED transmitter on Grand Island and found that a few kilometers downrange, it runs very close to the Marina Del Rey condo complex on the lakeshore. I did notice his elevation is about 120 feet above the base of the condos to mitigate a bit against the height of the condo towers.

So ... is this something that should lower his expectations of receiving WNED over the air?

PBS is one of the easiest Buffalo stations to pick up in GTA.

An obstruction that far away won't matter much. The grand island station you will have problems with is FOX. And with an attic install, you'll only get NBC at the very best of times.

So I was checking to see if I could see any more of CHCH-DT testing last night (on the Sony TV) and I managed to tune to Analog 18 in the process. I noticed that I get a VERY snowy "picture" and audio which is not too garbled to make out. I checked and it seems that it's some sort of bleed-over from TVO on Analog 19.

So I have to wonder, is this interference going to hurt my chances of getting a reliable signal/lock from CHCH-DT?

As they are back on the air (hooray!), right now, the TV is reporting a reliable "lock" but my SNR jumps around between 0 and 14dB and a level of 0/100. I get picture and sound on a very patchy basis.

In contrast, CITS, from Hamilton comes in loud and clear with my current setup with 82/100 and an SNR of 29dB.

Anyone in North York getting a reliable signal from CHCH-DT?

Anyone else seeing TVO bleed over into Analog 18 on their tuners?

scruffy416, that's an unfortunate local situation you have there.

NTSC channels are bad for adjacent channel interference, but ATSC is almost completely free of it. That doesn't help in your case because TVO is still analogue, so you might need to get a channel 19 notch filter, which will attenuate or even cut out the offending channel as you need, depending on which one you purchase. You can read about the notch filter solution in this thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=42426

So I have to wonder, is this interference going to hurt my chances of getting a reliable signal/lock from CHCH-DT?

As they are back on the air (hooray!), right now, the TV is reporting a reliable "lock" but my SNR jumps around between 0 and 14dB and a level of 0/100. I get picture and sound on a very patchy basis.

In contrast, CITS, from Hamilton comes in loud and clear with my current setup with 82/100 and an SNR of 29dB.

Anyone in North York getting a reliable signal from CHCH-DT?

Anyone else seeing TVO bleed over into Analog 18 on their tuners?
I'm at Dufferin+Steeles, with a similar line-of-sight to you; the CN Tower is right between me and Grand Island. I get 4 or 5 Toronto analogues bleeding into the adjacent analogue, even with a relatively new Panasonic TH-50PX75U. Rotating the antenna takes care of the 19/18 interference problem for me. Assuming you have your antenna pointed at Buffalo, can you rotate it 60 degrees clockwise; i.e. point it at Hamilton? Analogue 19 on the main lobe will overpower digital 18 on a side lobe, but probably not visa versa.

I beleive their is a TVO repeater operating on ch-18 in either the London or Kitchener area, its not bleed from ch-19 in Toronto

PBS is one of the easiest Buffalo stations to pick up in GTA.

An obstruction that far away won't matter much. The grand island station you will have problems with is FOX. And with an attic install, you'll only get NBC at the very best of times.
Thanks Tom. My relative has it installed now with mixed results. He gets frequent drop outs on PBS. No matter where he points the CM 4221, he can't get it stable.

I starting to wonder if it's his tuner - it's a Samsung SIR-T451, Would moving up to a later generation chip yield a materially better result? I myself have observed marginal performance impovements by my DTB-H260F over the Samsung SIR-T451, but maybe with an attic install, maybe it will be more substantial?!?

I running out of ideas how to improve his signal (other than trying to convince him to "take it outside" :-) ).

Would a Channel Master 4228 help in my case? I currently have a 4221 I bought from Yaamon a while ago and am getting abysmal reception. Its currently mounted outside attached to my house about 4-5 metres above the ground. I've recently pointed it more towards Buffalo to try to improve reception there but it hasn't helped much and the Toronto stations come in much weaker. This is what I'm picking up now and I need at least 30% stable signal to be able to watch the channel.

