: ATSC Tuners In HDTVs (see Samsung Poll)
2009-12-26, 03:35 PM
If you switched your TV tuner to Cable, hooked it up to a Cable TV connection and then ran a Cable scan then you would get your local Cable TV provider's basic stations (about 70 of them) and one or two Clear QAM (unencrypted) digital channels too.
But, if you were to hook up a good OTA antenna system to your TV and run an Antenna scan you would be able to pick up Buffalo, Toronto, and Hamilton stations in real digital, usually in HD, and also the remaining Canadian analogue stations too. This thread covers OTA reception in your area: ON - Niagara Peninsula - OTA (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=36534)
Your pick. :)
2009-12-26, 03:40 PM
Hmm, I already get digital channels without any antennas though
I know for a fact I get some Toronto channels, because as I was flipping I kept seeing Toronto and such.
The channels are like 104.1, 104.2, etc etc..
I also get 2 HD channels
I'm kind of surprised I get all of this with no antenna ??_??
2009-12-26, 03:42 PM
Those are not Antenna channels at all. You are picking up Cable TV channels. I wrote Post #501 at the same time as you wrote #502 so you may have missed it - please read #501 to be clear.
2009-12-26, 03:52 PM
Ooo alright, my bad
I wasn't reading it correctly o.o
Alright, thanks for all the help :D
2009-12-26, 09:09 PM
They are digital channels though. Cogeco in Port Hope does the same thing. Many channels including all sportsnet regions, & TSN are digital clear QAM.
Port Hope doesn't carry any HD in the clear though, but apparently Niagara Falls' carrier does.
2009-12-31, 06:44 PM
So very soon (Saturday) we will have a brand new TV. My dad FINALLY grabbed a widescreen HDTV, after about 12 years with the old RCA TV.
It is a Sharp Aquos 40-inch 1080p LCD HDTV.
I have three questions.
1. Does anyone have any experience with this TV? Does the ATSC tuner display good PSIP/signal information? (Is it displayed in %, or just bars?)
2. Do I stand to lose any channels? With my current setup, we're using a standard Artec DTV converter box, and get all channels minus ION. I know not all ATSC tuners are created equal, but should I expect any changes in signal between the Artec tuner and the built-in one with the HDTV? Does anyone have experience with the performance of this TV?
3. Finally, I realized that LOST will be returning to CTV. I was beginning to think I'd have to tune in to WKBW to get it. I realize WKBW is only 720p, and CTV is 1080p. Will LOST be actually 1080p, or will it be 720p upscaled on CTV? I'm not too sure seeing as CTV probably gets the source from ABC. Which looks better? I get both channels very well so it's no issue switching.
Thanks again, apologies if I posted in the wrong thread.
2009-12-31, 06:59 PM
The HD channels are either 720p or 1080i NOT 1080p.
Whatever you Artec gets I fully expect the Sharp to get just as good if not better. If it doesn't, then get a Samsung HDTV instead :)
AFAIK, the Sharps have no EPG but probably just program name and info and you should post an update what info you actually get.
As for CTV (vs ABC WKBW-HD), their simsub is pretty good in picture quality. I can't say the same for CityHD and the 2 Omnis. I personally prefer watching the CTV feed because my 2 1080p Samsungs overscan 720p. The picture is still tag sharp...I'm just a little anal. There is nothing wrong supporting local channels especially CFTO-HD which makes a good effort in delivering digital OTA.
2009-12-31, 08:00 PM
Ahh. 1080something, I get confused :P Thanks for correcting me.
Haha so I assume there's gonna be no noticeable difference between watching it on ABC or CTV with regards to my TV?
2009-12-31, 08:59 PM
Does anyone have any experience with this TV? Does the ATSC tuner display good PSIP/signal information? (Is it displayed in %, or just bars?)
I recently added a Sharp Aquos 32 inch HD widescreen television to my collection but I am sad to pass on that the Digital and Analog tuner for mine is not as good as my Samsung, and far from good from my Panasonic.
I does have a signal meter that has bars and displays a numerical number (magic number is 40 for a signal) but IMO and experience lags behind the tuners of the other two televisions I own)
The only PSIP info is the channel and station log with current program playing. You cannot change the station call letters to suit your taste! There is even a spot that allows you to change the color and size of the PSIP but it never remembers your new settings even if saved.
Sharp Canada, and Sharp USA have very poor customer service IMO regarding there product.
There is not an add a digital channel feature also.
I mainly use it now as a glorified PC monitor and the kids watch television on it. If I did not get such a great deal on it I would have brought it back and got something else.
Perhaps the higher end Sharp models such as your 1080P version might have a better tuner. Mine has the current version of software and is a 2009 built model. However it is the entry level model.
Hope your fairs better than mine.
