: NB, NS, PE, NL - Atlantic Provinces - OTA
2011-07-22, 08:02 AM
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you're outside the broadcast contours for digital TV from Halifax (for CBC, CTV, Global) for when they come online. Secondly, none of them have actually started broadcasting in HD yet - Global and CBC will start on August 31 sometime, and while CTV told me they'd like to start sooner they still haven't got their new antennas up. So, wait another month or so and see if you luck out, but don't get your hopes up too high.
2011-07-22, 08:52 AM
damn lol. the antenna i got says itd do 75 miles so i was hoping. umm in the mean time is there any channel that i could try to get now and just see if it could pick it up? if so what channel number would that be?
appreciate your help, i was really hoping for live at five back too lol. thxs, shawn
2011-07-22, 01:29 PM
There's no HD channel currently broadcasting in NS. When they come online Global will be a very low-powered channel 8, CBC will be channel 39, and CTV will be 48.
Your distance to towers is 67mi, and using an indoor antenna really reduces the likelihood of getting a reliable signal - to best improve your odds use good RG6 cable from the antenna to the TV, get the antenna higher up, and make sure there's a minimum of trees, leaves, and houses in its path to the towers. Better still, get or build a really good outdoor UHF antenna. Using an amplifier adds noise to the signal, which can be problematic, especially if there's signal interference and obstacles already messing it up.
As for aim, tune in to one of the Halifax stations (channel 3, 5, 8, 13) and turn your antenna until the picture is the clearest it gets (analogue picture quality can be used to approximate your HD reception quality), or use Google Earth to draw a line from the towers to your place, then zoom in until you can see a landmark (building, hill, bay, island, etc) that is on the line and aim at it.
There's other tricks you can use to try improve your odds, like placing a reflector behind your antenna, but it's unlikely you'll get good signal at that distance with that kind of antenna, regardless of what you do. Even if you got/built an outdoor UHF antenna and put it up at roof level, with a high-quality amplifier and cable system, your odds are still slim, just because of your distance and how UHF travels. In the meantime, do what you can to make the Halifax stations come in their clearest and maybe post a picture of them at their best - sometimes the picture quality will reflect the signal path, but since the current stations are VHF they won't fully model your reception of the UHF HD signal. Either way, you'll just have to wait and see.
2011-07-22, 02:00 PM
Happily, Global has stated it intends to convert all its OTA stations to digital over the medium/long term, so the repeater near to Liverpool should eventually go HD.
If, after the transition date, you find you're having bad luck with the digital stations from Halifax, a good antenna setup could vastly improve reception of the analog repeaters in your vicinity.
2011-07-22, 04:23 PM
shawn_selig29 I sure hope you can get your money back for that piece of junk antenna.
It sure is a shame that you didn't see the following thread first: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=125161 (post again when you've read through the great links and steps to take)
2011-07-23, 04:01 PM
ok thanks for all the replys and help so far, really appreciate it. i have played with the antenaa i got now, i can get channel 12 really good picture and sound with full amplification but ctv and global analog i can only get really snowy with some color and no sound on both.
so im guessing its the antenna being sucky or iam too far away? from reading i read digital signals wont travel as far as analog?
i live in a apartment building so a outdoor antenna is not a option :( but maybe i could get something and stick it by a window? any reccomendations? im going to continue to read on this very informative and helpful forum, but feel free to reply. thanks again everyone, shawn
2011-07-24, 12:14 AM
For the UHF Halifax HD stations maybe a LPDA like the silver sensor antenna or a home-built YAGI antenna might help, but I'd say you're likely too far away for the likely power levels, and your current antenna's little more effective than a sneeze in a blizzard I suspect.
Here's a table courtesy of Stampeder showing good antenna options - google will be your friend for background education, I suspect, and I'm not sure how much inside space you're going to be able to commit to a build, so keep that in mind. http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=824&d=1307813411
Either way you've got some reading ahead of you before you can settle on a good option, but no matter what you pick you may just be too far away.
2011-07-24, 09:32 AM
I still have not seen any digital test signals in this area...still anxiously waiting. Maybe sometime this week as NTV is supposed to be on air the first week of August (if all goes well!). CBC maybe August 1?
One piece of information I just noticed on the OTA Listings page:
CBC (8) Peak power 356000...AvgERP 19600 for analogue
(8) Peak power 14540.....AvgERP 7970 for digital
NTV (6) Peak power 212800...AvgErp 76000 for analogue
(21) Peak power 266000..AvgErp 128400 for digital
Is there a reason for the drastic drop in CBC power (assuming the numbers are correct) versus the increase in NTV. The digital broadcasts are more efficient, but will the CBC coverage area be roughly the same and the NTV area now much larger (and stronger)? I have seen the Digital coverage area map from CBC and it covers most of the Avalon peninsula, does this mean the coverage area is shrinking? I have not seen the present analogue coverage area to compare. I should be in the strong reception area about 30 KM or so from the tower......I hope!
If the new broadcasts are more efficient, would there be any reason for NTV to do the increase in power? Just curious about this......
