I'm starting to think I should abandon trying for WBBZ from a chimney mount on a bungalow. I see that HWP and Jakeman3's antennas are both over 40' AGL. I thinking that getting something like a Winegard YA-1713 or a ClearStream5 probably won't be successful very often at about 15' AGL at my location. :(

El Gran Chico,
Can you paste your TV fool? Btw, my WNYO is coming in today, but WBBZ shows "Program has no content"

El Gran Chico,

I just did two fresh TV Fools.

At 43' height my WBBZ is +13.9dB http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d0b869c2c3e024d
At 20' height my WBBZ is +15.4dB http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d0b86682915b730

I think you'd be fine trying out a 1713 on your mast. You just need whatever height is necessary to clear nearby obstructions.

I need the height my antenna just to barely clear the peak of my own roof.

I encourage you to try it out!

WBBZ has been coming in weak but trouble-free today whenever I have checked it.

I see a DB4e and 10-element high-vhf antenna in my future this summer...

I'm in SCARBOROUGH (kennedy & lawrence). I have a tower antenna that's about 25 yrs. old.
I used to receive buffalo wned (17) and 11 hamilton fine pre digital.
Now I get neither. I get Buffalo-4, but not 2 or 7.
I have a old pre digital tv. I've put in a digital converter. No other change to setup.

TV fool look OK. Any ideas. Thanks.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d574707d933b837

gould, can you provide us with more information about your setup? Specifically, what type of antenna you're using? And what direction it's pointing in?! If you cannot identify the antenna, could you post a picture of it?

Channel 11 is currently a VHF station with reduced power (vs. the analog signal). They plan to move to UHF soon, which may restore coverage for you.

Hi Gould,

There's not enough info yet to be able to help you. But my early suspicions include:

- need new balun
- check to see if antenna has been damaged or lost parts
- run new RG6 wire -- or at least install new connectors.
- if you have a pre-amp, make sure it's plugged in. Or replace with a new one.
- check that you are aimed toward Buffalo.
- Don't climb tower until you know it is not going to fall down.

El Gran Chico,
Can you paste your TV fool? Btw, my WNYO is coming in today, but WBBZ shows "Program has no content"
Jakeman3, if you click on my username, then click on "visit El Gran Chico's homepage", it will take you to my tvfool.

My WNYO is acting up again. Gone the past few nights. There were times last week when it was coming in about 20% higher than normal and it would still break up occasionally. I'm getting the feeling it is Etobicoke's trouble station. (I guess that's better than having WGRZ or WUTV which seem to be trouble stations further to the west of me).

El Gran Chico,

I just did two fresh TV Fools.

At 43' height my WBBZ is +13.9dB http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d0b869c2c3e024d
At 20' height my WBBZ is +15.4dB http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d0b86682915b730

I think you'd be fine trying out a 1713 on your mast. You just need whatever height is necessary to clear nearby obstructions.

I need the height my antenna just to barely clear the peak of my own roof.

I encourage you to try it out!

WBBZ has been coming in weak but trouble-free today whenever I have checked it.

I see a DB4e and 10-element high-vhf antenna in my future this summer...
HWP, any thoughts about a AD Clearstream5? From a size perspective, it might be a better fit for me. But of course if it doesn't work as well as a 1713, that's a moot point.

El Gran Chico,

My TVFool for WBBZ is +14.0, 2 Edge.
Yours is +11.2, 2 Edge.

I seem to be perhaps the guy in Toronto who is reporting the most success with WBBZ...yet, even I am very seriously considering switching my hd7697p for a y10-7-13 or ya1713 + DB4e this summer.

I believe that WBBZ is so much on the edge that there really is no room for compromise such as a medium-gain Antennas Direct C5.

In my experience, the summer reception of WBBZ is so strong that you'll probably get WBBZ sometimes this summer even with any vhf high antenna. But I don't know if you'll have good enough reception to call it a real "get."

Besides that, the C5 costs around double what the superior 10-element yagis cost. Your concern isn't so much the cost, rather it is the size. I sympathize with you on that, but I know your personality. If you compromize with a C5 and if you get even a minor taste of success, it won't be long before you want to upgrade again to see if you could solidify the station.

If I get my hands on a ten-element antenna, I'll pop-by your place and we'll test it out before it goes up onto my tower.

On the positive side, last summer I went over to a neighbourhood friend's house that has a less-than-ideal small-sized amplified combo antenna - one of the antennas people shouldn't get - one that works in spite of itself. He was having reception problems so I went by to troubleshoot. Once I got him to re-aim and I replaced rusty connectors, suddenly he had WBBZ booming in. It was a tropo day and when he scanned he was close to 50 channels with Rochester booming in, etc. The point is though, if you get any VHF antenna up on your house, you will eventually see WBBZ this summer. Their signal is out there. It might be good enough to watch some baseball. But if you want to maximize your chances of making WBBZ an everyday channel and to minimize dropouts, then you should bite the bullet and get the ten-element yagi.

One exercise worth doing might be to open up Google Earth and draw a line between your antenna mast and the WBBZ (and WNYO for you) transmitters and verify if there are any obstacles that TV Fool would not account for. I have a neighbour friend that is not far from me but no matter what he tries he can't get WPXJ - when for me it is as reliable as CBC. I did the Google Earth exercise for him and sure enough, there is one gigantic building on Queeen Street that is probably doing it to him. That, or else he stubbornly tries to find the elusive "sweet spot" for aim where everything will come in reliably, and in the process he loses WPXJ, CITS, and CHCH, and soon CTV2, and has trouble with City and the Omnis.

Good luck!

