So my question is if i invest in a good OTA OUTDOOR antenna will i be able to better get these channels?You'll find lots of great GTA reception info in this thread that I've moved your posts into. You'll get tons of OTA information and answers to your questions in these links:

once in a while i watch shows on my LCD/6100 Receiver using a cheap RCA indoor antenna.
I'm in a 6th-floor condo near Dufferin+Steeles with a clear SSE view, and I get all the locals and most of Buffalo, just missing WKBW and WNYO. Due to condo regulations, I have a CM4221 INDOORS :( . I recently got a Zenith Silver Sensor (highly-rated indoor antenna), and I find that it's just as good as the CM4221, and a lot less ugly :D . It actually gets FOX, a station that the CM4221 can't get, because the ZSS is small enough that I can move it around to find "the sweet spot" for reception. A better indoor antenna may help a lot in your situation.

I get ( after vigorously positioning the antenna) CBS, ABC, CBC, CW and if i point in the oposite direction i get FOX and PBS, Suntv all in HD. So my question is if i invest in a good OTA OUTDOOR antenna will i be able to better get these channels?
A few questions before I can give better answers...

Do you have a clear view to the SSE from your roof, or even better, from a window? A clear window view would be nice for an indoor antenna.
Can you see the CN Tower from your place?

I wont be cancelling my satellite because i still want my Premium channels like TMN as well as tsn, etc.. I just wanted to have Sim-Sub free prime time television :) I have a Pretty clear sight for SSE, and I have a Perfect unubstructed view of the CN tower from my roof top. unfortunatly i dont think getting a different indoor antenna will help because the rooms windows face North. Also, my tv does have a siginal meter for OTA channels.. And i find its more relyable because it shows channels Like ABC and ocasionaly PBS witch my 6100 reciever wont pick up siginal on.

I have a Pretty clear sight for SSE, and I have a Perfect unubstructed view of the CN tower from my roof top. unfortunatly i dont think getting a different indoor antenna will help because the rooms windows face North.
Looks like you'll need an outdoor antenna pointing SSE for the OTA Buffalo stations. I suggest a CM4221 (or a CM4228 in fringe areas). A UHF-only antenna is sufficient for digital reception in the Toronto/Buffalo area. Do *NOT* get a yagi, as it tends to be very frequency-specific, often optimized for one specific channel.

Looking at installing an outdoor antenna at Ossington and Dupont. Does anyone have experience in this area? I would like to try and get some Buffalo channels.

Currently using indoor antenna with pretty good results if the weather is good and no one bumps it. Live in a 2 story house. Planning to put it on the roof--haven't been able to get up and see about view of CN tower yet but think with a pole should have little trouble. TV will be in the basement.

Thinking of getting either the CM4221 or 4228. Wondering about need for a rotpr or preamp? Any advice would be great.

Ok i got my unit today and it looks identical to the channel master.. but its called something else. I was playing around with it tonight INSIDE the house and to my suprise just holding it i was able to get CBS,ABC,FOX,CTV,Citytv, suntv,CW hd, and a few more. Pretty sweet results! im going to be mounting it outside tomorrow and i bet that will work out even better! with me luck :D

Thinking of getting either the CM4221 or 4228. Wondering about need for a rotpr or preamp? Any advice would be great.
Looking at maps.google.com, I'd say to aim the antenna parallel to Ossington "southbound". Ossington isn't due north/south. It's actually NNW / SSE, which is almost exactly what you want to aim to get the Buffalo stations. The CN tower will be to the left (east) of Buffalo, as seen from your place. If you get a 4221 you probably won't need a rotor. The possible exception is CITY-HD. 1200 watts is a joke; your wife's hair-dryer probably has a higher rating. The 4228 is more directional, and is more likely to require a rotor.

Just for giggles, can you try an indoor antenna on the 2nd storey, and post your results to the indoor forum? You may be shocked.

ok after more messing around, As long as i point Straight south. I mean like flat against my south wall south i get all the Toronto+ NBC,cbs,fox,PBS,ABC,CW. Only one im not getting to ever come in is Mytv 34.1 dont know why but o well. Going to fine tune it outside tomorrow. Thanks for all the help guys!

Just one other thing, Boavista: if your OTA results look promising enough that you want to try for more improvement and your budget allows it, I'd suggest not using a BEV 6100 box (nor even a 92xx) for OTA because the tuner performance just doesn't match that of a top line Samsung or similar OTA STB with the newest ATSC chipsets. :)

Here's a comparison I posted quite some time ago when I had a 6100 and an LG OTA STB:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=210456

I found the same results to. My bell box sucks for OTA. My tv's built in ATSC got more channels then bell could pick up. Funny thing.. The antenna got all toronto and buffalo HD channels simply by me holding it in my hand in the room ponited directly south. I went out this morning and set up the antenna in my back yard (i want it on the roof but its WAYYY to slippery and cold today) but all i could get to lock in was the toronto stations. Do you think this is a height problem because the antenna is only about 6 feet off the ground? or was i only getting all those channels in the room because of the siginal bouncing off the walls or what not.

