It is unfortunate that you have misinterpeted the Ontario Building Code and what Mike Holmes suggests. I think you should contact NCR and CMHC directly.
Does the Ontario Building Code say this "is what you must do" or does it say "this is the minimum you must do"? I'll admit that I'm sufficiently ignorant of the Ontario Building Code on it's content. This is not meant as angry remark (or this entire reply; this is just a hobby :D ); but being ignorant does not make one stupid. I've *read* as much as I could find about the Ontario building code (which is impossible to find on the internet) including the Canadian Building Digests produced by the NRC (which are only summaries/articles but the general principles are provided). Yes, there is a risk that I may make mistakes in my build; but it's my house, my situation, and my solution.
What Code I am following you ask? Well that would be the Ontario Building Code which is created by NRC. A Code which I refer to almost weekly.

I am not sure where you read in my e-mail that I suggest to leave an air space between the wall and the concrete. This is certainly not something I would ever recommend.

NRC and CMHC both suggest that the moisture barrier extend from [B]grade level to floor. Most builders install it to 2 feet below grade because that is what is required by Code and it saves them money.

Since you have extended your barrier to above grade, any moisture which gets into the wall cavity (and it will) will not be able to escape. It will condense on the inside of your moisture barrier. The area of concrete between grade and joists is left with no barrier to allow the moisture to escape. You will not get moisture through the concrete wall from the outside above grade level because, well...it is above grade. So there is no chance the insualtion will become damp.

The way you have built it, overtime, you will develope moisture inside your wall cavity and then mold will form.
Let me get this straight... a moisture barrier should extend from grade to floor which I've done. But it shouldn't go above grade... did you read in my previous post the quoted NRC CBD-13? Your reply seems to say that I'll get moisture above grade if it has tar paper over it but bare batt insulation, wood, and the vapor barrier won't get moisture/damp. I assume you were referring to "vapour" rising from below grade within the wall and condensing on tar paper (as opposed to condensing on cold wood, fiberglass batts, or anything else cold in a cold zone). This is not common sense when I think about it. My thoughts are that liquid water is heavy and gravity works really well on a vertical non-porous surface; the same can't be said about porous wood and insulation.
It's common sense when you think about it.

I'm not trying to convince you to change it...I was only trying to point out the obvious flaw in your design.

Good luck with your project.
If you can direct me to or inform me on the research, documentation, and/or phenomenon that justifies not putting tar paper above grade I will change it. Better to do it now than after I drywall. However, my common sense tells me that extending the tar paper to above grade doesn't do anything different than not extending it; its just overbuilding. Since you agree that there shouldn't be a cavity/air circulation (which I don't) and concrete above grade is supposedly dry, anything above grade will be dry and moisture (condensing from vapour creeping up the wall) will fall behind the barrier to the floor below grade where it came from with tar paper where with out tar paper it condenses on other surfaces.

BUT... Do you have a brick (veneer) house per say like most houses built today? I wonder what happens to all the moisture condensing between the Tyvek/Typar building wrap and the bricks? I wonder if any water will leak in from the interface between the bricks and the foundation ledge holding them? Either all those moisture slots must really work or the builder was smart enough to ensure the Tyvek is underneath the bricks... Kind of sucks if they didn't, your foundation will leak above grade. I think over building, while not the cheapest (though I don't think tar paper will break me), it better and may provide solutions for *other* possible problems like the above or just the simple problem of snow/ice dams above grade (it never rains in winter and snow never builds up next to the house... ;) ).

