I have read all the posts here, and in the other related threads, and still cannot see any logic in the claim that a digital converter STB's tuner can be more "sensitive" than the tuner in ANY recent HDTV with built in ATSC tuner(say within the last 18 months), at least based on the NOISE figures.

As you may know there are two parts to a DTV receiver, the tuner and the decoder chip. While the decoder chips have change significantly, tuner technology has not. Having said that, not all tuners are equal and some are certainly much more sensative than others. Since many people have cable or satilite TV where tuner sensitivity is irrelevant, many TVs use cheap tuners while still use good ones. Similarly, some STBs are made cheaply to keep the price down and use cheap tuners while others use good ones.

As a result some STBs have better sensitivity than some TVs while other TVs may have better sensitivity than some STBs. It all depends which TV and which STB you are comparing.

As a result some STBs have better sensitivity than some TVs while other TVs may have better sensitivity than some STBs. It all depends which TV and which STB you are comparing.

So then the only sure way to find the optimum combination, is to use various TV's in combinations with various converters, (and forget about NOISe Figure, as this is only one factor and a relative one at that), a combersome exercise no doubt...

So then the only sure way to find the optimum combination, is to use various TV's in combinations with various converters,

No. It doesn't matter which TV you use a STB with. When I was talking about TVs, I was referring to TVs without a STB.

(and forget about NOISe Figure, as this is only one factor and a relative one at that), a combersome exercise no doubt...

No. I think you are confusing the issue, though the noise factor of the TV is not important when you are using a pre-amp, as the noise factor of the first amplifier is the most significant.

No. It doesn't matter which TV you use a STB with. When I was talking about TVs, I was referring to TVs without a STB.

yes, just so i understand, the only way to know the optimum performance is to try different STB's with my given HDTV, to know if any STB provides better performance than my HDTV alone.

...assuming my HDTV has the optimum performance as a standalone in comparison to any other given HDTV.

I have an Apex DT250 and I live in low-rise Cambridge. NO SIGNAL whatsoever.

hamid14,

I heard a lot of negatives about the Apex DT250.

In fact at a local retailer here in Montreal, the personnel TOLD me not to buy one, about 1 out of 2 boxes on the shelf had been returned (open box, resealed)!

hamid14 is in the process of getting a proper antenna arranged for his deepest fringe location so we need that to be clarified.

I just finished testing the ability of the Tivax (on my 15 yrs old CRT JVC) to pull in the digital channels available in Montreal, as compared to my 19LG30 HDTV.

Since my now 8-bay antenna is at the cottage, I built a VERY crude antenna in about 1 minute. I used a 30 ft RG6 connected into nothing but 2 x 4" copper wire loops with a balun soldered on...I think only the beer can antenna could be cruder! I placed the loops at 20 ft high,hanging from a window.

Well, the results - the Tivax pulled in all 5 UHF US channels - signal meter from 5-15%. It even pulled in a very weak #43 WFFF-FOX. Albeit some channels were with frequent freez-ups.

Now, as for the 19LG30 - it pulled in 4 out of the 5 UHF US channels - signal meter more stable at 15-25%. Somewhat less freeze-ups. It also tried to pull in the weak VHF #13 WVNY-ABC (but no pic).

Note: Absolutely no change in antenna position occured between tests which were one right after the other.

So not sure what all this means, not sure what I should be impressed by, given the crude antenna I would say signals must be "GOOD" in my area.

Next, I will compare with the COBY-102 converter, and the Apex 502 converter.

Maybe some of you GURUS have comments to shed some LIGHT! thanks

Just wanted to mention I've been browsing some stores in the areas I travel (Eastern Ontario) for these ASTC receiver boxes "Digital over the air set top receiver boxes". Models and prices and features. I won't go into prices or vendors here. I have not browsed this whole thread yet but I'll mention the units I've come across:

Tivax STB-T8 "Digital Analog TV Convertor" (very common, in many stores)
info on box: - Analog Pass thru - Auto Scan - EPG Electronic Program Guide info - Parental Control - 4:3 & 16:9 Aspect modes - CC Closed Captioning - Dolby Digital - Full operation by remote control - Energy Star compliant - NITA certified/qualified for $40 coupon [coupon must be for U.S. only I imagine] - English, Spanish, & French on-screen display
connections on back: 2 RF's for antenna in / out to TV - Ch 3 & 4 output switch - RJ connector for "smart antenna interface" - RCA outputs R/W/Y (component out) - looks like also a DB9 9-pin computer connector