Hopefully it warms up a little on monday or tuesday so i can go out there and set it up on the roof right above the room that i was getting all the channels in.:D

i must be in one of the worst areas for hdtv :(... my signal just keeps getting worse... i have a CM4221 mounted outdoors about 4-5 metres above the ground and live near woodbine centre... here are my terrible results right now

NBC - 55-60%
CBS - 30-40%
CBC - 90%
ABC - <15%
CTV - 80-85%
CW23 - 60%
CBCF - 85-90%
FOX - 60%
PBS - 10-30%
MyTV - 30%
CityTV - 50-60%
SunTV - 60% (usually <30%)
Religious Channel - 2%

im actually pointed a bit toward buffalo but this is almost affecting my toronto reception as citytv and especially suntv are starting to die out sometimes... my cable run is short (<10 metres) but i am using a 10db indoor amp and it has improved reception by 10-15% on some channels but still my results are just terrible compared to other people here with the same antenna :(

Where is your antenna mounted on the roof with a clear view towards Buffalo?

You should be able to get much better signal strength than what you are getting.

If you installed the connector on the cable did you strip the cable properly? All the braided wire should be left on the cable and folded back before you slide the connector on.

i only have 1 CM4221. the cables are fine and im pointing a bit more toward buffalo than the CN tower... im barely clearing my neighours roof and there are some trees ahead and am part of a valley but no more than maybe 2 metres lower than the highest point.... other than that there are no buildings or anything in the way

i tried the analogue stations and the amplifier helps a lot... without it i cant even pick up cbc or ctv... the amp doesnt seem to have such a big impact on the digital stations.. but on the analogue even when the stations do come in.. the image is tripled or quadrupled and unwatchable pretty much because of that

Eliminator if your seeing multiple ghost on analog signals you are receiving reflections or multipath reception.The bow-tie side faces the direction you want to receive.The current snow on roofs can create reflections if your not high enough.If your facing Buffalo then Buffalo UHF analogs should have no ghost.(17,29,23,49)Are you sure your cables?

Just for giggles, can you try an indoor antenna on the 2nd storey, and post your results to the indoor forum? You may be shocked.
Thanks for the advice.

We used to have the antenna on the 2nd floor prior to renovations. From what I remember, these were the results:
CBC, CTV, French CBC--almost perfect
City-TV--so-so
CW, Fox--occasionally
Not bad--as long as no one bumped the shelf it was on.

Are you sure your cables?im 100% sure of the cabling... i just tried the analogue channels again... 17 decent quality but lots of ghosts (3-4)... 23 weak and 1 ghost... 29 weak but has a ghost of another channel on it... 49 weak no ghosts... i just checked ctv 9 and it seems like it has a million ghosts since the picture is very screwy... im barely clearing my neighbours roof and it does have a lot of snow on it and it is raining

Well i couldnt wait any longer so i got up on the icy snow filled roof to setup my OTA antenna. I place it about 4 feet from my dish and used diplexers to joint the cabling with my satellite system. I now get in HD: ABC,CBS,NBC,Fox,MyTv,CW,CTV,CityTv,SunTv, PBS. Im quite thrilled with these results, and this was only done by slapping up a pole, pointing direct south, and boom they all came in. I didnt have time nor the patients to adjust the antenna today due to the extreme cold and very high winds. The only station that comes in iffy is NBC. Siginal is between 27-35 and theres small pixalation every 5-20 minutes. Everything else is great.. also Suntv stutters even though siginal is 65+.

When weather gets better im going to Adjust for optimal strength, but all in all worth every penny spent! ( $50 for antenna and a free Satellite mount i had in the garage).

BTW, this is all done using NO PREAMP and 2 diplexers with about 50-75 feet of Cable (RG6 for most, about 5 feet of RG59 going from antenna to the outside diplxer)

Eliminator did you try without the amp.You must be in a poor location for signals with no line of sight to Buffalo.You will need to raise the antenna higher for Buffalo.Those Buffalo analog stations should be crystal clear.You may want to aim for just the Toronto stations and see if that works out.I would swap the matching balun and look into each connector to see if any strands of shielding are touching the centre core.

yea as i said i did try the amp and it improved some stations by 10-15%... no negative effects from using it... the thing is i cant raise the antenna any higher... my angle isnt that great either but at the time when i was testing it this was the best position for buffalo and i think will have to reaim it at toronto since im starting to lose citytv

bought a samsung LCD and installed a CM4221 today. I live in a slight valley but I was pretty optimistic as I can see the top of the CN tower and the antenna is about 4 stories above ground.

channels I have are:
fox
cbc
the CW
abc
ctv
cityTV
sunTV

my TV can't catch any signal from NBC or PBS (my two most wanted channels, aside from cityTV).

I'm about 10KM northwest of the CN tower. and pointing my antenna slightly to the right on the CN tower. does that sound right?

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=43.676935,-79.489431&ie=UTF8&ll=43.676982,-79.489431&spn=0.00793,0.01369&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1