: ON - City of Toronto Metro Area <OUTDOOR Antennas Only> - OTA
2007-01-02, 11:24 AM
Mik just try a regular indoor 10db where the 80' of cable ends.
If you are luckly that might do the trick for you. If not its roof time for a preamp. :rolleyes:
I have rabbit years now and reception is so so. I am planning to install the RCA ANT706 antenna on my chimney. I live in the Jane/Bloor area. Any comments.
2007-01-04, 05:47 PM
TKS, before you buy anything please take a look through this thread on GTA Outdoor antenna reception and consider a Channel Master 4221 antenna instead. Also please click on the links in this post:
2007-01-09, 04:03 PM
I live in a bungalow, have a CM4228 installed in the attic on a 6ft mast. Bottom of antenna is only 3 ft off the floor.
No preamp, 25ft run of coax down through an interior wall to wall plate. Then into and 37LC2D (37 inch LG LCD).
I think I'm pulling in everything.
2-1) WGRZ - 50-55%
4-1) WIVB - 50%
5-1) CBLT - 80-85%
7-1) WKBW - 60%
7-2) WGNS - 60% but no picture
9-1) CFTO - 80-85%
23-1) WNLO - 60-65%
25-1) CBLFT - 80-85%
29-1) WUTV - 45%
43-1) WNED - 65-70%
57-1) CITY - 65%
66-1) CKXT - 50-55%
Couple of questions.
1) The only grounding I have is through the coax connections in my APC 3400-joule surge protector. Is this enough grounding for the antenna/coax?
And if I used a ground block in the attic, will I lose any signal strength?
2) Options for increasing my signal strength? I would like to get WUTV a little better, it comes in a kinda slow.
a) direction of antenna? Not sure which way will help more, if any. Tilt up?
b)Will an indoor signal amp help at the end of my 25ft cable run, just to squeeze a little more signal out of my setup, or do I need a preamp in the attic?
Outside the house is not an option(wife won't let me, says I'm gonna kill myself, I'm already an idiot for climbing into the attic...etc....) I could probably get the antenna another 2 feet higher, but thats about it.
2007-01-09, 04:53 PM
sleepaholic because of your short cable length you do not need a antenna preamp and using one will surely cause overload on your tuner.
One reason for the lower signal than normal in your attic is because of the height your antenna is mounted. Being a bungalow you are atleast 10' lower than a two story house.
You do not need to ground your antenna mast in the attic since it is not exposed to the outside elements. Using your apc is good enough for the coax line since your antenna is in your attic.
You can try the cheap indoor amp 10db from Rona and return it if it does not help. At 25' of cable you have no real signal loss.
Ps: How do you get the signal strength in % as mine only displays level bar?
2007-01-09, 05:06 PM
Sleepaholic, thats pretty good results for being in the attic.
Amplifier won't help much, but like yaamon said, give it a try. my amp increased overall level, but that didn't help much, i just get more noise, and the tuner gets breakup if you have too much signal. I'm going to take the amp out (when the weather is better) and see if that stops my city & fox breakup / pixelate problem.
The weather will affect your signal a lot, especially when there is snow on your roof.
2007-01-09, 10:53 PM
Yes, you are right. I only get level bars too. I was just eyeballing the percentages. Since the level bars are broken up in 3rds,
Bad = 0-33%
Normal = 37-66%
Good = 67-100%
I was just making rough estimates.
Anyways, I went to homedepot and got a 10db RCA amplifier, and I'm happy to report that I've gotten some mild improvement in signal strength across the board!! Ranges from 5-10% depending on the station. And WUTV is now steady at around 55%!
I saw a 25db amplifier with an 'FM trap'. Not sure what the trap does, but I'm tempted to try it. Is there any reason not to? Will 25db overload the signal on the local stations?
Since OTA is digitial and 'all or nothing', is there any reason to try to increase signal strength since I'm already getting all the stations clear right now?
2007-01-10, 02:35 AM
I would not try that 25dB amp - that's a lot of energy for a situation like yours that is already working, and it would probably just overload your system.
An FM Trap is a circuit in a preamp that filters out FM Radio frequencies - this is only useful if you are finding that certain analogue VHF stations are getting strange interference patterns due to nearby radio stations. Digital VHF stations don't suffer from such problems, but your digital OTA stations are all UHF anyways so an FM Trap is useless for you.
2007-01-11, 12:31 PM
sleepaholic, as stampeder said I would not recommend a stronger indoor amp.
There is times when more is not better.
Even at 10db these cheap indoor amp/booster has a lot of noise usually 4db and surely the 25db one has even more.
I have found that on a 5db indoor amp its good enough to restore the signal after a additional 75' run.
Cheap indoor amps can work if the cable from the antenna to indoor amp is less than 40-50'.
If your cable run is long going to the tv and you try to add a amp there, all it will do is boost more noise than signal. The precious signal would have been lost from the long cable run.
2007-01-11, 06:41 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys.
I'll keep the my setup the way that it is, and just be happy I'm able to get what I can from my attic setup.