Cheers,
Kaoru

I think EM is technically correct, although I don't think its a big deal in this case. Judging from the original picture, the exterior window is actually sitting in a window well and grade actually runs almost to the joists. So the moisture barrier running up to the top is not such a big deal.
I read your link... I almost laughed my ass off when it mentioned about the "vapour diffusion" detail being well documented at NRC... I couldn't find the detail at NRC (including the digests on basement finishing). But I now see why the Manitoba Hydro suggests (and EM alludes to in the Ontario Building Code) a "poly" moisture barrier 4" above grade level extending to the floor and UNDER the sole plate. The bare concrete above, doing the diffusion, is not just for the moisture/vapour against the concrete (which would be the case for a top-bottom moisture barrier) but for the vapour in the stud wall/insulation/etc. which will diffuse into the concrete as well. That I didn't know... you don't really think that concrete breaths but it does. It good to hash things out... some good information is usually drummed out. My hat off to EM & GQUEUE.
Assumming that there will be insulation in the wall cavity and a vapour barrier on the warm side, it should still be pretty good. Kaoru..I'm sure Mike Holmes would be proud. Are you building a subfloor or laying your floor directly on the concrete (I typically see Mike Holmes on his show building a plywood subfloor over foam insulation blocks to isolate the floor from the concrete)?
Well, in my case I have a tar paper moisture barrier from top to bottom with the sole plate gasket overlapping [on the inside] the tar paper. On the back wall, grade level is at the very top... that's the foundation part of my covered porch (which does receive water) so grade (from my perspective) is the very top. As for the other side (with window), GQUEUE is right... grade level is nearly at the top; only ~8-10" from brick to grade which is not much for diffusion in my mind but I will cut the tar paper back ~6" given this new knowledge.

This discussion is the primary reason why I'm documenting my build. Like Mike Holmes says "do it right the first time". So... in terms of my build and to answer your question GQUEUE about a subfloor, the answer is I'm not doing a subfloor. I did consider it... in terms of construction I would have used dri-core, moisture barrier all the way to the dri-core bottom, stud walls on top the dri-core. This is the recommended way I'm told. But... since I need every inch of height, I'm building a riser for the back seats, a shaker platform for the front seats, and a stage as part of the proscenium. There's little floor space/bare concrete left so a sub-floor is impractical in terms of money and time vs benefit.

Cheers,
Kaoru

BTW, would that be the same CMHC that failed to protect all those home owners (in TO) whose foundations are crumbling, provide a useless warranty, or failed to engage my builder who incorrectly fixed my foundation crack (didn't do an injection because it cost too much; just covered it and now I have no recourse years later).

No, that would probably be Tarion...they are the ones with the so-called warranty for the homeowners. CMHC works/partners with NRC to improve on living conditions and standards etc. They have a ton of information on their web-site for all sorts of situations. As you know, the Code is the minimum building standard, but CMHC helps you to improve on that.

If you can direct me to or inform me on the research, documentation, and/or phenomenon that justifies not putting tar paper above grade I will change it.

Here is the link: http://www.cmhc.ca/en/co/renoho/refash/refash_024.cfm

Scroll down to "Preparing The Space - Foundation Walls". If you want to see the research papers, then I am sure you can get this stuff from CHMC.

On another note, based on the plans your HT will be quite the nice space.:)

No, that would probably be Tarion...
...snip....
On another note, based on the plans your HT will be quite the nice space.:)
The new home owners warranty may be managed by Tarion now but in 2000 when I had my house built (but didn't have the HT bug then :( and I could have saved myself alot of trouble; hindsight is 20/20) it was CMHC that did the warranty as the sticker on my electrical panel indicates. Why I would recall this? My 100 amp 40 slot panel is being upgraded to 200 amp 80 slot panel and I have to jot down all the info... I still have a year (of a 7 year warranty) on the structural/foundation. When I had water seepage, of course, I was told by CMHC that the warranty doesn't cover cracks or water problems/seepage (unless you can prove that its failing weeping tiles; good luck on that one). The warranty just covers structural meaning your foundation/walls has to fail; my comment stands... useless warranty because your house has to be unliveable (their words; not mine) to fall under the warranty.

