This post is for people that have bought an LG PS-series TV in the last year or so, and are using the on-board tuner to receive signals OTA

- I have an LG 60PS60 plasma, that I bought in July 2009.
- I use an antenna (Channel Master 4228) to capture the local Canadian stations that broadcast from Mount Seymour in Vancouver.
- I am experiencing trouble with receiving Global TV (channel 8-1). When I first tune into the channel, I lose audio within 10 seconds. To recover I need to change stations to any other station, then I come back and full audio is returned.

Here's the clincher. A co-worker, who bought the same TV, at the same time, also has the same problem, and he lives in a different part of the city (Burnaby, I live in Coquitlam).

We've contacted the local LG-authorized repair depot, and they did come by both our homes and replaced the main board, the problem still persists. The local repair depot says it's a problem that only LG can offer a solution. Even THEY are getting the run-around with LG Canada.

Both my co-worker and I have other HDTVs in our homes with no reception problems with Global TV, or any other channel.

Are there any other LG TV owners out there in the Vancouver area, that are using OTA, that have similar problems?

Thanks TechieFreak for the warning about your difficulties. I would caution you to not assume that there is a problem with the LG set at this time since they are the de facto "stewards" of the ATSC Chipset (since the time that they bought Zenith, the prime developers of the 8VSB TV system) so LG's PSIP data handling has always been darned near perfect. Do you have an understanding of how PSIP data (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=49384) and channel remapping (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=377665&postcount=15) works? Here are some troubleshooting tips to consider before talking to LG about your set:

My first instinct is that the problem exists with CHAN-DT's PSIP data implementation and your LG TV's handling of it. Owners of other ATSC devices have reported problems with CHAN-DT's PSIP data in the past
Does that model of HDTV have a signal strength and/or SNR meter on it? It would be valuable info to know what numbers you see on all the Vancouver DTV stations to compare.
Since you are in Coquitlam and your friend is in Burnaby (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=41173), there may be local reception conditions causing problems with that one station locking in - its worth investigating

1. This may or may not be a problem with PSIP. Either way, losing audio when you tune into a station is just unacceptable. Other TVs don't appear to exhibit this issue. I know of two TVs that happen to be the same model, showing this problem.
2. The signal digital signal meter for LG TVs is a bar that goes from Poor to Fair to Good. For Global-TV on my affected LG TV, the bar goes into the "Good".
3. If there are local reception problems, why don't my Samsung, K-World and Hauppauge tuners have problems with the same channel. Also, my co-worker's Olevia TV is fine with the same signal.

Hi Stampeder,

I am TechieFreak's afore mentioned friend and I had a couple of things to add.

I live in North Burnaby on top of a hill, I can see the transmitters on Mt. Seymour out my window and according to google earth I am about 9km away from them. The only thing between me and the transmitters is the wall of my apartment (wooden building, I am on the 3rd floor). I can't think of a more ideal position to pick up the local OTA channels other than putting my antenna outside (not allowed by the landlord, no dishes allowed either :( ).

I haven't looked at the signal strengths for my channels in a while but from what I remember they are all above at least 70% of the strength bar on the TV.

I also have a Hauppauge 950Q USB based tuner that I can hook up to the same antenna (I haven't noticed any audio issues with that). Can you provide any information (links etc) on how I might be able to learn more to tell if it is a PSIP problem? Is there software that can pull that kind of thing out of the stream or anything? Should I try contacting Global about it or something?

Thanks

I also have a Hauppauge 950Q USB based tuner that I can hook up to the same antenna (I haven't noticed any audio issues with that). Can you provide any information (links etc) on how I might be able to learn more to tell if it is a PSIP problem? Is there software that can pull that kind of thing out of the stream or anything? Should I try contacting Global about it or something?

hi, you can download a lite version of tsreader at the link below.
The Full Version has more features, but big $$.
The lite version should be good enough for seeing some stream
attributes. This second link I use once in a while as a reference.
http://www.etherguidesystems.com/Help/SDOs/ATSC/Syntax/TableSections/Default.aspx


Since you have a Pc based tuner to play with have you noticed anything
flakey on the offending channel when using the various pc based tuner sw?
Flakey as in Any difficulty setting codecs, or scanning in the station, etc?


http://www.tsreader.com/tsreader/index.html

If there are local reception problems, why don't my Samsung, K-World and Hauppauge tuners have problems with the same channel.It would have been wonderful to have that amount of detail right from the start. :) My approach to this issue is now completely different.

The TSReader software is ideal for detecting data anomalies from the source, so if there are none shown by it then all evidence points to a problem with that model of LG TV and it would be nice to collect the experiences of others with the same TV.

New development in this issue of no sound on LG TVs, receiving Global-HD OTA...

When the audio cuts out, I turn on the TV's speakers and I do receive audio. It's only through the TV's Digital audio out (TOSLINK) that the audio is not working. This is obviously a problem beyond the tuner, yet the problem is unique to the frequency of Global-HD only, as the other channels work flawlessly.

There is no other output, digital or analog, so the fibre cable is the only way that an audio signal can pass from the TV's tuner to a home theatre audio system.

It has got to be some quirk of CHAN-DT's audio signal causing the audio processing on your LG set to barf. TechieFreak and Squibbles, have you experimented with turning SAP, closed captioning, etc. on/off and seeing if any change happens?When the audio cuts out, I turn on the TV's speakers and I do receive audio. It's only through the TV's Digital audio out (TOSLINK) that the audio is not working.That's significant, because generally on HDTVs the internal speaker audio is processed from the data stream into 2.0 output (usually Dolby Digital or Dolby Pro Logic II) while the original DD5.1 audio signal is simultaneously routed through the SPDIF (TOSLINK) output in pristine condition.

