I know that all TV's in the US for about 5-6 years have had to have an ASTC tuner built in.

In the U.S., they were still permitted to sell old stock with NTSC only tuners, provided they were clearly identified as such at point of sale. However, to my knowledge, Canada has no such law requiring ATSC tuners.

Recently got a Toshiba 32C100U; decent digital tuner. It had a good signal information display, though - signal strength, RF channel and SNR. The analog tuner sucked, though - the picture would bounce around the screen as if it was in a box.

Returned that one, and ended up with a 32 inch Samsung - LN32D450. Good tuner - no better than the Toshiba and analog is much better. Compared to a DVR I have, it is much better at analog noise reduction (from a GE amplifier). It completely rejects it. Signal information is good, although it only gives you a bar (1-10 I believe) readout of the signal strength/quality combination. It also gives you the physical channel, and a precise SNR - i.e. 20.3db.

Interestingly, on all the TVs I've bought recently (incidentally, all 32in LCDs) all of the tuners seem to be of the same quality - none can pick up channels that another cannot. Mind you, it's not as if I have many channels to test, and my weakest channel is currently broadcasting from a temporary antenna, so I can't do fair comparisons.

@FrankDrakman

You can be pretty sure that any TV you buy in Canada now must have an ATSC tuner, simply because it is law in the US and we get the same products they do. Interestingly, my local Futureshop uses an in-house OTA feed to their TVs, so all of their TVs (including the Dynex ones) must have ATSC tuners. I believe this also goes for Best Buy, although I have not been in one recently. The last one I entered was set up the same way, though.

You cannot be sure, especially if you are looking for cheap TVs from discount stores or department stores (not that we'd be looking a cheap TVs ourselves), although it there is a better chance of getting an ATSC capable TV then there was a couple years ago, from middle to low end brands.

Case in point, the smaller Hisense TVs at Canadian Tire, their published specs do not mention an ATSC tuner. Not that I'd buy that brand.

I should have clarified that I was referring to big box stores, such as Best Buy or Futureshop. Even Best Buy's cheapest TV online (19" Dynex for $170) has an ATSC tuner.

Although, to be honest, I shouldn't be surprised Canadian Tire can get away with selling something without a digital tuner.

Found it! Looks like Sanyos have a problem with it.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=725762&postcount=72

BTW, for those who will receive both, when we enter "51.1" on our remotes on Sept. 1, which channel is going to show up?? :confused:

Well my 8 year old Sanyo has no problem with more than one station mapping to same number.If you use digital add on instead of a rescan you dont wipe out any of the previous channels.

Still it is an easily avoided needless problem. Not everyone is as technically astute as you Rob. I can see many people getting frustrated by this when they hit 51.1 and the "wrong" 51.1 shows up.

I wonder if online program guide applications will handle this properly? :confused:

This remapping nonsense needs to be addressed properly by the FCC and the CRTC and IC. This can be the equivalent of signal interference on either side of the border.

You can't expect people to struggle with their gear because of this. Nor can you expect them to spend even more money to upgrade their gear to a TV that can handle the problem.

A problem that should not be in place to begin with.

I think all OTA users agree channel remapping causes problems and confusion.We all wish it would stop.I never hear someone say watch channel 9 they more likely say CTV or CFTO or there cable 8 number.

I did some research on the ATSC site to understand the virtual channel number issue. The document covering this subject is A/65:2009: Program And System Information Protocol For Terrestrial Broadcast And Cable. Two points are key to virtual channel numbering.

First, every DTV transmitter has a unique TSID (transport stream identifier) issued in the US by the FCC. Two blocks of TSID numbers are allocated to Canada which are presumably administered by Industry Canada. If you check some of the technical submissions available on the CRTC web site you can get the assigned TSID. For example, CFTO is 43A3 and CKVR is 4285 (hex numbers).

Second, the FCC requires the broadcaster to use a virtual number with the major portion the same as the analog TV channel number. So, if you are channel 12 analog you must use 12.x as your virtual channel number. I don't know if Industry Canada has adopted this requirement.

So, in the US there is no problem with conflicts of virtual channel numbers within a market or with adjacent markets because of the requirement to use the original analog channel number. There won't be a problem in Canada or along the border if Canadian broadcasters follow the FCC rule.

With respect to television set operation, a well designed tuner system would use the TSID internally to uniquely identify each TV station. Even a television set located between two markets receiving 12.1 on physical channel 12 would be able to recognise that two different stations were received.

The whole virtual channel system in the US has been properly designed to allow TV stations to continue with their channel branding established over the last half century or more without causing technical problems. If Canadian stations follow the FCC rules there won't be problems in Canada either.