Maybe that's why Tarion does it now... a wolf in sheep's clothing or an actual improvement? I wouldn't know... I not planning to build another house and go through the headaches. Hey! I think my house's market value went up... a relatively new bungalow, modern open concept floorplan and finished basement. House decked out with full brick, a pool, hot tub, cedar deck(s), 4 bedrooms, office/den, living room, 2 dining rooms, family room, rec room, kitchen, breakfast area, eat-in 2nd kitchen/bar, dedicated home theater :D and NO problems! Well... I'm not there yet but that's the ultimate plan.

Cheers,
Kaoru

The new home owners warranty may be managed by Tarion now but in 2000 when I had my house built (but didn't have the HT bug then :( and I could have saved myself alot of trouble; hindsight is 20/20) it was CMHC that did the warranty.

From the Tarion website:

Tarion Warranty Corporation is a private corporation that was established in 1976 to protect the rights of new home buyers and regulate new home builders.

Over the last 30 years, we have become one of the most comprehensive new home warranty programs in North America.

I've purchased three brand new homes from local builders since 1997 and the warranty has always been through Tarion.

I'm guessing that you probably had your own home built and not through a builder. If that is the case, then you would not have a Tarion warranty.

...snip...
I'm guessing that you probably had your own home built and not through a builder. If that is the case, then you would not have a Tarion warranty.
Nope... my builder is Richcraft (does only cookie cutter houses) here in Ottawa and my warranty is a CMHC new home owners warranty; got a booklet and registration form besides the sticker on the panel... BTW the sticker came from the registration form; I guess Richcraft peeled it off and put it on the panel because I didn't. My house is one of four all-most similar bungalows in my neighbourhood but mine is unique because its the first of its model/design; I bought it from blueprints. Due to its size (it's a 2200 sq ft. bungalow) and build cost, Richcraft changed the blueprints but I got the original (as stipulated in my contract, I got what was on the blueprints). Eventually, Richcraft just stopped making them because of the cost and minimum 50' wide lot needed. It worked out for me because I got all the bells & whistles and a unique house without major coin... though it did mean that my house, while being built, was constantly visited. Even today I get solicitations to sell my house, out of the blue.

Clarification: 2200 sq. ft. includes the finished garage. My basement is ~450 sq. ft. less because of the garage. When I reach my ultimate goal... I'll have just shy of 4000 sq. ft. That is alot of cleaning and I can't afford a maid. :( On the upside... I have little landscaping work because after the pool, deck(s), and hot tub... there is no space left.

Cheers,
Kaoru

Nope... my builder is Richcraft (does only cookie cutter houses) here in Ottawa and my warranty is a CMHC new home owners warranty; got a booklet and registration form besides the sticker on the panel...

That's odd...Richcraft was part of the Tarion warranty program in 2000 and still is to this date.
Check it out: http://www.tarion.com/Services/builder_detail.aspx?bcid=11792406

How many years is the warranty for?

That's odd...Richcraft was part of the Tarion warranty program in 2000 and still is to this date.
Check it out: http://www.tarion.com/Services/builder_detail.aspx?bcid=11792406

How many years is the warranty for?
The warranty is for seven years so next year it finishes up. Also, I know of another Richcraft house that has a CMHC warranty as of 2003 so it's not just me. I don't know if this has anything to do with it but my development area is shared by Richcraft and Claridge; it differs because there is a separate land owner/holding company for the development. Maybe there was some deal worked out between the two builders for a common warranty? Your guess is as good as mine.

Aside: I know about this holding company because they wanted to rezone some of the land to commercial so they could sell it. It was zoned light industrial, but due to other considerations could never be used as such. They tried to spin it that commercial zoning was better than light industrial. Funny no light industry would touch it but Loblaws was just salivating over the land. Bottom line... it was better to petition the city to keep the status quo, which will keep the land green, than to allow commericial development. Who wants a large Loblaws, etc. in your back yard with all the traffic?

