teenie I would suggest you get a preamp.

The Winegard AP4700(19db) or the Channel master 7775(26db) of gain.

With your long cable run you are losing signal, plus you intend to split the signal several times.

The Winegard at 19db of gain has more than enough to over come the long cable length and splits you need.

Good splitters can be bought anywhere. Usualy I use the ones rated from 5-1000mhz.

Your results on analog might not be that great. The reason is that for analog reception the antenna needs to points directly to the station. If not you will get noise, double ghoast images etc..

Still you should be able to get Global clear.

You guys don't get PBS, but Fox is ok??

Good luck.


Thanks Yaamon!
I know the analog will not be good... but the analog was just to show what I currently would be hooking up to it. I am hoping to replace either of those TV's at some point.

The reason I was asking about good quality splitters was that I though I read a thread somewhere that talk about signal loss and that some were much better than others. The splitter that came with our JVC's seemed like a
well made unit... nothing like I had seen before. But I do not know how good it is as far as signal loss.


What channel is PBS? It is one I was hoping for.

The pre-amp... well I did not think I was going to need one originally.

But until just recently I always just considered the antenna to the digital input on the TV only. Nor did I ever think about the length of cable until I had to actually run it to the other side of the house... and realized that I had never shortened it and it was a full 75ft long without the inside cabling. And actually. The inside cabling is shortest to the JVC... it is much longer to the other locations.

The brand of splitters and diplexers, I use are Eagle Aspen.

The splitter that came with the Jvc is also good. I did not use mine.

A decent two way splitter only loses 3-3.5db per output.

A 3 way can be equal loss or 3.5 for one port and ther other two 7db loss.

A good four way is usually 7 to 7.5db loss.

I would not buy a splitter from a dollar store. :o

The splitter should feel sturdy when you hold it.

PBS on digital is 43-1.

Teenie, I don't know exactly where you are... ...but I would try re-aiming yours, then buying a pre-amp when you split the signal up.Thanks Tony!

I am west of Islington

I started with what I thought was south... and then started to move east. I was surprised how far I had to move it to get some additional channels.

I will try to find a compass at home and get a more accurate bearing from my location.

zounder1 a 4221 antenna is more than capable of pulling in Nbc 10 bar out of 10 in Markham on a Sumsung T451.

Did a antenna setup at 9th line and 16th with a Samsung T451 and 4221 removed the preamp. 10 out of 10 on all Buffalo stations and Toronto except Sun at 8.

Even in Stouffville a 4221 with no preamp gets Nbc at 95% about 27db if I remember on a Sony 42" tv with built in atsc tuner.

Same results I got at my parents setup. The antenna does not even clear the eves of the roof and surrounded by tress. The trees is much taller than the antenna, that you cant even see the antenna from the road..
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL83/536944/4741575/140911845.jpg

For most of the setup here in the gta the key is elevation and clear view.

Just to go over my complete setup:
CM 4228 antenna
CM rotor
CM 7775 preamp
100+ foot pull from antenna to utility room
Belden 1694A RG6 cable http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/pdf/1694A.pdf
Canare 75ohm F-connectors
http://canare.com/index.cfm?objectid=699412B8-3048-7098-AF7364AD11A70407
A good quality 4 way splitter. (Feeding three PCI OTA HD tuner cards and one OTA STB tuner.)
So from antenna to splitter is 100+ feet and then another 50 feet to the STB box. The low end Hughes STB can lock on any and every channel in the area. It has never lost lock on any channel in the area.

I credit my good reception with:
Having a good preamp. Without a preamp and no splitter I had marginal reception of NBC. Fox would come and go. (I was also using low end RG6 cable at the time... see below.)
Using Belden cable and the Canare connectors. During initial testing I used some generic RG6 cable and the cheap compression F-connectors. With a much, much shorter cable run, I had marginal reception for NBC and FOX. The Belden cable is quite reasonable in price.
My antenna is quite high. My house it three stories tall and the antenna is mounted to the chimney so it has good visibility.
As for tips, I think you are on the right path considering a better preamp... it might help.