Hopefully any snow on my roof, if any, won't prohibit me from watching the superbowl!
I am at Bloor/Jane, 8km west of the CN tower. I presently have 2 analogue TV's in the house. Eventually I will have a HDTV but there will always be an analogue for awhile. Analogue channels 5 and 9 are a must. Channel 11 would be nice to have. Currently I have a standard indoor loop with rabbit years. Reception is as expected with this kind of antenna. Some channels are ok some are not depending on distance.
I have found a good installer from this web site and the plan is to do an outdoor installation on the chimney. House is 2 story plus attic.
My options are as follows:
yagi combo VHF/UHF. Too big.
CM4221 and hope it picks up VHF also. (taking a chance)
CM4221 and small (3-4ft boom) VHF antenna.
CM4221 and omni VHF/UHF with combiner/filter.
CM4228. I read that this picks up VHF channels.
I would like to do the installation once since the installer will be there.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
2007-01-26, 02:47 PM
TKS, have you read through the Knowledge Base & FAQ and downloaded the Antenna Chart? It'll help me having to repeat myself. :)
On your list of options the only ones that make sense are:
#3, and my exact prescription would be a CM4221 at the top of the pole with a Delhi 303 or 304 beneath it about 1 foot lower.
#1 needn't be a huge antenna. A Delhi 933 or 934 with the UHF kit would be fine for your needs.
Forget about the other options for what you want. Also you'll want a rotor in order to get Hamilton and Buffalo stations with the same antenna.
2007-01-26, 03:29 PM
I'm in a 2-story semidetached at Queen and Carlaw (Leslieville). My first OTA experience: I got a SIR-T351 on ebay for $120 and a Winegard 4400 (4-bay) for around $40. I don't have an HDTV yet and so far I've only been testing with a 17" LCD computer monitor.
With the antenna right against my east window, pointing away from the CN tower I get CBC, CTV, CityTV, and some other toronto channel. This is probably reflections from other houses coming in between the trees and all that. At some point I will mount the antenna on my chimney, point it south and hopefully I'll get some buffalo channels. I'll report again when I get to that stage.
You just gave me an idea.
Instead of spending the money for a separate VHF antenna. Should I just buy a HD tuner and plug this into my analogue TV? Will I get the VHF channels (2,4,7,5,9,11) on my analogue TV if they broadcast on HD. I will insatll a CM 4221. (what channels do broadcast on HD out of this group). I realize that I will not be getting HD quality but the channels will be there.
2007-01-29, 04:22 PM
You are asking about Rogers basic cable channel designations which do not correspond directly to OTA designations. Here are the correlations (thanks to stampeder and Daniel Tonks).
Rogers | Analogue OTA | Digital OTA
2 (TVO) | 19 | 51 (not active)
4 (Omni 1) | 47 | 64 (not active)
5 (CBC-english) | 05 | 20
7 (CITY) | 57 | 53
9 (CFTO) | 09 | 40
11 (CH Hamilton) | 11 | 18 (not active)
As you can see, eventually (we don't know when?) all of those channels should broadcast digitally on UHF (channel 13 and up), but currently only three are active. Please note there is a bunch of other channels currently broadcasting digitally, that you can possible get besides those ones. On a personal note, thank you for not asking about CIII - Global.
Please also note that at least one stb might not work without the proper connections so you would need an analogue tv with minimum component inputs to use that particular box:
what channels do broadcast on HD out of this group
Please remember that not all digital broadcasts are actually HD, most are SD.
If those are the only channels you are interested in you might want to wait before getting an ATSC tuner. That's a pretty big investment for three active digital channels that you are going to watch on an analogue TV. In that case you would require VHF reception capabilities.
Just to clarify, I was referring to OTA channels. I do not have cable. Can you tell me which channels (2,4,7,5,9,11) are not active? From your note, it seems that:
5,9 are active and I can pick them up on UHF.
11 not active, VHF antenna required
2, 4, 7 (Buffalo channels). This means that I would require the VHF antenna.
2007-01-29, 04:53 PM
Sorry, I guess I had a brain cramp! Yes, 2, 4, 7, have digital channels that are active in the UHF range. Their corresponding digital channels are: 33, 39, & 38.
2007-01-29, 05:12 PM
Refer to post 304 for a recent list of whats available in the toronto area.
He's missing 49 mytv, which some of us get.
So in summary I can get all the original VHF channels in digital UHF version except channel 11. Maybe my best option is to purchase a stand alone tuner and connect it to my primary analogue TV. This way I only have to mount one antenna-CM4221.
Now, I have to find an inexpensive (used is ok) tuner that can do this.
Will a SIR-T351 or equivalent do the job?
2007-01-30, 02:56 PM
Yes, the t-351 will do it.
Samsung seems to be the tuner of choice around here.
CH hamilton & global should be on in digital early next year.
E-bay usually has used tuners available. There is a T451, bid is at 132.50 U.S. There is a no-name brand at 99.95 U.S.