Cheers,
Kaoru

I just did a search on google and after a few pages I discovered the Tarion is the new corporate name for the old "Ontario New Home Warranty Program" corporation started by CMHC/Ontario in the 70's (some idea about a national standard...). As I understand it there were "local providers" that manage this national program (hence the program was made into a federal corporation) for an area. My warranty is a "Ontario New Home Warranty Program" warranty but the booklet/papers have *both* logos; ONHWP and CMHC. Maybe this was some transition thing, partnership, federal thing, etc. I don't really know. Being in Ottawa with all the levels of government and a mess of corporate entities for public programs, confusion is the norm. So... yes, I'm with Tarion with CHMC being involved some how. Corporations slap logos on anything they touch.

Also, after browsing the Tarion site I came across this timeline (http://www.tarion.com/NR/rdonlyres/FBEBB05F-FABF-4760-8752-6FEF255523EB/0/30YearBrochure.pdf). Notice that in 2000+ there were some major changes. They paid out a lot of claims in 2003 (from their stats info) which doesn't suprise me. In my area houses were sinking since the builder failed to put piles in some lots. Like I said the soil is clay, holds water, and has no strength. Lucky for me my house sits on solid rock; they had to jackhammer to put in the foundation so its not going anywhere. The downside is I get a 7' 8" floor to joist basement; not the 8.5' normal Richcraft standard.

Cheers,
Kaoru

Clarification: 2200 sq. ft. includes the finished garage. My basement is ~450 sq. ft. less because of the garage. When I reach my ultimate goal... I'll have just shy of 4000 sq. ft. That is alot of cleaning and I can't afford a maid. :( On the upside... I have little landscaping work because after the pool, deck(s), and hot tub... there is no space left.

We are past 4000 sq/ft (with garage) now and as obcene as this is to say, you will want more even after all of that.

Also, it will be 6 years to finish my HT room as of this Sept. I hope that it does not take that long for you!!! (And I am not done :( The ceiling is just about finished, but I have a ton of little widgity finish items to complete)

My first built house was 1800 sq. ft. single family home, it was cozy but I finished half of the basement. It was a good fit but my family was one smaller and young. Now I have a 9 year old and a 18 year old... the older they get the more room you need. Hence I'm in a rush to finish the basement to escape!!! Even my wife suggested to hire a crew to do the drywall; which I'm comtemplating until I look at my budget. My 18 year old is starting university... I think I will be bled dry and left for dead. :D My hope is that when I get over the electrical hump (new service and rough-in), I can get the drywall in before winter weather and somewhat liveable by Xmas.

Cheers,
Kaoru

Well, I can tell you that once you get the crack-fill done, the rest just starts to fly together.

Summer is melting Black Ice...
Since I posted [a recap] last in July, progess has been somewhat steady though it is still slow in comparison to other projects I've seen. I'm in the home stretch for framing and I have firm dates for electrical; that being September 19th.

HT design, point of no return...
In terms of design, the layout is now fixed because the framing is up. My thoughts now turn to sound proofing and wiring details. Why? I would like to go double drywall with Green Glue. What concerns me is cost and the necessary sacifices I've made in the design. I've roughly calculated that Green Glue (@100% coverage) will cost me about ~$900 Cdn which is a chunk of change. My choices are standard drywall techiques or soundproofing techniques on my current semi-decoupled framing. If I spend the money, soundproof, and end up getting flanking sound (concrete floor, ceiling, etc.), it may no better than the standard way (single drywall, furring strips on ceiling, insulated wall). But the problem doesn't end there, I have to wire (ie. outlet boxes, etc.) for the depth of the drywall so I have a decision to make. I'm open to suggestions!