VHF requires less power than UHF. Since NTV is moving from VHF to UHF, they need to increase power the retain their coverage, while CBC is remaining on VHF and thus can use less power.
Now whether or not the decreased CBC power level is sufficient is another story. VHF has a more difficult time with regard to indoor antennas than UHF does, but on an outdoor antenna, the coverage should be comparable.
2011-07-24, 06:20 PM
I wasn't able to get close enough to have a good look, but it looks like the Halifax CTV tower has a jib crane up at the top to lift their new UHF panels into place. Maybe later this week I'll get out there with a camera, and maybe get closer despite a construction zone and confirm what I saw. It's taken long enough, but it looks like progress!
2011-07-24, 07:39 PM
The difference in the picture between channels should be quite noticeable with SD vs HD....assuming the NTV signal is good in my area...the analogue ch 6 could be quite noisy and weak when the transmitter "drifted" as it had been for the last couple months.
I have lived in the coverage areas of Digital HD OTA signals, and they are nothing short of amazing! I found the Digital+UHF signal much more reliable to pickup on the antenna. Set and forget. No static, ghosting, etc.
I don't believe NTV has their new antennas on the tower yet. I'll update you when they do, then we'll know to watch for some test signals!
2011-07-30, 11:35 PM
I can currently confirm that Global is now broadcasting in digital HD in the Fredericton area!!!! It is 1080i and DD5.1.
It is on channel 44. I am getting it with an all copper wire version of the "Coat hanger" antenna with an SNR of 21 to 22 and a signal strength of 82. This antenna is mounted on the roof.
I will drag my first run GH with no reflector and post the results that I get from inside the house.
EDIT: I tested with my GH and got an SNR of 23-25 and the signal strength went to 100. One thing for sure though is that the GH is indeed fairly directional. It dipped to only 80 or so on signal strength when only 15 degrees off axis from when it is at 100. But that is plenty fine for me and if anything, I will have to sacrifice a little when the other 2 channels come online as they are not broadcast from the same direction as the Global one.
2011-07-31, 02:04 PM
In St. John's it seems that NTV doesn't even have its new antennas mounted on the tower yet, so I assume they will be slightly delayed past August 1... CBC, I guess we'll be finding out very soon if they are ready to go!
2011-07-31, 03:54 PM
@que3jxp: Awesome news! Thanks for sharing.
Is Global Fredericton still operation in analog on Channel 11 or is that station off now?
2011-07-31, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the "visual?" update on the NTV antenna. I wish they would get the process completed....to paraphrase a famous song...I want my NTV HD. I am getting tired of seeing 0 digital channels when I do a scan!
I have not seen any notices on local CBC switching on Aug 01 (or anything other than the country-wide announcements for things going dark on Sept 01.) I wish there would be some more information on the dates....at least NTV has a decent explanation of what is happening with SD to HD, a general time frame (but no recent updates!) and what new equipment may be needed. CBC, nada, no dates, no info on local switching to SD or HD. Maybe I should have another look, but I doubt it.
I have seen people buying the boxes (I will need two for older sets) and there were apparently many calls about TV set problems at my A/V dealer on the day NTV went off air. There were some out there who did not understand the reasonably detailed NTV ads....they may not even expect the changes from CBC!
2011-07-31, 04:11 PM
Awesome news! Thanks for sharing.
Is Global Fredericton still operation in analog on Channel 11 or is that station off now?
It is still on and the CRTC or whatever it is site shows that they will flip off the analog channel at EOM Aug. It is one dramatic comparison looking at the HD vs. analog. After a few looks, I went into the TV and blocked the analog channel from the Ch up/dn.
Needless to say, I will be ordering a SiliconDust HDHR ASAP and getting TV tuning back into full swing on my SageTV(Now Google Owned) setup. Been waiting a LONG time to do this!!!!
2011-07-31, 05:13 PM
What is the Global HD station in Fredericton mapping as? 11.1 or 44.1?
Also, any info on the power output of this station?
2011-07-31, 05:21 PM
It is coming in on 44.1 right now. I wonder if it will move when they turn off the analog...
2011-07-31, 07:03 PM
From Stampeder's mirror of the Industry Canada database:
NB Fredericton AU 44 CIHF-DT-1 460226 -662924 163.5 76 28000 15000
Max ERP = 28 kW
Avg ERP = 15 kW
HAAT = 163.5 metres
2011-08-01, 08:28 AM
Glad to know there were some viewers concerned about NTV going off air.. at least they have time to prepare now before CBC goes as well.
Please forgive my mistake, I incorrectly stated the transition dates.. for CBC I didn't mean to imply that they were switching on Aug 1.. I meant Sept 1! Got myself confused.
As for NTV, they originally planned to be on air during the first week of August, so there is still a possibility they could meet that deadline.
I haven't heard much from CBC either.. I thought I saw them running commercials about the transition though, in which they show a picture of a satellite dish while referring to an OTA antenna, LOL! Way to confuse everyone.
There is also this website: http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/dtv/ (which seems quite difficult to find)