Who dat panting. ;)

At least I can get WB49 from regular analog signal from the antenna setup. :)

jeneral the reason why you get low signals with the indoor 4228 is one it very directional compared to the little Silver Sensor.

The 4228 need to be vertical to get the max strength. With the antenna being so low its not at the right elevation angle.

Hope I made sense.

Yaamon isn't the only one panting. I'm a big fan of Everwood and Gilmore Girls and would love the chance to see the shows in HD.

Speaking of the 4228. I bought one a little while ago and I'm waiting for the weather to get a little cooler before mounting it on the roof. The other day, I was playing around with it indoors and was very unimpressed. The signal levels weren't much higher than my Silver Sensor clone (shipped with my ATI HDTV Wonder) and it was VERY directional. Considering it is supposed to get more than double the gain of the SS, I'm a little underwhelmed by its indoor performance. Any idea why the low signal levels?

Hi Jeneral.

I'm currently assembling the pieces for my own HTPC using the ATI HDTV Wonder. A friend of mine has a 4228 that he hasn't installed yet and I was going to do the very test that you've already done, comparing the Silver Sensor to the 4228 from the same location.

IIRC, you used to use a small Radio Shack indoor amplified antenna. Have you compared the 4228 to the RS antenna?

Also, were you planning on installing a rotator? When I looked at the 4228 reception graph, it looked like the 4228's signal strength performance would fall to Silver Sensor like (or less) performance if the HDTV transmitter was more than 20 to 30 degrees off from the 4228's main axis of reception. That might explain the low signal strength result you're seeing from the 4228. A ten degree difference in pointing might make a large difference in received signal strength.

I'm been thinking about trying the Silver Sensor first and possibly adding the wider reception angle 4221 if the Silver Sensor wasn't able to pull in the Buffalo stations. I might point the Silver Sensor at the CN Tower and the 4221 at Buffalo.

The Silver Sensor clone that ships with the ATI HDTV is better than the Radio Shack antenna. I have the Radio Shack in the closet at the moment. When last I compared them head to head, the amplifier in the 1880 made every signal appear to be 8-9 bars, but in reality that was just noise. The SS clone allowed me to find the sweet spot at my old location and the signal readings were accurate. I have yet to find the sweet spot at my new place.

I wasn't planning to buy a rotor but considering how directional the 4228 is, I may have to. Once I mount the antenna, if I find I have trouble receiving 53 and 66, I may either get a rotor or cut the antenna in half and turn it into a 4221. I originally wanted to get a 4221 because I had read it wasn't as directional but most posters on this and other forums swear by the 4228. Obviously, I am easily persuaded :D

If you're going to setup a HTPC, avoid the ATI software. If you're going to use MCE 2005, never choose Canada for location. It took me 10-12 installs to figure out why I could never get the digital tuner to work. It seems the geniuses at Microsoft ASS-U-ME-D that no one in Canada can have or use a DTV tuner.

The Silver Sensor clone that ships with the ATI HDTV is better than the Radio Shack antenna. I have the Radio Shack in the closet at the moment. When last I compared them head to head, the amplifier in the 1880 made every signal appear to be 8-9 bars, but in reality that was just noise. The SS clone allowed me to find the sweet spot at my old location and the signal readings were accurate. I have yet to find the sweet spot at my new place.


Thanks, that's quite interesting. I always wondered about the effectiveness of amplifying an already weak signal.


I wasn't planning to buy a rotor but considering how directional the 4228 is, I may have to. Once I mount the antenna, if I find I have trouble receiving 53 and 66, I may either get a rotor or cut the antenna in half and turn it into a 4221. I originally wanted to get a 4221 because I had read it wasn't as directional but most posters on this and other forums swear by the 4228. Obviously, I am easily persuaded :D


I think Yaamon did everyone a great service when he did the 4221/4228 experiment. A lot of people thought that the 4228 was the cure for all reception ills, but it turned out (as it almost always does) that details matter. The highly directional nature of the 4228 may be why the antenna has such high gain but it may also that antenna's greatest weakness.



