I am looking at a Samsung LN32B460. It also only lists an ASTC/QAM tuner. Can anyone confirm if this set has a ntsc tuner in it to receive analogue cable.
I can confirm it does have a NTSC tuner.

We are looking at getting a new TV. But since, we will only be receiving OTA.

What are the best TV tuners found in common TV? (aka around $1000)

What TV brand usually has the best ATSC tuners for picking up OTA channels?

What TVs have built in guides system? (The Panasonic we have has no guide system).

TIA,
Al

Avoid Samsung due to their PSIP problems (lots of posts in here about that), avoid Panasonic due to their lowball User Interface, and avoid Viewsonics for some of their menu shortcomings.

LG is the owner of the original Zenith-built ATSC standard chipset, which they've upgraded through its 6th Generation with work continuing on the 7th, so it is safe to say that their implementation of ATSC tuners and features is excellent. Some Sony lines are better than their others for OTA.

Most main brand HDTVs tend to use the LG or Samsung ATSC chipsets, with some using AMD/ATIs, some using a few other smaller brands, and there is also a recent line of Chinese-made ATSC chipsets showing up on the market now.

What are the shortcomings of Viewsonic?
We have one, and it's had no shortage of features I would want..
(Granted, to get signal strength and single channel RF scan you need to enter the 991 menu, but that's easy enough)

LG is the owner of the original Zenith-built ATSC standard chipset, which they've upgraded through its 6th Generation with work continuing on the 7th, so it is safe to say that their implementation of ATSC tuners and features is excellent. Some Sony lines are better than their others for OTA.

Most main brand HDTVs tend to use the LG or Samsung ATSC chipsets, with some using AMD/ATIs, some using a few other smaller brands, and there is also a recent line of Chinese-made ATSC chipsets showing up on the market now.

I'm in the market for an HDTV but whenever I ask the salespeople at any of the major stores whether the TVs have a built-in ATSC tuner, they say they 'don't know' or say 'yes' and when we have a serious dialogue its obvious they haven't a clue.

Most irritating is the Best Buys and Future Shop weekly flyers lately all print a caveat that these 'HDTVs must have a cable or satellite box to work'! All of this sounds like these are HD monitors only. So I have no idea if they truly have ATSC tuners. Even the manufacturing sites do not specifically tell you and when you search for ATSC as a search term, they come up blank.

What's the story? I don't want to buy a unit, get it home and hook it up to my OTA antenna and get a blank screen.

When you're in-store, ask for a remote to see what the unit has. You'll most likely see "air", "search for digital channels", etc. or such as a source option, meaning it has a tuner.

I believe all TV's sold in the US need to have one anyway. And I don't think there are many that are sold in Canada alone (if any?), so they should have an ATSC tuner regardless.

if the manufacturer doesnt specify ATSC in the specs it doesnt have one, or should be avoided. I have not seen a manufacturer NOT specify the tuner :o

Avoid Samsung due to their PSIP problems (lots of posts in here about that), avoid Panasonic due to their lowball User Interface, and avoid Viewsonics for some of their menu shortcomings.

LG is the owner of the original Zenith-built ATSC standard chipset, which they've upgraded through its 6th Generation with work continuing on the 7th, so it is safe to say that their implementation of ATSC tuners and features is excellent. Some Sony lines are better than their others for OTA.

Most main brand HDTVs tend to use the LG or Samsung ATSC chipsets, with some using AMD/ATIs, some using a few other smaller brands, and there is also a recent line of Chinese-made ATSC chipsets showing up on the market now.
Have you played with any Samsung HDTVs from the last couple of years ??

Samsung's built-in ATSC tuner is fairly capable (a major selling point for me at least). The sensitivity is top notch. Always correct name/program info and the newest models show what's the next program. There is also a CHannel LIST that is almost like EPG except it is not in grids.

I can see the tropo crowd avoid them as there is no basic way to add a digital channel if the number is already in use. 6 button pushes to get to the signal meter is not good either. Other than that, delete 43.8 & 43.9 along with the redundant analog channels and you're all set.

When you have 20+ DTV channels in GTA, I find it very important to have program info along with correct program names. Channel list/EPG is a very nice feature and the Sammy only has a dumb down version but at least it has one while Sharp/LG/Panny et al don't even have one IIRC.