Finished the framing... A tip!
After hashing out my foundation issues/framing techniques on digitalhomecanada.com (http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?p=410030#post410030), I discovered the correct way to frame along a foundation wall. In short, you should:

Fill any cracks in the foundation. I used an DIY crack/seal polyurenthane injection kit. Seek professional advice if necessary.
Apply tar paper horizontally across the foundation starting ~3-4" above grade. You must leave bare concrete above grade for "vapour diffusion" which allows vapour buildup in the stud wall to escape to the outside; for ONLY above grade portion of the foundation. Overlap the tar paper on subsequent rows until you reach the floor. I used polyurenthane adhesive to put up the tar paper.
Lay your sole plate gasket down with 2-3" overlap up the foundation wall on top of the tar paper. You don't have to do this if your using dri-core since the stud wall should be on top of the dri-core.
Put in your stud walls. A cheap (simple) decoupling idea is to put some pink foam gasket between the top plate and floor joists.

Future ButtKicker now a reality...

New electrical panel, 200 amps baby!

Lights... camera... You get the idea!
Well, the equipment that I currently have for the family room is:

Sony KP-53HS10 53" Rear Projection HD/TV
Sony DVP-S330 DVD
Sony STR-DE835 AV Receiver
2 Tannoy tower speakers
Celestion center speaker
2 Celestion surround speakers
Sony PS2

For the Black Ice Theater, I currently have:

Hitachi PJTX100 Ultravision Front Projector (16:9/1280 x 720 native)
110" DIY screen, blackout fabric coated with Goo Systems Digital Grey Lite
Pioneer VSX-1015TX AV Receiver, 7.1 THX Select 2 certified
2 Merak tower speakers
Celestion center speaker
Celestion 12" downfiring subwoofer
4 KLH surround speakers
ButtKicker BKA1000-4A Amplifier
2 ButtKicker LFE
Rogers branded SA Explorer HD3250
Microsoft XBOX 360
Harmony 880 remote
DIY Home Theater PC with:
Thermaltake Tenor HTPC case
Antec 450W dual 120mm fan PS
Asus P5GD2 Motherboard 800Mhz FSB, SATA/RAID, 1Gb LAN, 5.1 audio
1GB of DDR2 600MHz memory
Pentium 4, 775 socket 2.8GHz
ATI Radeon X800 XL PCIe video card with 256MB
Haupauge PVR-250 MPEG2 capture and NTSC tuner card
Divco Fusion Gold HDTV/ATSC tuner card
2 Maxtor 250GB SATA hard drives
Sony dual-layer DVD burner
UIRT IR receiver/blaster w/ Girder
Windows XP Professional
DivX, XVid, and Ogg/MKV Codecs
SnapStream Beyond TV Personal Video Recorder
SnapStream Beyond Media
SnapStream FireFly RF remote
Beyond TV/Media plugins for DVD Library and custom skin
DIY multi-media network
100Mbs LAN, Rogers Business Internet Faster w/ 6Mbs down/1Mbs up
Linksys WRT54GS running HyperWRT Thibor firmware
Vonage branded Linksys WRT54GP2 (router/access point turned off)
Linksys NSLU2 network attached storage w/ 2 Maxtor HD @ 1TB
Compaq Presario laptop 802.11g wireless w/ Beyond TV Link

Hot equipment + enclosed space = need ventilation and DIY equipment rack... cool!

... which will be a howto on fans, temp. switch, and a DIY adjustable inwall equipment rack using shelf standards, hardwood/glass, and elbow grease. I can't justify the cost of a Middle Alantic rack (they even have a factory here in Ottawa; and they're still $$).
Well... that all I can think of right now...
Cheers,
Kaoru

Summer is melting Black Ice...

HT design, point of no return...
In terms of design, the layout is now fixed because the framing is up. My thoughts now turn to sound proofing and wiring details. Why? I would like to go double drywall with Green Glue. What concerns me is cost and the necessary sacifices I've made in the design. I've roughly calculated that Green Glue (@100% coverage) will cost me about ~$900 Cdn which is a chunk of change. My choices are standard drywall techiques or soundproofing techniques on my current semi-decoupled framing. If I spend the money, soundproof, and end up getting flanking sound (concrete floor, ceiling, etc.), it may no better than the standard way (single drywall, furring strips on ceiling, insulated wall). But the problem doesn't end there, I have to wire (ie. outlet boxes, etc.) for the depth of the drywall so I have a decision to make. I'm open to suggestions!



