GM parts guy are there not apartment buildings to your south.They could be giving you reflections or blocking the direct signal path to Buffalo.Try either moving the antenna position up or across the roof to find a sweet spot or switch to a more directional antenna.

Fantastic results, El Gran Chico! Where are you located in Etobicoke?
North of the Queensway between Royal York and Islington.

Now that I've had it for a couple of weeks now, I find that those results are not 24/7 but I still get all the Buffalo stations strong when I point it that direction and the Toronto stations strong when I point it at the CN Tower.

When I point it somewhere in between I sometime lose a few channels (and sometimes not :-) ) - usually I need to trade off CITY with MyTV when reception is weaker.

I'm surprised at how strong NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, FOX, and CW come in even when it's not pointed directly at Buffalo. I almost never lose them.

On the other hand, when I point it directly at Buffalo, CTV is almost always still strong, CBC is often strong, but French is sometimes strong, Sun TV is occasionally strong, and CITY is seldom strong.

added mast with 7 feet increase in height
CM4221 pointed south on chimney of 2 story home with 50' RG6

all HD PQ is perfect on viewsonic n3752w

receiving OTA HD
2.1 NBC
4.1 CBS
5.1 CBC
7.1 ABC
9.1 CTV
23.1 WLNO
25.1 CBC French
29.1 FOX
43.1 PBS
66.1 SUN

plus some SD for a now total of 39

with higher antenna got these additional HD channels

44.1 omni 2
49.1 WNYO
57.1 CITY
64.1 omni 1
omni 1+2 are still testing, so sometimes nada

ty for all helpful info, which allowed me to make good equipment choices

with higher antenna got these additional HD channelsIts one of my old favourite sayings about OTA antennas, and it comes from fighter pilots: "Altitude=Options".

Great to see your new results with the added 7 feet height. :)

Ok now ive lost fox even though I ve gone higher.

Nbc 70 %
abc 58 %
City 94%
Cfto 77%
Cbc 88%
Cbs 52%

Had Omni 1 yesterday but was glitchy. No omni one today. I am getting frustrated. When I had 17 channels all were low signal Now I have a few but they seem to come and go. I went higher and now its worse? Lower had me pointing into trees.:(

oK Today Fox is back at 66%

I hear many say to get a preamp, I may comsider this but 0% signal with a preamp cant help.

I want to know if I'm correct in my line of thinking.

My unstabillity is caused by multipath. The cure for multipath is more directional antenna. Like a yagi style not a multi style like db4 or cm4221.

I have moved antenna around out back and on the roof and results seem to constantly be unstable. Sometimes I have 94% signal strength others nothing and the Tv wont even scan the station theres so little.

I had omni briefly now I cant find it again either.

I read the locations of many DHC'ers in etobioke and many are quite close to me and seem not to have the same problem.

Is it possable the anteena is defective. Ie bows are bent balun to tight/loose fried. My height is good 27 feet. I also want to know if any knows of a store in or around etobioke that sells a Yagi style antenna.

My goal is a stable signal.
Channels I would like Fox, Nbc Abc Cbs City Cfto. I dont really mind if thats all I can catch most seem to have 20 or more channels.

Sorry for my rant.

GM, don't feel defeated, it happens sometimes, and I think you're right that somewhere in the chain is a weak link. At this point you have so many variables in the mix that I alone could suggest about a dozen things to try.

I think a sensible approach is to have a professional drop by and do a site survey for you to check the multipath situation. Debugging your system isn't usually included in that, but that's up to the pro as to how to proceed.

Defeated. Yes. I was hoping to bring back rogers there crappy 3250 that is about as reliable as the Signal I already get with the antenna. Rogers even came out (No charge) rewired all my gear at that time, before my antenna. And still to this day there junk is just that. Junk. Now I'm finding that as I go I could have got there 3250 (Not that I really want to) for what Ive spent so far. $80 bucks for the antenna $40 for drill bits. $40 for cable. $23 bucks for ground rod, ground wire. ground block. $20 for antenna post brackets. $10 for antenna post. $10 for f type crimp tool. $20 for RG6 weather proof f type ends, and cable hold down straps. $15 for lighting arester, $10 for Tapcon slags and plugs. $5 for silicone. Plus the $20 I spent on a RCA CANT411 to see if I should buy a real antenna or not. Im not angry/upset at what Ive spent I believe it is still acceptable but the results I have gotten are the disapointing thing.