Electronic Master model: DTV 3000 "ASTC Digital TV Convertor Box w/remote"
info on box - HD DTV3000 Express - easy to use - sleep timer - parental controls - DTV Programming guide - Support smart antenna - with analog pass through to view both digital and analog channels
[ The store had one of these set up and working as a display. I played around with it a little, changed channels and viewed the on screen display info. Amazing. The store took an antenna, looked like a 4 bowtie w/reflector rods, on a tri-pod, set it on the sidewalk outside the front door, ground level, with buildings all around, and proceeded to pick up several U.S. digital channels just like that. Pretty stable picture too. Signal level showed one or maybe sometimes two bars out of five]

My browsing of the stores, and reading these threads to learn more on this subject continues. I'll try and share appropriate info.

here is the DIY antenna im using for testing the digital converters...


http://s638.photobucket.com/albums/uu110/stanicet/?action=view&current=IMG_0352.jpg

[ The store had one of these set up and working as a display. I played around with it a little, changed channels and viewed the on screen display info. Amazing. The store took an antenna, looked like a 4 bowtie w/reflector rods, on a tri-pod, set it on the sidewalk outside the front door, ground level, with buildings all around, and proceeded to pick up several U.S. digital channels just like that. Pretty stable picture too. Signal level showed one or maybe sometimes two bars out of five]

Where did you see this display? I would love to check it out!

Roger1818, hope it's ok to mention actual vendors here, anyway, here goes.

It's in Brockville Ontario. I travel between Ottawa and Kingston frequently enough - on my days off - and Brockville is a nice stop for me half way in between. It's a small electronics fix it store on the main downtown street in Brockville that runs parallel to the river:

Kinda Electronics, 176 King Str. W. Brockville, Ontario, CANADA K6V 3R5
tel 613-342-9098 fax 613-342-4764

[ FYI - King St is Hwy 2 running thru downtown Brockville ]

Proprietor's first name is Ahmad.

(I also have his email address on a receipt I have, but I won't post that publicly here)

(just a few store fronts down/west of the Tim Horton's coffee shop in beautiful downtown Brockville)

Looks like he fixes and sells all sorts of stuff - used and new.

FYI - If you go to Brockville - gas prices are usually a fair bit less than Ottawa. An extra bonus. Also, Brockville by the river is absolutely beautiful on a nice summer day. Down round the marina, just a few blocks south of the store. If you go - Enjoy!

( I'm checking out places all round Eastern Ontario, where I travel, and I might pop over to the U.S. some time too - if I get interesting info I'll post it )

I live in Cambridge, ontario and i have a apex dt250. It keeps saying "no signal"! what should I do? Would an s-video cable be better than rca cables?

hamid14, it says "no signal" very simply because you are out of range of any digital signals due to your lack of a proper antenna.

We've already been discussing your situation in this thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=94075

Make sure to get your new SBGH antenna(s) built and then we'll see if you can pick up signals. Using coat hangers and beer cans for antennas is a waste of time where you are. Until then, there is no point in discussing why your Apex box says "no signal". :)

I received the COBY DTV102 converter and compared it to the Tivax ST8.

The Tivax pulled in one more channel than the Coby. And the Tivax showed higher by 10%-20% on the signal meter for 4 of 5 channels.

Not sure if one signal meter can be compared to another though :confused:.

Does the Tivax have HD output? What model is it?

Does the Tivax have HD output? What model is it?

from what ive read so far, NO. It provides standard definition picture. It is the STB-T8. These types of converters convert digital (SD and HD) signals into ANALOG (SD) signals for viewing on an ANALOG TV.

You cannot even compare the quality of the resulting SD analog signal on the analog TV to a HD signal on a an HDTV!

Craig is one of the decent 80s brands that sold their name to Chinese importers.

What I'd like to see is a Pulser brand converter box.

Sheesh, Pulser!!! Not to mention Candle and Concerto too, eh? :D

I haven't any idea which chipsets are in the RCA and Craig boxes, but for the low cost I might just pick one up for poking around in it on my shop table.

Sheesh, Pulser!!! Not to mention Candle and Concerto too, eh? :D

And we can't forget Lloyds.... :)

I haven't any idea which chipsets are in the RCA and Craig boxes, but for the low cost I might just pick one up for poking around in it on my shop table.

While borrowing the RCA box, my thoughts are it's an OK box. We just won't talk about my antenna... Which is due to be upgraded shortly... :^)

Cameron