Some food for thought: CHAN-DT's transmitter gets its digital feed from Global's Calgary Operations Centre over fibre (even for Vancouver-produced programming like the news) so it would stand to reason that since all Global DTV stations are getting the same from the same source, Canadians in other cities would see/hear the same problem.

I've recently decided to go only OTA and go toss my satellite, my tuner was working great for 2 weeks yesterday I re-hooked up my rotor and tuned in about 19 channels in HD.

This morning I'm only getting about 40% max and every time I turn on my receiver a fan turns on and then throttles down I could sometimes here the audio come in on a HD channel but then disapears. On my satellite receiver I get roughly 80-100%.

I think I might bring my TV in for a warranty repair however I was wondering if anybody has seen this issue before.

The setup was working perfectly fine when connected to my Bell 9200 Receiver, after cancelling my satellite and moving the antenna cable from my receiver to my PRO-930 receiver everything was working great (And the HD signal were much clearer) however yesterday everything just stoped working and my receiver was receiving most signals at less then 40%. Now I can receive standard def signals ok but no HD.

My OTA setup includes a Channel Master 4228 antenna and a Channel Master 9537 rotor the antenna is mounted on my chimney with a clear line of site of Toronto and Buffalo.

I'm just wondering if this is a known issues with Pioneer TVs.

Finally got off my butt and took a little bit of a further look at what might be going on.

As you suggested I tried playing with the closed captioning on CBUT while the audio was acting up. Turning on and off the captions did not make a difference. Anything that made the TV refresh the audio did seem to fix it though, so changing audio modes in the menu would also restore audio on the channel (e.g. toggling between mode normal/music/movie/etc). This is not surprising I suppose.

I also tried out the TSReader program. I can't say I really know how to interpret the results...
CHAN-DT Report (http://squibbles.org/downloads/chandt.htm) (Global)
CBUT-DT Report (http://squibbles.org/downloads/cbutdt.htm) (CBC)

Thanks for that, Squibbles. The fact that you can manually trigger your LG set to use the proper audio stream when it doesn't do so automatically is significant, meaning that the data is indeed available for processing but is not being handled properly from the onset. Usually that's a sign of PSIP table formatting problems.

As you can see, in all the tables regarding audio the CHAN-DT output seemed to have lesser or smaller entries than the CBUT-DT did, so its possible that this is significant to your LG set.

If possible you should take TSReader samples from either/all of CIVT-DT, CHNM-DT, or CKVU-DT to see how well their audio tables are populated. If it looks like CHAN-DT is not up to par then that might be something to email them about.

Just a tip - is it possible to edit out all the EIT program info before posting the TSReader output? :) We're not concerned about the EIT data, which is that large section of future program info that fills up your TV's EPG, so we can just ignore all that stuff for troubleshooting.

sphinx, I'm pretty well certain that the issues are in your local situation with your location, OTA gear and/or setup.

Pioneer doesn't make their own ATSC components - they buy them in whole from LG, Samsung, or maybe another source and then install them into their sets. As a brand, Pioneer has not been flagged here as having general ATSC problems. :)

Alright, I'll try some other stations and see how the audio streams compare. And good tip about turning off the guide data. When exporting from that program there was a bunch of options for what to include and I just checked everything to start with but I'll see if EIT is one of the options you can uncheck :)

Stampeder, Odd thing is though when I hook up the satellite receiver(On the ATSC antenna) and search for channels I get about 80%+ on most if not all US stations CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX and even CTV HD and CBC HD this is primarily why I'm pointing at my pioneer set and not my OTA setup. I've had no issues for 4 years and it's curious that when I remove the 9200 out of the picture stuff just doesn't work correctly

Maybe mine is an isolated incident, thank god for extended warranties, I'll let you guys know what the local TV place has to say..

Thanks for the responses

Yep, that would tend to point directly at your Pioneer set. :eek:

Ok, I'm back with results for all my local channels now...

The Problem Channel:
CHAN-DT (http://squibbles.org/downloads/chandt.htm) - Global
CHAN-DT (2) (http://squibbles.org/downloads/chandt2.htm) - Global (Trial 2)

Everything Else:
CBUT-DT (http://squibbles.org/downloads/cbutdt.htm) - CBC
CBUT-DT (2) (http://squibbles.org/downloads/cbutdt2.htm) - CBC (Trial 2)
CHNM-DT (http://squibbles.org/downloads/chnmdt.htm) - OMNI
CIVT-DT (http://squibbles.org/downloads/civtdt.htm) - CTV Note: This one is quite large since I let it run longer for some reason... about 2 megs
CIVT-DT (2) (http://squibbles.org/downloads/civtdt2.htm) - CTV (Trial 2)
CKVU-DT (http://squibbles.org/downloads/ckvudt.htm) - CityTV

Just an update on my post above concerning an issue with my ATSC tuner, turns out it's the tuner and Pioneer will be replacing the media receiver.

That's good news that they'll be replacing it - let us know how it goes.

I got a Sharp Aquos LC52D65U and the tuner is not recieving any digital station. I am in toronto. the antenna is an CM4221HD, mounted at 55 feet above the ground. all it gets is analog and with poor reception. on a digital station I get Failed To receive Broadcast signal E202... I had probe around google. and found that I am not the only one having this issue. what can resolve this problem. with a stand alone unit. it is perfect operation with the antenna. geting 7.1 11.1 and so on... anyways. get back to me.

Duesouth, I haven't googled the problem myself but is there a menu item to change from Cable to Antenna to do the scan? If so, make sure it is set correctly to the latter.