This may be heresy to some folks, but are you sure that you need to receive Canadian channels? Outside of the CBC and news from CTV, City and Global there isn't much on Canadian channels that isn't available from US channels. So if you can get all of the Buffalo channels then your wife may be happy, especially if she doesn't watch hockey.

I find that the CBC is the easiest channel to receive so if that is your biggest worry then I am guessing that you will still be able to receive it.

There's a lot more movies on the Canadian channels, and the Buffalo channels that have them like WBBZ and Ion are hard to get.

Badfun,

There's a chance you'll have some problems with some of the Canadian channels, but I'd be surprised if you got none of them. Don't worry about it. Just install the antenna. Everything will work out.

Schmerpy,

Do yourself a favor and check to make sure all your connections are good and that there isn't any issues with the lines. I had a very similar situation a few years ago with WGRZ. Eventually I found one of the cable heads connections were not secure properly leading to condensation, so when the temperature was above 0c all is fine, but once it dropped below I would have issues. Once I cut the cable and put a new head on, all was fine. SO, with the temp hovering around 0c and with wet conditions, that could be one of the reasons.

I saw this on WIVB last night at about 10:50pm. I saw some pixelation and turned on my signal meter and it showed 80. It was fine/stable for about 30 seconds, then whammo, went to 0 for a few seconds, then back to about 80 again. Wife was getting annoyed so we switched over to Global to watch the end of the show. Switched back to WIVB at 11:00pm and it was stable at 80. A cruise around the dial showed all other stations seemed stable and strong even with the rain failing (may have been snow flakes by them).

My guess is that it was something at the Tx side. If you saw the same thing Schmerpy, that further convinces me that my guess may be correct.

Hi Wayne, thanks for the response.

I guess I'll just have to try it out and see what results I get. Part of why I'm making the change is because we just get basic cable now, and my wife mostly watches Omni and CityTV. I watch CBC and TVO so I figured what are we paying for?

I'll let you all know how it turns out once I get things set up.
Ken


This may be heresy to some folks, but are you sure that you need to receive Canadian channels? Outside of the CBC and news from CTV, City and Global there isn't much on Canadian channels that isn't available from US channels. So if you can get all of the Buffalo channels then your wife may be happy, especially if she doesn't watch hockey.

I find that the CBC is the easiest channel to receive so if that is your biggest worry then I am guessing that you will still be able to receive it.

Thanks, El Gran Chico. I wondered if it might be an issue with WIVB or the frequency/path between me and it, as opposed to my particular setup. The observation you made is exactly what I see with WIVB on some nights, lately.

What device were you using to tune at the time? I suspect the 7000PAL has some issues tuning that other devices don't. For example, my television receives 36.1 CITS (rock solid) with my antenna pointed at Buffalo. My 7000PAL has never once even detected the presence of that signal!

Elbowgm, my setup is an attic mount, so with temperatures hovering around -5 to 5 degrees C, I don't think my setup is subject to any near freezing temperatures.

We are close to the lake and facing south, but the CN tower is blocked by condo buildings. Will I still be able to pick up the signal?

Also, I assume I need a second antenna to aim toward Buffallo. Is it advisable to combine two different kinds of antenna?

One advantage I have is that our house overlooks all of the neighbours houses, so until the Condos there is no interference. The condo's are about 400m away.

Given your location a single antenna without rotor should suffice (at least try that first).

I'm a few km north of you, and I've got stacked CM4221s pointed at Buffalo and manually aimed to maximize ABC's signal (a single 4221 worked almost as well). All of the Toronto UHF stations are also picked up with no further effort. If you do the same thing you'll probably be ok, esp. if you avoid a highly-directional antenna like a CM4228.

One thing I did have to do was add a small VHF antenna (really just two 31" lengths of thick wire screw-capped to a balun) to get CFTO and CHCH (both are VHF-Hi). It's just taped to the antenna cable at the side of the house and joined with a simple splitter - nothing fancy.

@digitalforumguy,
thanks, I think that is exactly what I am going to do. I was looking at getting a deep fringe type, but concerned about installing an antenna that large. I am most likely going to do a gable mount, which will give me the most height and the shortest run to where the tv actually is.

I read through the Antenna chart again and realised that the 4221HD is probably going to work fine. It say 'modified' on the chart so I am assuming it is something like what you have done.

I did some mapping and compass reading and figure the CN tower is just obscured by the condos; there is actually a gap between them that I will aim for. It is 8.7km away. Grand Island is 80km and I have a more or less clear line of sight.

I'm going to research some mounting hardware next.
Ken

It says modified in the chart because there are modifications one can make to the actual antenna to increase performance...

It is not because it is a modified setup...

I am not sure where or how to post this. For about the last 2 weeks I have lost all reception to the PBS, channel 17 channels. I just did a rescan on my converter box and no 17. CTS channel 36 came in for the first time. I have a samsung HDTV but did not want to scan that so thought I'd try the converter box first. I use it for taping on the VCR. I can't find anything to say that anyone else has lost reception to those channels. I have always had strong reception and now absolutely nothing.

Alina,

I have full reception of all my usual channels.

Once in the past, I lost some channels but did not lose others. It was very weird. But I figured out my problem. I had a weak connection in one of my wires. I had incorrectly installed the RG6 coax cable connector end. Once I found the culprit and replaced it, I was back in business with full reception.

One weak link can destroy your OTA fun. That is why everyone should always use brand-name equipment and quality cable and connector ends.

I hope this helps!

I second what HWP just said. Just like summer can mess with results due to tropo, winter can mess with installs that have faults in them. I too have had a situation where there was damage to an RG6 coax cable head and in the cold months water/snow would get in there and freeze, leading to lost reception. I wound up finding the culprit, re-crimped and never had an issue after that.