Second, the FCC requires the broadcaster to use a virtual number with the major portion the same as the analog TV channel number. So, if you are channel 12 analog you must use 12.x as your virtual channel number. I don't know if Industry Canada has adopted this requirement.

So, in the US there is no problem with conflicts of virtual channel numbers within a market or with adjacent markets because of the requirement to use the original analog channel number. There won't be a problem in Canada or along the border if Canadian broadcasters follow the FCC rule.My problem happens to specifically be with US channels… Here in Ottawa, WPBS-DT broadcasts on UHF channel 23 and maps to virtual PSIP channel 18.1, and WNYF-LD broadcasts on UHF channel 18 and maps to virtual PSIP channel 28.1. So if I do a channel scan, and at that time WPBS-DT (18.1) is found but not WNYF-LD, then my Samsung TV does not allow me to later tune in WNYF-LD manually (18).

And, BTW, WCFE-TV is also on channel UHF 38 and maps to virtual PSIP channel 57… it doesn’t appear your FCC "requirement" holds any water?

BTW, WCFE-TV is also on channel UHF 38 and maps to virtual PSIP channel 57… it doesn’t appear your FCC "requirement" holds any water

Unless I'm missing a reference, I don't see how this statement violates the FCC requirement. Wasn't WCFE's original analog channel 57? GeorgeMX is absolutely right on this one.

Fota,
Try using 18-0 to force the tuner to try the physical channel. If you just use 18 then the tuner will try the first station starting with 18 in the memorized list. BTW, the FCC requirement came from a document on the ATSC web site.

My misunderstanding, really sorry. Edit: yes, thanks GeorgeMX, that works! (wouldn't of thought of trying -0)

Does anyone know how to re-map a single channel in a 2-year old sony Bravia 26 inch model?

This evening during tropo conditions while scanning for new digital channels, WSYR RF-17 PSIP 9.1 & 9.2, overwrote the PSIP mapping for CFTO RF-40 PSIP 9.1. CFTO became 40.4 and WSYR became 9.1. It is nuisance to have to remember that CFTO Channel 9 is now on channel 40.4

How can I restore CFTO to its proper location without doing a full re-scan? (A full re-scan also erases the manually added channel names that I would rather not to have to re-create for the 30+ digital channel that I can get). Thanks for your help.

RE: Sony's and "auto-program"...sometimes that's the only thing that works. You would think you could have the option of manually adding a channel, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I've been down that road more than once. ...re-labeling, showing - hiding, etc., takes me over an hour.

I know that with my Sony (only around a year old), if there is a digital channel in the memory and you repeatedly tune to it, but receive no signal, the TV will erase the channel. Try unplugging the coax connection and tune to both of those channels. Once they're gone, just tune in the RF for CFTO.

Hope this works.

cpt/levi,
is there a means to delete unwanted channels? My LG LCD can Autoprogram or Manually add to OTA DTV, OTA Analog, CATV Analog, CATV Digital. It also lets ya manually delete 'em if ya want.

Just a hint, I find it worth being a little bold when at the electronics store, shopping for TV's. When the salesman comes by, politely tell him ur just lookin (in my head means "beat it buddy"). Not many people will grab the remote and actually dig thru all the menu's etc. But I would, if I'm spending 500 - 1000 bux, I wanna make sure it works the way I want it. If ya don't take advantage of having it right in front of u while at the store and test drive it, ya may as well shop thru a catalog or online where ya can't touch it.

Might avoid some of the frustration some have with crappy user interface S/W in their TV.

As far as I know, tuning in to a station several times with no signal (or an unlockable one - i.e. too weak) is the only way to delete a channel, at least with my Sony. The options in the menu only allow you to hide them, not delete. If you punch in the virtual channel number (i.e. in my area, 3.1 for RF 22) they still show up. To be fair, though, I've never really tried to delete a channel - my method to delete a channel is simply something I noticed when moving the antenna around, and I thought it might help wire_in_the_sky to delete them both and then add CFTO manually.

I know for a fact that the Sony does not change channel assignments after first receiving the channel. In my area, CFCF screwed up and it would show up as digital channel 1.0 CFCF_AS. Later on, they fixed it, but I had to rescan for it to show up as 12.1.

Hey guys, I've run into a bit of an issue and was hoping someone here can help.

I've been using a set top box for several years to pick up digital channels at my trailer in Dunnville. I get quite a few channels and am happy with it.

Recently I've decided to switch to an LCD with a built in ATSC tuner.
The porblem is, it finds no digital channels.
Thinking it was the TV (a cheap Colby from CT) I took it back.
Then I tried a Dynex from Future Shop, then a Toshiba from Future Shop.
None of them find any digital channels.
As soon as I hook up the set top box I get at least 11 channels. But the box converts them to analog and sends them out a coax cable. Not the best solution when using an LCD tv.

Any help or advice would be appreciated!