2 - NBC - 60-65%
4 - CBS - 30% (unstable)
5 - CBC - 90%
7 - ABC - 15% (unstable)
9 - CTV - 85%
11 - CH - Detected but too low to lock
17 - PBS - 5% (usually 20-30% unstable)
23 - CW - 60%
25 - CBCF - 85%
26 - TBN - 5% (unstable)
29 - FOX - 60%
35 - CTS - 30% (unstable)
44 - Omni 2 - 70% (When it was testing)
49 - MyTV - 5% (unstable)
57 - City - 75%
64 - Omni 1 - 20-30% (When it was testing)
65 - Global - 15% (unstable)
66 - Sun - 55% (unstable)

From that list I can say I get 8 out of 18 channels reliably. Before I moved it towards Buffalo I used to get much better Toronto reception (both Omni's at 90%+). Would a 4228 help? I really can't increase the height any more than this. There aren't too many obstacles in front of the antenna just some trees. Or how about stacking 2x 4221's?

i live on yonge/sheppard... 5floor condo... I have 4221 antenna which is connected directly to my tv. I am facing south but there are some tall building in front of me. i can get some canadian hd channels such as 5.1, 9.1 and city news....

however i dont get NBC or ABC... any chance i can get those channels if i buy an amplifier? if yes, which one is recommended? Is it worth it?

eliminator trees can be a big problem. If you can stand where your antenna is pointing and take a pic and post it we can tell if that's a problem

If the trees are much taller than the antenna and blocks the view completely that's most likely the problem.

Your low signal strength on Cbs and Abc would normally be height related. By the way how long is your cable run?


boumbo same thing if that building is completely blocking the view towards Buffalo no preamp will help. There is nothing you can do. Sorry.

update: after playing around with my cm 4221, i am getting the following channels. i am facing south in a condo below 10th floor. There are some tall buildings in front of me. antenna is facing SSE. i dont get channel ****** as shown below. Any chance i get these if i get a pre-amp or anything i can do to get these since i am getting buffalo channels such as NBC, cbs ??\

I am getting channel 29 as analogue[not watchable though] but no 29-1... i believe it is fox channel

same for 49. i get it as analogue and it is watchable but a little blurry but no 49-1


2-1 wgrz hd
2-2 wgrz sd
4-1 wivb
5-1 cblt
7-1 wkbw
7-2 wngs
7-3 wcsn
9-1 cfto
17-1 wned hd
17-2 wned sd
17-3 wned thinkbright
18-1 E
23-1 wnlo
25-1 cblft
29-1 **************wutv hd
29-2 **************wned sd
35-2 some channel
49-1 ************wnyo hd
49-2 ************wnyo sd
57-1 citytv
65-2 global
66-1 ckxt suntv

eliminator trees can be a big problem.trees are not much taller and they dont completely block my view... cable run is 25' or so... i have a 10db indoor amp that helped stabilise some of the weaker stations but its not enough... i am considering ditching ota since 8 out of 18 hd channels is too little:(

If your house has a brick chimney can you mount the antenna against there.

4 to 5 meters is not very high off the ground, you need a good clear view.

it doesnt have a chimney and i dont think i can safely go any higher the way it is mounted now... i think im SOL

ok i have mounted my antenna higher... i really cant go any higher unless i buy a tower... i bought a tripod and placed it on my roof... its about 2 metres higher than before (total about 7.5 m) and now ive got about 50 feet of RG6 cable... my new results are in bold

2 - NBC - 60% 60%
4 - CBS - 30% 5%
5 - CBC - 90% 95%
7 - ABC - 15% 50%
9 - CTV - 85% 90%
11 - CH - Detected but too low to lock
17 - PBS - 5% 20%
23 - CW - 60% 65%
25 - CBCF - 85% 90%
26 - TBN - 5% 0%
29 - FOX - 60% 60%
35 - CTS - 30% 5%
44 - Omni 2 - N/A
49 - MyTV - 5% 5%
57 - City - 75% 85%
64 - Omni 1 - N/A
65 - Global - 15% 85%
66 - Sun - 55% 85%

so i gained ABC which is watchable now... i also gained all the toronto stations at a good level... hamilton is gone but that doesnt bother me... one interesting thing is that i used to have hooked up a crappy 10 dB indoor amplifier which actually helped a bit before but now it actually makes things much worse so im not using any amplifier now

im considering a channel master 7775 preamp... do you guys think it will help me pick up PBS and CBS? those are the main channels i want to pick up on top of what i have.... any idea where i could buy one and how much it costs?

or should i consider a channel master 4228 instead?

7775 will definitely help, but I'd consider something with lower gain, such as Winegard 4700. With 4700 I don't even have to rotate the 4228 now anywhere (pointed around South) and getting every single channel available (49-1 being the weakest one, but still working well).

7775 will definitely help, but I'd consider something with lower gain, such as Winegard 4700. With 4700 I don't even have to rotate the 4228 now anywhere (pointed around South) and getting every single channel available (49-1 being the weakest one, but still working well).
i cant find the 7775 anywhere for sale... i see winegard 2870 on ebay 19db uhf with 2.9db noise... i also see a 4700 for $10 more on ebay...