Best of luck in the New Year
2010-01-13, 01:47 AM
Was wondering if anybody would like to chip in some comments regarding the signal diagnostics that I have on my Sony Bravia (seems pretty extensive and might be quite useful for antenna placement)
Here is what the signal diagnostics looks like for one of my available signals:
Channel / Antenna 32.1
Signal Strength / 68
Physical Ch. / 33
Freq (Khz) / 587000
Modulation / 8VSB
Status / Lock
Errors / 0
SNR (db) 24
IF-AGC (%) / 68
Other then the obvious stuff, what is the Modulation information?
SNR (signal noise ratio) number, what is "good" and what is "bad"?
IF-AGC, what does this represent?
2010-01-13, 11:52 AM
Towforce, the first heading is the virtual, remapped channel number as seen on your tuner's Antenna input (as opposed to its Cable input). One of the most critical stats in that list is obviously Signal Strength, and for a Sony that 68 is fine as you are clearly getting a lock, as the Status indicator says is true a bit further down. Just below the Signal Strength reading is the actual, physical RF channel being tuned, along with its frequency below that. Modulation simply means that your tuner knows that the channel in question is using the ATSC (8VSB) broadcast system - if you were in an area near DVB-T signals it would show that and ignore trying to process them. DVB-T is the world digital OTA TV standard except for in North America, so maybe in the Caribbean someone might see that with your TV model.
The more revealing stats are:
the Error rate (BER) of the data coming into the ATSC chipset's data buffers from the station, which in your case is showing as perfect (0), meaning that no packets are being lost en route - the Forward Error Correction (FEC) circuitry can identify and handle small amounts below 30 or so in a usually invisible manner, but high amounts above 100 cause noticeable video and/or audio dropouts
the IF-AGC (Automatic Gain Control) amount, which shows the relative effort your TV's onboard amplification/attenuation circuitry must make to hold the signal to a suitable level - lower is better but as long as you have a lock and a clean BER you are fine - ideally you want the AGC levels of all stations to be at about the same low level to avoid delays in changing channels
the SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) is the gap of good, useable signal over the ambient junk that your tuner has to sift through - a higher value is better (wider gap between good stuff and bad)
Also see Post #17 in the OTA FAQ
2010-01-13, 12:06 PM
I picked up another TV yesterday - Toshiba. Interestingly, it locked on one of my difficult stations - WNYO, about 10-20%. When I checked the Samsung and LG, they couldn't lock on, not even briefly.
2010-01-13, 12:14 PM
The chipsets are different then, either in generation or manufacturer or both. This is all too common it seems as there is overlap between generations and brands.
2010-01-14, 04:43 PM
I stand corrected. My new Toshiba TV does NOT have a better tuner than my Samsung or LG. The reason why the Toshiba could get a lock on a distant/difficult station (WNYO) was because that signal had higher attenuation for that one TV, coming from a longer coax run and more joiners compared to the other two TVs which had shorter runs. I got a lock on WNYO for the other TVs (shorter coax) when I put a UVSJ splitter on after the drop amp.
you scared me when you said Toshiba had a better tuner :eek:, no matter what generation you think, my 2009 LGs have CONSISTENTLY outperformed Samsung, Toshiba, Sony, in terms of picking up weaker stations, AND in terms of overall digital reception consistency, and thats at 3 different locations, and using 3 different set-ups...
2010-01-14, 09:02 PM
Yup, I agree, the LG has a fine tuner. Good TV too.
2010-01-19, 01:47 PM
I came across an odd issue with my Toshiba TV tuner. I was getting the same channels coming through on my signal meter on both the physical and virtual channel number. For example on RF 41 I would get WXYZ Detroit and it would show as virtual 7-1 but then if I went to physical channel 7 on the signal meter it would also lock there and show virtual channel 7-1. This was also WXYZ 7-1. The same thing happened with RF 45, 4-1, RF 15 5-1, RF 36 and 6-1. Is this a flaw in the Toshiba tuners? It's not a big deal now but after the Canadian conversion it could become a problem with channels overwriting each other. Anyone else notice this?
2010-01-19, 02:25 PM
Bark64, I used to get the same thing on an older Sony set but not on the newer ones or my Samsung. How old is your Tosh?
2010-01-19, 04:35 PM
I bought the tv november 2008, it's Toshibas entry level 37 " 720p HDTV. I forget the model number.
2010-01-20, 11:26 AM
I have had the same thing happen on my Toshiba CV37510U (bedroom). And its NOT a problem.
During a Tropo event, I had 2 different 7.1 channels.
They don't overwrite each other, but you can have 2 channels the same number.
My only complaint was/is the manual channel add. Normally works, but if there is already a channel remapped to 23.1, you can't add the channel that broadcasts on RF23. Had to do a complete re-scan, then spend 1/2 hour getting rid of all the garbage channels.