PS - As seen in the signature, I do have 2 Sammys from the last couple of years but by no means I am a fanboy. Admittingly, I am hard to please but I am very happy with the A550 so I picked up the 2009 A540 as well.

I've based what I wrote on a lot of the reports in this thread (now over 460 posts) so please have a look through it. Also note that the poll in this thread clearly does not reflect general satisfaction with Samsung ATSC tuners in HDTVs.

As for my own experience, LGs and certain Sonys have been terrific for ATSC tuner features and performance. Presently I own 2 Sonys and a Samsung, and the signal performance is about the same on all three, but I've had all sorts of problems with Global Vancouver's PSIP data on only the Sammy. Even my cheapie RCA converter box never has problems with Global, nor do my 2 ATSC tuner cards and 2 ATSC USB devices in my MythTV box.

What are the shortcomings of Viewsonic?

I am not sure what Stampeder was referring to, but I have read that Viewsonics don't do as good a job of upconverting SD material as other TVs, so if there are any analog channels or old VHS tapes (or even DVDs with a regular DVD player) you want to watch this could be an issue. If you are only watching either HD sources or DVDs with an upconverting DVD player, then this won't matter.

Stampeder :

A couple of questions -
1. Model/year of your Samsung HDTV
2. Is there a way to track when the votes were submitted in the Samsung tuner satisfaction poll ? It also comes off odd that there is a Samsung tuner satisfaction poll as there must have been serious dissatisfaction back then :)

Your penultimate post/advice on this thread should apply to more CURRENT PRODUCTS. As you know, things can changes quickly.

I previously owned an LG 42PC5D plasma, basic ATSC tuner that works 99% of the time. But every once in a while, the PSIP data got all mixed up for channels 7.1, 9.1 and 17.x The TV is now in my folks' basement and it still does that occasionally. It is annoying but is not a big deal.

I had seen pictures on line from people who were showing off their OTA receptions (with an older LG TV) and there was a gridded EPG on those!! My 2007 LG42PC5D has zippo, just program name display (not even program detail) when the ENTER button is pressed and nothing else. I check on the current models once in a while by looking online at the PDF specs; I also look at the displays infrequently at big boxes, Costcos, etc and there is no 'EPG' on the newest LG AFAIK. You can pretty much put LG as the same category as Panny for dumb down user interface.

There is unfortunately a slight trend to incorporate less and less features for the built-in ATSC tuners. The features of the ATSC tuner and how well it works is extremely important for me as receiving OTA is easily 75% of my viewing. This is also the excuse I use for ditching the LG to my folks :)
I can bear with no 'EPG' but no program detail is inexcusable (I don't know if the newest LG has program detail but EPG I am pretty sure is not there)

Re : Samsung

I recommended a buddy to get the 22" T220HD. As it turns out, the tuner is fair good in sensitivity and no error is reported. Both my 2 Samsungs have the 'CH LIST' for 8-hr EPG but his T220HD doesn't.

There may not be a better alternative for him when price is considered. I felt bad I made the assumption as I valued the EPG feature.

I am not sure what Stampeder was referring to, but I have read that Viewsonics don't do as good a job of upconverting SD material as other TVs, so if there are any analog channels or old VHS tapes (or even DVDs with a regular DVD player) you want to watch this could be an issue. If you are only watching either HD sources or DVDs with an upconverting DVD player, then this won't matter.
Viewsonic is even harder to pass a comment on...(so AVOID sounds good to me too:))

Their menu(S) are sort of generic that are shared by Chinese manufacturers. AFAIK (from the weekend Costco shopping), some older AKAIs and Viewsonics had almost identical menus. I had seen Viewsonics (same circa) with totally different menu systems.

I had an AKAI plasma before and the ATSC tuner function was actually pretty good except mine probably had a 'broken' Dolby decoder as there were frequent audio problems.

I recall that AKAI had EPG up to a few days (but not in a familiar grid format), full program name/detail.

The poll was posted at this time: 2009-07-17, 07:39 AM

My Sammy is a 6 month old 32" LCD that is used by someone else in my family because I'm fed up with it.

If you're unhappy that the Samsung's are getting a reputation for being troublesome for OTA then I can't help you to try to dispel that.