I will call a profesional. My worry is that he/her will want to just through parts at it and still get nowhere like rogers did. All there fancy meters and gear couldnt help with there stuff.

BTY I did take tv to the JVC service center before ROGERS came out to do there work and JVC siad my tv was in excellent shape. They didnt charge me as was there policy if there was no fault found. Diagnosis charge. I thanked them.

GM parts guy the easiest way to check for multipath signals is to check your analog uhf stations for shadows or ghosting.Aim the antenna for analog 29,49 from Buffalo or 57,52 from Toronto.If you see ghosting with the analogs then your going to get drop-outs with the digitals.Also you are near flightpath for planes.

GM, Omni 1 and 2 are in the testing stage right now. They don't have to be on the air 100% until early summer. That's why you don't see them even when you do a channel scan. I noticed that they do most of their testing in the morning, and then it shuts down for the day buy 2pm. That's what's been happening this past week.

Thanks Rob, and ASA. I will check for ghosting on regular UHF not with my atsc tuner. I am near the flight path, but it is north of me and Im pointing south so I should be ok. I have been watching my siganal in the morning and it seems strongest and most stabel then. Afternoon and evening it becomes unstable and hit and miss.

Today

Fox 71%
Nbc 77 %
Cbs 71 %
Abc 67%

Ok I have repaired/flatend my bowties (Post is in tune up atenna thread) scaned uhf analog then digital. I did this last night.

I was able to get Fox analog no problems. Nothing came in for Fox in ATSC I had massive ghosting for CBC analog but in ATSC it looked perfect.

As I suspected I have better signal strength and stabillity for the most part in the morning. Here are my results today.

Note: stable/unstable is refering to signal NOT picture. Picture is fine unless noted.

2-1 74% stable
2-2 71% "
4-1 65% "
5-1 95% "
7-1 67% "
7-2 69% "
9-1 77% "
23-1 87% "
25-1 85% "
29-1 40-52% Unstable changes every 1-2 seconds
29-2 35-54% " " " " "
43-1 61-64% Somewhat stable changes every 3-5 seconds
43-2 63-65% " " " " 5-9 "
43-3 62-67% Unstable every second
49-1 30-35% " " 1-2 seconds
49-2 30-40% " " " "
57-1 92% Stable.

Addtional info. Im point 160 degrees on my compass. I have not changed for declination of 10.4 (Not that I know which way I would change it. Just read what the compass said.)

My GPS cordinates are 79.33.39 W
43.41.10 N

I tried to use some sites in the Aiming section but nothing seems to work when I use my location.

Nice to see the antenna tuneup working so well for you! Now if there was a way for you to see the signal meter on the tv as you turn the antenna you could peak the aim for the Toronto/Buffalo sweet spot.

I've been into the OTA DTV for a week now, which has included about a week of trying to find a better antenna solution.

I've been using an indoor Jensen TV911 antenna with 25 dB. I know this is the outdoor result forum, but since I'm looking to put up an outdoor antenna I was hoping someone might be able to help eliminate some of my confusion.

I'm in a house in South Etobicoke, just West of Royal York about 100 m from the lake. I have the antena sitting in the Sun room on the West side of the house and have no problems picking up CTV, CITY, SUN or CBC (although CBC needs the odd realignmnent). CTV is usuall around 70-80% signal strength with CITY in the 50's, although the tv rarely drops the CITY signal.

My concern is the US stations. I can pick up 2, 4, 7, 29, 23 & 43 (fantastic reception all the time), but very poor consistency. Channels 2 & 29 are erratic, generally better in the evening but sometimes go in and out during the course of a show with no adjustment to the antenna. I keep the gain to the max on the dial (25 dB according to the box), and if I decrease it at all I will loose most US stations.

This leads me to think that I am picking up a lot of reflected signals, which might be able to be solved with a CM bowtie unit on the roof. My best guess is that since I seem to get a fair amount of reception with a basic indoor unit I may not need to go all out with a roof unit. I'm thinking therefore of the CM 4221 instead of the 4228, and maybe even the new two-bay 4220.

