The topic of this thread is the next line in his original post about being told in a CTV commercial to contact one's cable or satellite provider to get CTV HD but with no mention of OTA DTV where available, which lead him to ask how to popularize OTA in Canada.

Discussion of CTV programming or CTV viewership is off topic in this thread. :)

And to get back on topic, we can only evangelize so much about HD OTA. I believe one of two things will happen:

1. HDTV on cable will remain over priced due to technical constraints, and people will slowly grow to understand the difference between HDTV and SDTV. As they do they'll pick up their local channels over the air because it's cheaper for the same quality. Ultimately this forces the the broadcasters to put more resources into OTA transmission.

2. People will be too slow in understanding that you can receive digital TV over the air. Cable will be the dominant transmission medium for TV allowing the broadcasters to neglect their OTA transmission.

Ultimately the broadcaster only cares about reaching as many people as possible, as cheaply as possible. Air transmission is cheaper for consumers, but is it cheaper for broadcasters? How do the economics of broadcasting over cable work?

Chris

Ultimately the broadcaster only cares about reaching as many people as possible, as cheaply as possible.Ultimately the broadcasters in Canada care about keeping their CRTC licences, for without those they are dead in the water. In order to do that, they must prove (amongst other things) that they have a viable business model, so advertising and subscription revenue are critical to their survival. BUT...

The Broadcasting Act clarifies what has been the case since the 1950s: OTA is the television broadcasting standard in Canada. Cable and satellite broadcasting systems are best thought of as supersets of that, based on a business model that forecasts that they can generate revenue from consumer subscriptions by offering "value added" features over OTA (such as more channels).

If a consumer does not want to patronize one of those CATV or DBS vendors, it is their right not to have to do so in order to receive Canadian television networks and stations. The only way a consumer can be compelled to choose CATV, DBS, Telco-IP-TV, etc. is if that consumer wishes to pay for desirable features.

Now, as a result of ATSC DTV, it is apparent that CATV, DBS, Telco-IP-TV, etc. broadcasters have to deal with the fact that their subscription service cannot offer the picture quality of OTA HD. I see that as a great boon for consumers. :) Now it is consumers who must demand that the CRTC decree a mandatory cutover date of all televison broadcasting from analogue to digital in the near years ahead.

ANother way to get more stations/programming on OTA is to make advertisers aware that we exist. They should be made aware of our demographics and our numbers (OTA'ers and their family). Most likely people with good income (hey we all have HD sets right!!).:p

Although its just speculation on my part, I wonder whether the absence in Canada of OTA tuner boxes being available for sale in mainstream big box stores, the absence of any information being provided to consumers by electronics stores that sell HDTV's about digital OTA and the absence of much media coverage, TV or print in Canada about digital OTA is just a coincidence???

I wonder what the reaction would be to someone launching a selected campaign say in the Southern Ontario / Golden Horseshoe market advertising a digital OTA service? It would both educate and deal with the valid comment of consumers that it is currently "simpler" to go with cable. For those of us on this forum, it's a hobby. So we don't mind spending hours on this forum and on the net searching for (a) information and (b) hardware and then (c) spending hours to install and set it all up.

For the average Cdn this is too much. HOWEVER I think they could be sold if all they had to do was phone 1-800-digital-OTA and the price was right. Heck, if I had someone who said to me that for $200 bucks they could install the system in my house and there were no monthly's then it would be a no brainer, especially if I just paid 4 grand for that nice big plasma. If the OTA set up and install costed $1000, average Cdn is going to shrug their shoulders and call their cable company.

Prices of hardware (OTA digital tuner box) are coming down because of the US changeover. In terms of antennas and antenna placement, I think as you can see from the board here, people don't want big honking antennas on their roof. The key to selling this is a small footprint antenna with a wide angle (e.g. CM 4221) or even better some sort of powered square shooter alternative that really has some range.

If someone has some venture capital money to spend and the OTA service is packaged and priced right I think you could make a ton of money here AND most importantly would raise the consciousness of digital OTA as a real option for the everyday man on the street. But then again you would be going up against the entrenched interests in Cdn TV distribution so not for the faint of heart or those with small bank accounts. I'd love to see it happen though.

BTW if you want to know what I get, look me up as the first or second post in the GTA / Toronto reception sticky. And yes, for those who are wondering, I'm still Cable Free and loving every minute of it. I haven't posted much because I'm too busy watching free (and legal) digital OTA, building my home theatre and now also watching free (and legal) TV on wwitv.com (click on the "Live TV" link - 1229 TV stations listed). Its just too bad that the average Canadian on the street is not informed or empowered to make similar choices. CRTC - ARE YOU LISTENING???????

Our taxes pay for the streets we drive on, but governments cannot tell Chevy and Dodge owners that in order to drive on them they must be at the wheel of a Ford. Likewise with broadcasting: we can choose which means we wish to receive programming, but not matter what, local television is always available on OTA as a baseline.

That's the whole point. You can't choose (digital OTA) if you don't know.

To use your analogy, people don't even know that the Ford exists, let alone where you can get one. And its not in anyone's commercial interest to let average Cdn Joe to know they can get a Ford.

OTA is great if you can get it, but for OTA to be feasible for most people they would want US + Canadian networks and there are very few Canadians who can get that - probably just those of us in the GTA/ Golden Horseshoe. The folks in Windsor get all of the US stations but are lacking for Canadian stations.

My point is that for those where digital OTA is an option (say golden horseshoe -approx 6 million people - 20% of the country's population) they just don't know about this option and / or if they know about digital OTA, its not easy to exercise your choice in this area.