My last HT room that I built, which was in my basement, I double gyprocked and insulated the walls with pink insulation. I also used accoustic silicone in the cracks of the 1st layer of gyprock. The one wall which separated 2 rooms was....what's the term....well 2 by 4 uprights were staggered on a 2 by 8 so that their was an actual air space between the walls and the sound did not resonate through the walls. I also had a solid core door which was also sealed. Although it was not 100% soundproofed(basically because of the lighting I used) I was happy with it. having a sound proofed room really does add to the "fell" of the movie experience imo.

I'm no expert on this stuff by the way, just a DIY guy who learned on the fly and was definitey happy with the results.

Summer is melting Black Ice...
In terms of design, the layout is now fixed because the framing is up. My thoughts now turn to sound proofing and wiring details. Why? I would like to go double drywall with Green Glue. What concerns me is cost and the necessary sacifices I've made in the design. I've roughly calculated that Green Glue (@100% coverage) will cost me about ~$900 Cdn which is a chunk of change. My choices are standard drywall techiques or soundproofing techniques on my current semi-decoupled framing. If I spend the money, soundproof, and end up getting flanking sound (concrete floor, ceiling, etc.), it may no better than the standard way (single drywall, furring strips on ceiling, insulated wall). But the problem doesn't end there, I have to wire (ie. outlet boxes, etc.) for the depth of the drywall so I have a decision to make. I'm open to suggestions!


From Shell Busey:

QuietRock (http://www.quietsolution.com/), a soundproof drywall is now available through Dryco Building Supplies. It hangs and finishes just like standard drywall, while significantly blocking noise from entering adjacent rooms. QuietRock has the highest tested-assembly STC ratings of any drywall product and can be installed just like regular drywall or over existing drywall. Another option available is Roxul’s Safe'n'Sound (http://www.roxul.com/sw18169.asp), a mineral wool insulation specifically designed for use in interior walls to reduce sound transmission.

From Shell Busey:

QuietRock (http://www.quietsolution.com/), a soundproof drywall is now available through Dryco Building Supplies. It hangs and finishes just like standard drywall, while significantly blocking noise from entering adjacent rooms. QuietRock has the highest tested-assembly STC ratings of any drywall product and can be installed just like regular drywall or over existing drywall. Another option available is Roxul’s Safe'n'Sound (http://www.roxul.com/sw18169.asp), a mineral wool insulation specifically designed for use in interior walls to reduce sound transmission.
I did look into QuietRock previously... however, the prices quoted (in US $) is about $115 a sheet. Now that's for their top of the line drywall (545) but I'm sure that in canadian $ their low end (525) would be about the same. On top of that I have to add shipping. Even though my HT is not that big, it would take 30 sheets (conservative est.) at $143 (taxes/shipping in) would be $4290. For double drywall/GG, it would be $900 for GG plus $820 (taxes in) for 60 sheets for a total of $1720. So I estimate it's half the price of QuietRock but twice (if not three times) the work.
As for insulation, I already use Safe'n'Sound, works great, and can be easily obtained. Mention QuietRock, Sonopan, GG, or anthing else related to sound proofing at Home Depot/Rona they look at you funny.

Cheers,
Kaoru

Just curious, is the sound proofing meant for the people outside of the HT room (ie. minimize the noise) or is meant to improve the sound quality inside the room (ie. reflection, exterior noise)? It seems to me that in the first case, you really need to decouple the walls and ceiling from the rest of the house but in the second case, you need the walls and celing to absorb as much sound as possible, which might be achieve using some sort of textured coating on the walls and celings (wall paper or carpet) in addition to insulation in the walls. However, in either case, I'm not entirely convinced the payoff is worth the cost/effort (but that's really up to you to decide).