As for the splitter, have you tried removing the splitter to see if you can get reception that way? If yes, then it would indicate getting a better splitter as a good first step. Then trying a better preamp would likely be good.

I would also suggest trying Google Earth ( http://earth.google.com/ ).. with the program you can draw a line between your house location and Grand Island near Buffalo. The line I drew went right over the intersection just south of me... and that is when I noticed/realized my initial aim for Buffalo was way, way off. (30 degrees off! And it was initially aimed by an experienced antenna installer!) I turned the antenna so it roughly aimed over that road intersection. From there I could fine tune everything.

I then used NBC for fine tuning signal strength... I found a location that maximized that channel's signal strength. Fortunately for me, all the other Buffalo channels were still coming in strong enough... I did get drop off, but not enough to cause any problems. If anything, I was now better off as instead of 90-100% signal strength for the other Buffalo channels they dropped to 70-80% signal strength. So the risk of overpowering my tuners with too strong of a signal was eliminated. (Though to be honest I never experienced any of the pixelating that some people say they get with too strong of a signal.)

I hope this helps. Cheers.

It has never lost lock on any channel in the area.

wow what was your signal like for WNYO when it used to be a while ago at 0.65kW?

That signal was harder to pull in even over here in Niagara.

wow what was your signal like for WNYO when it used to be a while ago at 0.65kW?

That signal was harder to pull in even over here in Niagara.I do not consider WNYO a channel I expect to receive when they transmit at 0.65kw. So, I'll eat some crow and qualify my comment I have never lost lock on anything excluding WNYO. I have never actually tried to go for WNYO... I figured 0.65kw was well, pretty unrealistic to receive in Toronto.

Come to think of it I never actually tried finding any signal from their frequency/channel with dtvsignal in Linux. I looked and my dtvsignal scripts cycled through all the other channels for aiming - yet I did not even include WNYO. Whoops.

I am curious to see what happens when WNYO finally starts transmitting at higher output... (some day - it will happen at some point I suppose... it has been an amusing mini Soap Opera like plot waiting for this.) Doomsayers seem to think their antenna is too directional for Toronto reception to be possible. We'll just have to see....

I will say that SunTV (at a measly 2.8kW) and CBC French (2.5kW) have never been a problem to receive either.

Cheers.

oh ya i got another one for ya zounder. Suntv 15- out of Hamilton?

don't worry about the new WNYO signal, it's plenty strong. Everyone was picking it up before when they had their test signal on for a week.

Zounder,

Appreciate the advice. Since I have the same rotor as you plus antenna and pretty good elevation I'm going to have to go in reverse order of splitter, preamp and cable to see if I can squeeze the lemon a bit harder. I'll report back if I can improve upon what I've got which is pretty much everything.

I've always thought that if you had all the time and money in the world one could simply build an array of 4228's for kicks to see if that made a difference. Everything I've read seems to suggest not, but I'd think it would be a fun experiment. :-)

oh ya i got another one for ya zounder. Suntv 15- out of Hamilton?Where is their antenna located in Hamilton? Give me a rough idea and I'll rotate my antenna and see if I can pick it up.

Stoney Creek to be exact, on the CHCH Tower.

Just a quick update

1) Using a cheap compass I am aimed at approx 165deg

2) Bought a winegaard pre-amp on Friday from Yaamon(thanks)

3) Currently only the JVC is hooked up and no splitters yet.

Given the above here are my signal strengths

2 - 60% YUP I got it!
4 - 90%
5 - 77%
7 - 77%
9 - 63%
23 - 74%
25 - 77%
29 - 77%
57 - 90%
66 - 0%

Still no PBS.... I was hoping for my son.

Teenie, it seems you got a little better, but perhaps you missed a step. Did you rescan? That may find those channels you're missing. Also, tune in PBS manually. If the tuner finds it, it will add it to your channels list automatically.

PBS is 43, Omni 2 is 44, Omni 1 is 64

Tony

HI to the expert,

Can someone tell me if I messed up my CM4228? I look at the thing and it seem to be good. I bent the mesh a bit and the bowtie may not be perfect but it looks good to me.