Hard to reason why it makes sense from a population perspective for businesses in Western New York (where the population is much smaller than southern Ontario / golden horseshoe) to say have OTA tuners available for consumers but that somehow it doesn't make sense to sell them in Ontario - in the same retail chain - where arguably there is more OTA content available to Cdns (if you add both the Cdn and US channels together) than to those sitting in Lackawana (no offence to our American friends). I don't buy the custom and duty argument because Big Box is happy to sell you the most expensive plasma in the world if you want it regardless of custom or duties. Volume also isn't an argument, they could simply stock this stuff on their web distribution side and sell / import on demand. Bottom line is they don't and don't care to. This leaves the few independents who don't have marketing power to carry equipment on a niche basis for the few of us in the know. All I'm saying is it's a darn shame.

Most new HDTV TVs do have an ATSC tuner built in so the need for a set-top box is not really necessary.

The question is about market awareness. Educate people that this possibility exists.

Does anyone have any media contacts that we could get interested in the OTA option? Many people hae Rogers and so this would be a good story.

Sony was selling the popular Grand Wega (KDFE) televisions with the ATSC tuner, but now only the non-ATSC version (KFE) seems to be available. For someone living in the GTA, Windsor or the Horseshoe, it would seem to me that an ATSC tuner would be a desirable feature.

I'm looking forward to the CBC OTA HD transmitter planned for Ottawa this summer, so I purposely bought the KDFE model. Too bad it won't be up in time for the playoffs. I guess I'll have to watch it on Starchoice...


The question is about market awareness. Educate people that this possibility exists.

We seem to be revisiting familiar topics that are seen in the following threads linked below. We'll keep this thread focused on the specific topic of popularizing OTA in Canada, where about %70 of the population now have access to OTA DTV in some quantity (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver areas).

cheers, :)
stampeder


Pros and Cons of Going OTA:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32200


Why does analog OTA even exist?

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26595


Understanding OTA DTV Broadcasting Technology in Canada:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25774


Industry Canada/CRTC/FCC's OTA Policy Decisions:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25867


CRTC & FCC OTA News Thread:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25163

You know what would really popularize DT? Sending polite letters to various big box stores HQ, maybe to the store manager's emails if you have it, simply saying that you're a long time customer of (store ____) and are dissapointed that they don't have Digital set-top boxes available. Think ahead of their possible objections (like ATI's reason for not selling the HDTV wonder in Canada), by pointing out the fact that there are local stations broadcasting digitally, that you spent the big bucks for a HDTV (sans ATSC decoder) and want to make use of the Digital OTA signals that are available.

Honestly Canada, we're never going to popularize OTA DT, if people don't see the STBs in the stores they shop at. If it's not an option when they're buying their HDTV, how are people going to know that "antennas for the 21st century" don't suck. It's a stigma that we need to shake loose, if we're to ever have OTA popular. It's a catch 22, broadcasters don't want to front the money for new equipment because there are few digital viewers (little advertising $). Potential digital viewers don't know of OTA HD because STBs are not available in stores. STBs are not available in stores because there aren't many stations. And that's the way it's going to stay if we don't start asking somebody.

I have one word why OTA is not being pushed in Canada.

$$$$ Money.

All the big box stores and retailers make a commission be selling you a HD subscription/service via cable or satellite.

The crtc gets lobbied by the cable and satellite companies.

Its a pitty that the crtc does not promote ota for the larger cities in Canada. Why not let the public know that HD is available as three sources, OTA, cable, and satellite.

Its a shame that Canada has no mandate for a deadline for analog ota.

Going back to where z0z0 said:

I just saw a commercial by CTV which talks about the benefits of HDTV and how CTV has more HDTV programming in prime time than any other Canadian station.

And adding that with the current topic of getting the word out there about OTA HD... You know how CTV has station plugs with total strangers saying "Vancouver's watching CTV channel 9"? I wonder if they'll let me do an ad for them saying "Vancouver's watching CTV digital 32.1"

The ironic thing is that because their ERP is so low, saying "Vancouver's not watching CTV digital 32.1" might be more appropriate. :D

From reading this forum I understand that CBC, CTV & Global haven't even bothered to apply for HD OTA licences in many markets such as Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg & Halifax. Shouldn't they be required to provide OTA in all the major markets (there aren't that many)? This could be made a condition to renew their current licences. Then there are the border areas such as Vancouver where apparently most or all the high power frequencies are taken by U.S. broadcasters. How did that happen? The whole situation is appalling. Are the CRTC, Industry Canada and the federal cabinet completely disinterested in promoting OTA HD, thereby forcing consumers to subscribe to costly HD packages?

hdgeo, I think you are correct that it boils down to political will. I do not blame the Industry Canada people, who were not given any sort of clear mandate or encouragement to foster a "can do" attitude in our country towards OTA DTV success.

The CBC has a plan in place for a cutover in most major cities, but progress is slow. The CRTC apparently allows CTV and Global to operate what seem like tiny or fictional DTV stations in order that those networks can simsub on HD channels.

I've merged the old Future Shop Misleading Its Customers re. OTA HDTV thread into this one because they both cover the same topic in different ways and many of the posts in both threads seem to complement each other now.

I ran the Vancouver Sun Run today, and on my way, I came across someone working at CTV. So as I passed him, I said "Digital 32.1!" He knew what I was talking about, 'cause he smiled in acknowledgment. Maybe he'll tell some people at work, "hey some guy doing the sun run told me he gets us on digital, maybe there's a market to be had afterall". Wishful thinking, I know :)

OTA is great if you can get it, but for OTA to be feasible for most people they would want US + Canadian networks and there are very few Canadians who can get that - probably just those of us in the GTA/ Golden Horseshoe. The folks in Windsor get all of the US stations but are lacking for Canadian stations.

Dont worry - you are not missing much by not getting Canadian stations - ha ha ha. If you get ABC, CBS + NBC the you get most of the good programming. How many stations do you folks get from Detroit and the other US cities?