Prior to deciding the insulating type for my HT, I meet with a Sound Engineer from the National Research Council. His role at the Council is to perform testing on various wall types and determine the STC ratings for each.

His research proved that both the standard Pink Insulation and Safe n' Sound had similar performance ratings. Since both products are similar in price, my decision was based on ease of installation. The Pink insualtion is by far much easier to install with no lasting itchiness.:)

Pink Insulation throughout the basement ceiling with one layer of drywall and I cannot hear the TV on the 1st floor.

Just curious, is the sound proofing meant for the people outside of the HT room (ie. minimize the noise) or is meant to improve the sound quality inside the room (ie. reflection, exterior noise)? It seems to me that in the first case, you really need to decouple the walls and ceiling from the rest of the house but in the second case, you need the walls and celing to absorb as much sound as possible, which might be achieve using some sort of textured coating on the walls and celings (wall paper or carpet) in addition to insulation in the walls. However, in either case, I'm not entirely convinced the payoff is worth the cost/effort (but that's really up to you to decide).
Actually, it is both... though that requires an explanation. First off is limiting sound transmission to/from the theater. My daughter pesters me with how the TV, etc. is to loud... Of course, sound travels well in a open-concept house. But she is eyeing the already-finished bedroom in the yet-to-be-finished basement, I know I will have to sound proof for the HT on that side or I'm going to be pestered alot. I've already take that into account with double stud/staggered stud interior walls. The foundation side stud wall are just regular since I'm not concerned about sound transmission externally. The remaining concern is impact noise (ie. footfalls) from the upstairs... My HT is under a high traffic area, that being the kitchen/back entrance. This is the *most* important issue that I'm facing because it really ruins the theater experience when you hear someone tromping around upstairs. The downside is I don't have much in terms of ceiling height (especially with a riser) in the base; 7' 8" concrete floor to under joist. Doing a uncoupled ceiling on a budget without losing inches is my major challenge.

In that regard, I'm trying to think outside the box. Noting that the interior walls/ceiling will be insulated (I would have used Safe-N-Sound with standard R-12 fiberglass for exterior walls; but maybe pink all around would be the same but cheaper), so far I've contemplated:

Using RSIC-1 Ext4 clips on the side of the joists and hat channel. 1/4" below joists and GG-sandwiched double 5/8" drywall for ceiling; 1/2" for walls. This is more expensive than $1720 because of the clips and channel. Also, the clips are not readily available. I lose 1 1/2" on the ceiling.
Using furring strips (on ceiling) with GG-sandwiched double 5/8" drywall for ceiling; 1/2" for walls directly on studs. I lose 2" on the ceiling.
Factory damped drywall (QuietRock)... details doesn't matter since its too expensive.
Out of the box thought: laminating 2x3 to the joists (on the side with level 1/4" below joist) with FoamSealR in between and on bottom (FoamSealR is a closed cell foam gasket; used for sill plates/top plates). The idea is to decouple the 2x3 (which the drywall will screw into) from the joists in two spots (drywall -> foam -> 2x3 -> foam -> joist). This is the CHEAPEST way (with readily available materials) I can think of but who knows if it would work effectively (ie. better than screwing directly into the joists). I could GG and another drywall layer after that. I lose 7/8" for one layer, 1 1/2" for two.

Again.. I'm not looking for perfect but the biggest bang for my buck... BTW, reflection/room modes/etc. will be handled after I drywall... most likely I will go with some carefully placed DIY acoustic panels. I don't want to deaden the room, but just even things out.

Cheers,
Kaoru

KAORU, are you using drop ceiling or drywall on the ceiling?

I just finished butting 75% of the ceiling in with the top grade CGC 2x2 tiles and damn if that stuff doesn't just kill the sound!!!

I got the style called SANDDRIFT from HD. It looks very nice without looking out of place.

Which reminds me, I will have to take some new pics now that the ceiling over the HT side of the room is at 90% complete.