If you're going to setup a HTPC, avoid the ATI software. If you're going to use MCE 2005, never choose Canada for location. It took me 10-12 installs to figure out why I could never get the digital tuner to work. It seems the geniuses at Microsoft ASS-U-ME-D that no one in Canada can have or use a DTV tuner.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention the Canadian factor before.

The highly directional nature of the 4228 may be why the antenna has such high gain but it may also that antenna's greatest weakness.


I wouldn't call it a weakness. It all depends on the application. Here in Niagara, I am working with opposite directions and distances. The 4228 is perfect for that application AND would simply not be effective without a rotator. WB is more west than the other Buffalo stations and, at the present signal strength is SOMETIMES difficult to lock in.
If you live in Markam/Ajax, perhaps Buffalo appears in the same direction but behind Toronto. Misissauga, again, is different. The 4221 might work better in these applications.
One thing for sure, DHC is a great place to learn from others, and I'm thankful for having stumbled on it googling for info. Everything helps to make you a wiser consumer. Thanks guys. Thanks Hugh.

Had one of my staff remount the 4221 onto a 10' pole and I can now pull in Nbc with the other Buffalo channels stronger than before. :)

All of Toronto stations including Sun/Toronto 1 is very strong.

Height does make a difference especially when you do not have a clear view.

For me it was the Monte Carlo Motel right across the street blocking my view.

Yaamon, nice seeing you in person today.........

Anyway, sorry I had to rush back to the city to pick up the kiddies and didn't have time to chat, but I assummed that you don't have a clear view of CN Tower or the lake, right ? I mentioned to you about the trees that are half a click away directly south of me, I am wondering if it will be worst than your Hotel blockage. I always heard that trees are worse than buildings.....

Anyway, I probably won't have time until next week to try the 4221. I might just stick it on the existing vent pipe on my roof first and see what I get, and then figure out if I need to mount it higher........

BTW, How is CityHD ? I always have problem with this one.......

Michael it was a pleasure meeting you.

If I remember you said the trees where you are were much further away than the 250' where the hotel is across the street from me.

You should be fine don't worry.

As long as where the antenna is pointed and it's a clear level view you are ok. The hotel acorss the street is a good 2 stories taller than the view my antenna needs to see and I was getting everything except NBC.

With the new 10' pole the hotel is still taller than the view of the antenna needs, but its enough for me to get a very strong signal.

No, you don't have to see the lake or CN tower as I can't see it from where I am. :)

City is a max signal :) actually all Toronto channels are at max.

Please do let us know how your install goes and Iam sure you wont have a problem.

If you have trees and they are close by less than 80' and they are twice the height of the antenna then you might have a slight problem. If the trees are much further away than that then you should be fine.

I will let you know as Iam getting, a 42A10 for my dad and mounting a 4221 on the chimney. My parents house has trees 25' away and is 30 to 35' tall so I wil let you know the results as Iam not going to mount the antenna as high to clear the trees.

Will take pics and post them of the install so you can get a idea how tall the trees are compared to the antenna.

I've noticed a few folks in this thread have the 4221. Just wondering where everyone has been obtaining them? I'm hesitant to go for the 4228 due to its "directionality". Due to my location (Niagara Falls), I think a 4221 pointed at Buffalo (without a rotor) should do the trick.

I have a terk 55 antenna up on my roof on a 10 ft pole I receive all of the buffalo channel no problems. I occasionally get cbc.If I were to get a 4221 antenna and mount it to receive Toronto stations would it be possible to combine both these antennas into one cable as the terk has a power supply i plug in at the receiver end. If that is a no go would two 4221's pointed in different directions do the trick so i would not need a rotar.
I'm located near welland in a town called Fonthill.What Toronto Stations could
I expect to receive now and in the near future. I would like to get cbc(hockey)
ctv and global when they come on line,is city tv a pipe dream from my location

CoconutJoe mail order it and have them deliver it to the closest US border post office, its a free service they provide.

They will hold it for 30 days. Drive down and pick it up. :)

Foorhill yes you can use two antenna and then combine the signals and definatelly a 4221 would pull all the Toronto or Buffalo channels from where you are located and then repoint the terk.

I think from what I have been reading you might have a problem getting City tv as the signal is very weak south of Toronto.