I just wanted to chime in. I have a new Samsung PN42B450 and I'm quite happy with it.

Pros:

Nice interface
Fantastic channel guide
Nice channel information


Cons (quibbles for me):

Rescan erases all existing channels
One bad channel's time screws up the guide (when on that channel)
Signal meter is graphical only and you cannot change channels when in the meter screen


Prior to this, I had an LG32LH40... the tuner seemed to be just as sensitive, but not having a guide was a big down-side. I returned it due to some audio-synchronization issues over HDMI.

In the end, I'm very pleased with the Sammy!

Viewsonic is even harder to pass a comment on...(so AVOID sounds good to me too:))

Their menu(S) are sort of generic that are shared by Chinese manufacturers. AFAIK (from the weekend Costco shopping), some older AKAIs and Viewsonics had almost identical menus. I had seen Viewsonics (same circa) with totally different menu systems.

I had an AKAI plasma before and the ATSC tuner function was actually pretty good except mine probably had a 'broken' Dolby decoder as there were frequent audio problems.

I recall that AKAI had EPG up to a few days (but not in a familiar grid format), full program name/detail.
Interesting..
They may have switched then?
Ours is coming up 2 years old (wow, already?)
So they may be shipping with different firmwares..
The one ours has is actually something I remarked on when I went to a friend's house who had a Sony (?) or other well-known brand. The interface was identical (in looks).

Noone is unhappy :)

Which brand had the 'best' ATSC tuner was a big question for me. I preferred branded and I narrowed down my choices to Samsung and Sony (maybe Toshiba) as they all had EPG in my model range AFAIK. Features like GUIDE, PROGRAM TIME/NAME, PROGRAM DETAIL are either yes or no, so there is very little to dispute. I consider all 3 info essential but the guide thingie on the Samsung is actually clunky so I don't end up using it that much but it is nice to have. Both my Samsungs (2008 & 2009) work well for the available GTA OTA channels.

I hate to paint Samsung products in a bad way, so I want to be clear that my concerns about their ATSC tuners (specifically about PSIP handling) are based on input from our members and from my own situation. I've said this many, many times in the past but it bears repeating: I am delighted when an OTA product performs to a member's satisfaction. :)

KD34XBR960 tube set (2005 set)
KDL46XBR4 lcd (2008 set)

Couple of weeks ago I ran a scan "add digital channels" on the tube set in the living room. Basic Comcast cable was connected to the cable in. (Love this set...it also has a 2nd input for antenna). To my amazement it found 46.

Ran the same test on the bedroom lcd. Didn't find any new channels. I thought this very strange indeed. So while in the Add digital channels screen I input one of the channel numbers that was showing up on the other set...34.1 thinking I could force it to find a channel...no luck. Hmmmm! So, I exited the "programming" section and tried tuning 34.1 manually....and after a second or two...boom, it appeared. Then I went back into the programming section...show/hide channel..., name channel...., and guess what.... all the missing channels in the 34s were there...., 34.1, 34.2, 34.3, etc. But nothing for 35.1. I had to exit the programming section...tune the channel, 35.1, directly...boom, it appeared. Went back to the show/hide, ...name channel, and there they all were...35.1, 35.2, 35.3, etc.

Crazy isn't it. Just thought I'd share something not included in the instruction book.

The living room tube set, the older set, finds 4.2 Thistv. The bedroom lcd keeps it up at 9.5. With the antenna connected, the tube set remaps 58.8 to 2.1...the lcd, newer set won't...58.8. If you input 2.1 nothing appears.

What does it mean when your signal fluctuates wildly and doesn't get a lock or partial lock (pixelation)? My Samsung doesn't really do this, but my LG TV will do this.

The difficult station is WNYO RF 49.1:

On the Samsung, the signal will flicker 0 bars to 1 bar.

On the LG, the signal will go from bad to good, to excellent and then back to bad. If it's excellent for a brief momment, shouldn't some picture show through?

It's just bad reception.
Your samsung seems to be countering the errors better than the LG, it seems.
There's nothing you can do aside from fine tune antenna (if it's not already), add an amp, etc.
(i.e. the problem isn't your tuner - its a borderline signal)
edit.. well, it IS your tuner, but not being faulty or anything. It's just ever so slightly less sensitive than the samsung one on the same channel.