I ask because I just help my brother-n-law mount his CM4228. Hi situation is a bit different but I did not think it was that much to have the difference in signal level.

His CM4228 is mount perhaps 8 feet higher due to a two-storey house over my bungalow. His location Marting Grove and Rathburn is only about 10km south of my Marfin Grove and Rexdale. But when I check the signal on the Hughes HTL-DL receiver, I am getting 80+ on all the Buffalo stations and 70+ on the Canadian. All his pictures comes in solid with no pixelations. At first, I thought my Hughes was defective because I was not able to get stable Fox, PBS, CW and NBC at the Martin Grove and Rexdale location. The scan would detect the channels but it would not get pictures and so no signal. The channels are scanned and properly displayed at the Rathburn location so the theory of the receiver being defectiive is moot.

I even went out and purchase a Wade preamp to see if I can get better result at the Rexdale location and it seem to help a bit for my built-in tuner but the Hughes has the same result.

Now could someone tell me if being near the airport would screw around the signal or not? Or if my CM4228 is somehow bent out of shape and not performing properly? Or another theory I have is that I may need attenuator for the Hughes because I have the preamp?

Let me know what you guys think.

Hieppo Buffalo signal strength in Rexdale is not as good as south/central Etobicoke.You need to raise your antenna higher.Multipath reception and reflection cause pixalation.Airplanes can cause it when they pass near .

Teenie, it seems you got a little better, but perhaps you missed a step. Did you rescan? That may find those channels you're missing. Also, tune in PBS manually. If the tuner finds it, it will add it to your channels list automatically.

PBS is 43, Omni 2 is 44, Omni 1 is 64

Tony

Thanks Tony!
Yes, I did quite a few scans.

I am not surprised at 44 and 64 the omni channels have gone missing maintenace upgrade or something. Is anyone still getting theirs?

43 is one that I would like to have oh well!

While most of the channels are pretty consisten signal strength they vary slightly... I am finding with NBC vaires a lot from a high of 65 al the way down to 10... it can fluctuate quite a bit.


UPDATE ON OMNI... there is a thread that speaks to them being MIA
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=51927&highlight=omni

teenie:
you can try and reduce the signal from the preamp to see if the bouncing signal strength stays stable. If you dont have on hand add the splitters just before the receiver as a test.

hieppo:
hard to say if your damage is affecting your reception. Can you post a few pictures of your antenna ? As Rob said elevation is the most important key to strong/stable signal from Buffalo.

Thanks Rob,

I guess I now know. I can't do anything about the airplanes. I don't think I can put a huge antenna mast. I guess I have to live with what I have until I move closer.

...I was not able to get stable Fox, PBS, CW and NBC at the Martin Grove and Rexdale location. The scan would detect the channels but it would not get pictures and so no signal.

What about analog reception? Re-aim the antenna and check the reception on, say, 23 and then scan for the digitals.

Have you carefully checked each connection on the cables? They say one errant strand of shield wire can wreak havoc...

Unless your antenna is heavily damaged, you ought to be doing better than you are. My 4228 has a few dings and performs fine.

Craig

I had problem with reception from the beginning. I got so frustrated. I went and replaced the entire length of the cable with new higher quality RG6 and invested in a F compression tool. After I replaced the cable and connectors, the signal increased dramatically.

However, I am still having weak PBS and FOX signals. PBS would never be rock solid, it will very so often pixelate. Similarly, FOX and NBC does it too.

The only channels I do get solid pictures are the Canadian ones minus the French CBC which sometimes get pixelation. CBS and ABC has some pixelation but not as bad as FOX, NBC and PBS.

That is why I was wondering living over the line of the airplanes would do much to the signals?

BTW, it seem different tuner behaves differently. The built-in one on my Polaroid LCD has more tendency for pixelation (until after I put in the preamp). The Hughes tuner was working better than the built-in with no preamp. However, when the preamp was put in, the Hughes started to act up. PBS and FOX would have no signal while the rest seem to be better.

Any ideas? It is really confusing. I was thinking to take the antenna down and bring it back to the store to see if he can tell me if the antenna somehow is out of whack.