Yaamon,

Finally mounted the CM4221 today, on a 5' pole just clearing the roof of my neighbour. All 5 Toronto HD channel came in max strength WITHOUT amplification inlcuding CityHD which I never did get consistently before. However, nothing from south of the border. I am just wondering if a pre-amp would help, or how I would know a pre-amp would help without actually installing one. I am wired for an indoor wall wart if needed, so it wouldn't be a big deal for me to install a pre-amp.

What do you think ? I don't think I can install it any higher without getting my wife's attention that the house is looking like a UFO with an antenna 10' up on the roof. :-)

I don't really care about the network HD since I get it on *C anyway, but it would be nice without switching back and forth to get all HD channels together off the OTA..........

I don't need a rotor for the CM 4221, right ?

michaelC you are on the right track. :) If you are pulling in the Toronto stations at max signals especially Sun/Toronto 1 then, you have to point your antenna more south or east to get the Buffalo channels. :)

The furthest station south/east is Nbc.

If you view is clear then just repoint the antenna there is no need to go higher, if your south view is clear.

You dont really need a preamp as I also use at the office a 4221 with no preamp. At my office I can pull in all the Buffalo channels strong except Nbc that flakes in and out during the day.

Nbc comes in fine in the morning and starts falking out by 11am.

The reason for my weak Nbc is that the motel roof across the street is still almost two stories higher than my antenna.

What you should do is try and repoint your antenna till you get a good strong signal for Nbc and let Sun/Toronto 1 drop to 65-70% signal. Because the Toronto stations are very close by you wont get the drop out compared to the Buffalo channels that has the same weak singal.

I really dont think you need a rotor from your location.

Okay, will try it tomorrow.......I think I can add two feet of height to it, would that make a big difference ? Either way I am still block by trees about 1 km away.

I will try point it south east instead and see what happens. I think it is dead south right now. What are the Buffalo channels in terms of numbers ? I am getting 5/9/25/53/66 all Toronto channels and that's it.

Thanks man.

Michael without a compass where you think south is maybe is not. :)

If you can go two feet hight there is no harm is trying as higher is better. You might even get a bit more gain, especially if your view just clears your neighbour roof.

You should definately get 23-1 Cbs and 23-3 Upn. 43 Pbs and then from there 7 Abc and Fox 29 and then Cbs again at 4-1 and 4-3. Nbc comes in at 2 but the receiver might pick it up as 33-1

Hey gordee88,

I am on Duplex on Yonge and Eglinton and I have a CM 4221 mounted on the roof with a 6' pole just clearing the roofs and I can't get anything from the states. I am aiming it at SSE and only get full strength of all TO stations.

I am amazing that a 10' pole in the backyard gets you US channels with all the trees around. I must be doing something wrong..... I do have long cable runs though. I can't see that it is because of the difference between 4221 and 4228.

I am curious and would love to know exactly where you are just to check out the surrouding houses and trees.

I have a CM 4221 mounted on the roof with a 6' pole just clearing the roofs and I can't get anything from the states. I am aiming it at SSE and only get full strength of all TO stations... I am amazing that a 10' pole in the backyard gets you US channels with all the trees around. I must be doing something wrong..... I do have long cable runs though. I can't see that it is because of the difference between 4221 and 4228.This would be a very interesting comparison test between the two Channel Master products... ;)

michaelC if you want you can return the 4221 and try a 4228. :)

I think where you are located you are in a dip/lower elevation and your Buffalo stations will suffer.

Once you go north I think past Lawrence or Yorkmills towards the 401 and above the land grade/elevation get much higher as you go more north. These increase in elevation helps the Buffalo signals.

Yaamon, how much is the difference between 4221 and 4228 ?

I am not too sure if it is worth it. I am pretty well resigned to the fact that my location sucks. If 4228 is more directional than I am almost certain that it wouldn't any different. Other than moving, I think I am pretty well stuck. I am just amazed that people get reception in midtown with a pole in the backyard. I think you are right regarding the dip. There is even a difference between east west as well (i.e. Yonge is lower than Avenue etc). So I am stuck both ways.

I am pretty well resigned to the fact that my location sucks.Tower! Tower! Tower! :D A nice 60 footer would blend in with the skyline. ;)