I switched my stacked CM 4221s with a DB4e to see if there was an improvement in the overall reception. My initial thought was that the DB4e would outperform the 4221s. However, the preliminary results suggest that the 4221s are the better option. Channel 29.1, for example was very weak with DB43e and I never have any difficulty with Fox (29.1 is very strong my other antenna, a SSH that I’ve rigged over an old satellite dish). In all fairness, I didn’t have a lot of time to experiment as my friend that was holding the ladder was only available for an hour. Still, I would have expected that the DB4e would require less adjustment given that it has a 60 degree beam width as opposed to the 45 degree beam width of the 4221s. I’m going to keep experimenting as like El Gran Chico, I'm determined to pull in WBBZ on a reglar basis

If you're really interested in WBBZ, shouldn't you get an antenna that is designed for VHF?

Equipment and advice, great thread. But what about installation skills?

My wife forbids me from climbing our long ladder to the chimney installation (wisely enough). So, I'd like to find help from somebody less acrophobic who knows his/her stuff (unlike some "professionals"). Ideally, somebody open to a bit of experimenting. I read with admiration and envy about forum posters who do the fixing themselves.

My TV installation needs some basic maintenance. I'm also replacing my 3-foot FM yagi with a 10-foot yagi to get more consistent HD from PBS. But the real riddle for me is being unsure - in advance of getting on the roof - about what needs to be done and how to contract with someone on that basis!

Any suggestion of people, moderately priced firms, or process of finding that kind of help? A PM is fine, if you prefer.

My 4221HD installation (with distribution amp) works pretty good. But I think we win the boobie prize for CN-Tower to Buffalo alignment at 2 degrees. See signature below.

Thanks.
Ben

bentoronto, please check out the OTA: Ontario Parts, Sales, Service, Installers (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=23984) thread for information on installers.

Hi all...

Purchased an LG 57 3D TV (which I use as a super large computer monitor) and decided to try receiving OTA. I built a 2 bay from odds and sods I had around the apartment. 2 coat-hangers, premium speaker wire, and coax. I receive the following:

2-1 WGRZ (intermittently)
2-2 (intermittently)
6-1 CBC
9-1 CFTO
11-1 CHCH (intermittently)
19-1 TVO
25-1 RCI
41-1 Global HD
41-1 Global SD
47-1 OMNI
51-1 ION (intermittently)
51-2 QUBO (intermittently)
51-3 IONLIFE (intermittently)
57-1 CITY
69-1 OMNI2

The other stations available in the GTA show signs of life on the unit's signal indicator when manual tuning. I will most likely purchase a 4/8 bay unit in the future but I have a couple of questions right now if anyone would be kind enough to answer.

If I get signal on this homemade antenna, will a better one (read commercial grade) increase the gain on it?

I'm not using a balun (300 to 75 ohm transformer) and have spliced the leads together. Will a balun increase the gain?

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

TeddyBear178, the short answers to both of your questions is yes. A commercial grade antenna will yield better results than a homemade one unless the homemade one was based on a optimal design. A good balun will also help.

You should go to TVFool, get your results and post the link here. You should also state what side of the building you live on and how high you are up.
Additionally there is a reception results thread for indoor antennas, so you can compare with other people that have indoor setups.

Your results for Buffalo are interesting however. You are getting intermittent reception of 2 and 51, both of which can be problematic to receive(especially 51) compared to the stronger Buffalo stations 4, 7 17, 23, 29 and 49. This sounds promising and with a better antenna you may get the rest of them.

Thanks for the quick response Geo35.

The 2 bay is not based on an optimal design. an old piece of coax, some speaker wire, 2 coat hangers,some wood from a cigar box and a piece of cardboard covered in aluminum foil to reflect. I looked for a balun but couldn't find one.

Here's some further info as per your questions:

To start with, here is my tvfool report (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d267edc05b0000f).

I am on the west side of the building and my view is from 170 degrees true to 350 degrees true. The antenna is 60 feet AGL (579 ASL according to GPS) and aimed approx 175 true.

I have a clear LOS to the Hamilton transmitter but I only get CHCH from there. A building is opposite me from approx 240 degrees to 290 degrees and I think I may be getting some bounce off the building for TO/ WGRZ signals. If I could mount an antenna on the buildings roof, I would have a clear LOS to downtown TO and the Buffalo transmitters.

I have also tried pointing it at CKVR with no joy.

I will be trying to make adjustments on the following system in order to bring back CITY TV

Location: Royal York and Bloor
Antenna: db8 , y5-7-13 (mounted below) cm 7778 amplifier @ 25ft, pointed towards Buffalo
There is stable and clear reception of all CN tower stations as well as Buffalo

My first guess is that the City-tv signal might be over-amplified.
Since access to the roof requires two separate ladders., I am hoping to solve the problem by making adjustments at ground level. I am going to try to add a splitter in order to weaken the signal.

Any other suggestions?

7778 may be to strong for your location , you should be using something like Winegard 269 preamp.

I'd consider adding a rotator. It would barely be needed, but when CityTV is acting up, just give the set-up that extra five or ten degrees it needs. With a rotator, every channel is peaked - instead of having to find a sweet spot.

I also plan to change pre-amps to the Winegard 269 this summer, but since they're about the same price, I'd go with the rotator since it's guaranteed to work and there are other side benefits.

...
My first guess is that the City-tv signal might be over-amplified.
...
How did you reach this conclusion? City, Omni 1 and Global all come from the same antenna on the CN Tower with 20, 20 and 100 Kilowatts of power, respectively. If overload is the problem, Global should be in trouble, not City. City is the only station with an adjacent channel in operation, WNED on 43 immediately below City on 44. This isn't usually a problem but might be worth consideration.

If you provided some signal strength and signal quality numbers for physical channels 41, 44 and 47, some forum members might be able to suggest a solution.