Any thoughts on these antenna choices? Would I need an amplifier? (probably less than 40' of cable). Would a simple roof-top installation suffice rather than a tower? If a aim a bow-tie reflector towards Buffalo from South Etobicoke would I still pick up the CN-Tower signals?

Sorry for the long list of questions. It's just that I would rather hear from people in the know before I buy too much/wrong gear and spent too much time on a roof for no reason.

Thanks.

Any thoughts on these antenna choices? Would I need an amplifier? (probably less than 40' of cable). Would a simple roof-top installation suffice rather than a tower? If a aim a bow-tie reflector towards Buffalo from South Etobicoke would I still pick up the CN-Tower signals?

being close to the lake is the reason buffalo channels are erratic. Mist rising off the lake. Fog is the worst thing you can have for reception. worse than snow or rain. The solution is height. Higher is better.
Even then 2 & 29 are problems for most of us. the better the antenna, the better results.
High gain antennas are directional by design. You won't get good reception from buffalo & toronto at the same time.
I have a 4228 for buffalo channels and a 4221 for toronto. they were very, very tricky to align and phase. much easier to combine 2 antennas of exactly the same make & model. there is a 3 db loss combining, so you'd want the highest gain antenna. i'd make both 4228 if i had my choice. The other solution is a rotor. An amplifier gave me higher signal but worse reception. it amplifies the noise as much as signal. Its probably still in the backyard where i threw it off the roof.
And, higher is better.

I tried to use some sites in the Aiming section but nothing seems to work when I use my location.

I used Google earth, and then used the tape/line (?) feature. I placed a dot on the roof of my home, and then placed a dot in the middle of Grand Island (not sure where the towers are over there, but the middle of the island sounded like a good place to start). Google Earth then drew a straight line between both points. I then "flew" back to my home and adjusted the top veiw. I then took a screen shot of where the line passed through my neighbourhood. This allowed me to aim the antenna in the right direction when I was testing it on the front porch. before I did the Google thing, my calculations had me pointing the antenna too far south. The US stations came and went frequently. Now with the Google map in hand, I reaimed the antenna (pointing it at the peak of a neighbours house down the street.... the line on the map passes over that roof peak). Now I get all the US stations from the ground with very strong signals (mostly 9-10 out of 10). The only station I don't get at the moment is MyTv, and I suspect I'll get that one too once the antenna is on the roof. (Google Earth rocks)

Asa good to hear.

Before I do a install I use a map program and then see where the antenna is and get a general idea where with a compass to point towards for Buffalo.

I use this info as a starting point and then adjust the antenna for best reception from that location.

One can never just use a compass and set the antenna and that's it you have to adjust left or right till you are happy with the results.

Just moved into a new apartment overlooking the Don Valley. I'm facing west toward the city, but I can see the lake. In the pic below the CN Tower is just out of the right side of the picture. Buffalo is about 30 deg. east (left) of my line of sight toward the lake.

I'm using a ProBrand HD3150Plus tuner and a CM 4221. Obviously I can get all of the Toronto stations no problem, and I can get decent reception of most analogue Buffalo stations. But I'm having problems getting digital reception of the Buffalo stations.

WNYD comes in no problem. WNLO comes on sporadically, as does WNED. When I'm not receiving them, the signal strength on WNED is very low (10-20%) and the signal strength on WNLO is a steady 49%. My reception on WIVB is also consistently low. But every other Buffalo station is coming in at a constant 49%. From what I've read in AVS forum, the constant 49% means my receiver is having trouble with multipath, or it's picking up a very strong analogue signal on the frequency.

I'm wondering if the pigeon netting on my balcony is causing problems. The antenna is placed on the outside north end of the balcony and is facing south, so it is looking through the netting at an angle. Is is possible that this is causing my problems? Or am I just out of luck since I don't have a clear view of Buffalo?

Thanks,
Brent

http://www.imageshock.eu/img/balcony.jpg (http://www.imageshock.eu/?img=balcony.jpg)

If the netting is metallic then it will be causing problems.

The netting is plastic.