I would check all your connections and if possible, bypass any amps or long runs and plug directly into the antenna. Then go from there.

Thanks for your reply. I had to seriously think back to what happened 2 weeks ago. I bought a DTA 5000 to replace the DTA 1100. It would not power off so I returned it and replaced it with the 1100. At the same time my husband decided to remove the cable to the satellite dish which is long dead. He does not get involved in these things. The satellite reciever is still there, unhooked and unplugged, but everything goes through it as a conduit , if you will.

As mentioned above, I've had a weird result this winter too - CBS 4.1 completely gone from my 7000PAL DVR! It can't tune it, period.

At the same time, the signal is normal strength on my Toshiba television (~80% most nights).

Called the place that installed the towere, antenna and rotor 10 years ago. Turned out all I had to do was synch the rotor. 17 is back!!! :D

Hi – I am looking for advice with respect to the type of antenna. I live in mid-town Toronto (Davisville and Mount Pleasant).

See TV Fool report at - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d4033378166e8f6

A technician using a Channel Master 4228HD antenna attached to his vehicle (20 feet high) was able to get excellent signal strength on all stations except those with NM(dB) numbers less than 17.3 and Hamilton stations at 210 degrees (true). Given the narrow reception range of the 4228HD, he pointed the antenna at the Buffalo stations at 148 to 153 degrees (true). With this, reception was excellent on the Buffalo stations and the Toronto stations. There was no reception for the Hamilton stations Sun, E! and CTS. I am not sure if a pre-amp was used but the form provided does state “23 digital channels with amp”. I didn’t see a pre-amp. I only saw what was described as a digital tuner for the old TV that was used to show the reception.

I have installed the mast and RG6 cable. The mast is approximately 25 feet high at its peak and is located at the gable end at the south end of my bungalow. This info was used as the basis for the TV Fool report. Cable length to TV (Sanyo HD LCD-32E3) from proposed antenna location is approximately 80 feet.

As the TV Fool report shows, the CN Tower is 4.2 miles and 181 degrees (true) south. Buffalo antennas are 52 to 83 miles distant and in a band 151 degrees to 158 degrees (true) to the south east.

Antenna recommendations have included a Channel Master 4221HD or 4228HD and an Antennas Direct DB8 antenna and either a Channel Master or Winegard pre-amp. My priorities are Canadian channels (except Hamilton), PBS and then the remainder of the Buffalo channels. As a result, I would be happy with the channels obtained in the test.

My concern is that the Channel Master 4221 and the DB8 may suffer from overloading because of the close presence of the CN Tower and their broader directional beam width.

My inclination is to go with the CM 4228 with its narrower 15 degree beam width and comparable gain - and then point the antenna off to the side of the CN Tower and more directly at the Buffalo stations as was done in the test – and rely upon the strong signal from the CN Tower to compensate for the fact that the antenna is not pointed directly at it. I would be interested in the Antennas Direct DB8 in order to pick up the Hamilton stations but not if it creates an overload problem with the antenna pointed directly at the CN Tower in order to pick up both Hamilton and Buffalo.

Whatever antenna selected I intend to try the antenna first without a pre-amp and then determine what pre-amp (and applicable gain) is required given the strength of the signals received from the antenna over the 80 feet of cable to my TV. I have no current plans to split the signal but may do so in the future.

Any Recommendations?

mpetitchou...I would consider a ClearStream 2, a wonderful antenna that defies its size. You may also want to consider Antenna's Direct new DB2e or DB4e, as they have created some buzz since they were released in November.

mpetitchou,
There is another member located just south of you (St. Clair & Mt. Pleasant) who have tried several different antennas, including the ones you mention.

You’ll get a good idea of how they might perform for you. Have a look at his posts, starting on page 132, post#1973 – if you haven’t done so already.

Bjorn416

Many thanks. I don't recall reading this particular post. I may have seen some of Attach's earlier posts. Nevertheless this post is very telling. My test results were slightly better. For some reason I pulled in ION but like Attach I am more interested in the same stations and would be happy with the stations he gets - and has bolded in his list. Thinking back - I suspect that my test was done without an amp also - but with a stronger antenna (4228HD) and higher elevation. I am just north of Davisville/Mount Pleasant on the rise. Attach also raises the additional concern with respect to trees/leaves. I have the same issue/concern as the test was done when there were no leaves on the trees. There is a pear tree in my next door neighbors yard and some tall deciduous trees in my back neighbors yard (although LOS to CN Tower - not Buffalo). I also have an additional cable run of 20 feet (80 feet in total). I think this seals the deal. I will get a 4228HD and test it without an amp. I read one post that suggested a Winegard HDP-269 which has a relatively low gain for situations where you have good signal strength but may want to overcome additional cable length and an installed splitter. But I guess I will cross that Rubicon when I get to it.

Thanks again & Merry Christmas to you and vap57 for responding to my question.

Don’t have any personal experience with commercial antennas (I built mine), so can’t comment on reception for those.

Attach reported changing his antenna once or twice after the CM 4221HD he reported on in post #1973 (forget what the changes were). Suggest you read his later post and the comments by others, or you can use “advanced search” to isolate his posts only.

I’m just SW of Eglinton & Avenue Rd., so the separation between Toronto and Buffalo stations is only about 12 deg. for me, while yours is more than twice that. For me, the Winegard HDP-269 preamp made my reception worse, but that may have something to do with the lack of separation between strong Toronto stations and much weaker Buffalo ones. You may get better results with a preamp like the HDP-269. You are welcome to try mine, since I’m not using it with my current antenna. Send me a PM (Private Message) with your contact info if you want to try it.

The signal loss caused by an additional 20 ft of coax is negligible. A two-way splitter will cause a loss of 3.5 db.

Merry Christmas to you, too.