Thanks for the explanation.

BTW, I found a diagnostics mode on my TV that indicates the signal strength.

For CBC HD, I get a SNR of 20dB and a nice stable picture with minimal drop-outs.

For CTV HD, I get a SNR of 14dB and no sound/picture.

Would an amplifier help with the 6dB gap?

George

George, in the case of CTV there is likely a different problem because 14dB is a great amount of signal. ATSC tuners are sensitive to "multipath" interference, so you need to walk your antenna around the house until you hopefully find a sweet spot at which the multipathing is at its lowest. If you can't find one, you probably need to look at a good outdoor antenna like a Channel Master 4221, Wade 4BT-1483, or Winegard PR-4400. Don't bother with an amplifier.

George, in the case of CTV there is likely a different problem because 14dB is a great amount of signal. ATSC tuners are sensitive to "multipath" interference, so you need to walk your antenna around the house until you hopefully find a sweet spot at which the multipathing is at its lowest.I'll try.

So what's the situation with CBC? As I understand it, CTV is broadcasting its HD signal originate from the same point as CBC's HD. So shouldn't multi-path also affect CBC HD? Or is just that CBC HD is a much stronger signal? If you can't find one, you probably need to look at a good outdoor antenna like a Channel Master 4221, Wade 4BT-1483, or Winegard PR-4400. Don't bother with an amplifier.I found the diagnostic mode of my TV and the signal is actually flip-flopping between an SNR of 0 and 13-14dB. When the signal is non-zero, the error count is anywhere from double-digits to a couple of hundred.

Finally, is the Winegard SharpShooter worth trying? They claim that its strength is exactly with multipath problems.

George

I'm using the Sony 32" XBR w/the silver sensor right now. And I pull in CBC at 85-92% and CTV at 75-80%. I've got a 4th floor apartment in downtown Vancouver with line of sight of just the highest tower on Mt.Seymour (which I believe is CTV's tower). I've ordered the Sharpshooter online, and should have it by monday. I'll let you know my findings.

I found the diagnostic mode of my TV and the signal is actually flip-flopping between an SNR of 0 and 13-14dB. When the signal is non-zero, the error count is anywhere from double-digits to a couple of hundred.If you are talking about diagnostic mode on a Sony tv , it will not lock on to a signal until you have at least 15 db min.The tunners built into the Sony tv`s are very good. It sounds to me that you do not have enough signal strength. You will probally have to get an outdoor antenna or an amplifier.

So what's the situation with CBC? As I understand it, CTV is broadcasting its HD signal originate from the same point as CBC's HD. So shouldn't multi-path also affect CBC HD?CBC and CTV broadcast at much different frequencies, and multipath can often be very frequency-dependent. An indoor antenna is usually victimized by multipath levels much higher than an outdoor antenna due to building construction materials that cause reflections, shadowing, gaps, and other odd side effects.

BlakeW and George:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38990

Old Tech and DigitalCanadian, I've relocated your posts to the HP forum to warn other DHCers:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38992

I'm using the Sony 32" XBR w/the silver sensor right now. And I pull in CBC at 85-92% and CTV at 75-80%. I've got a 4th floor apartment in downtown Vancouver with line of sight of just the highest tower on Mt.Seymour (which I believe is CTV's tower). I've ordered the Sharpshooter online, and should have it by monday. I'll let you know my findings.

I too am use a silver sensor with a Sony 32" XBR.

I'd be interested to hear how the SharpShooter works out. BTW, where did u get it from?


George

CBC and CTV broadcast at much different frequencies, and multipath can often be very frequency-dependent. An indoor antenna is usually victimized by multipath levels much higher than an outdoor antenna due to building construction materials that cause reflections, shadowing, gaps, and other odd side effects.

Thanks for explaining this. I'm in a plain wood-frame house, about 10 years old. Nothing special other than small patches of concrete for the radiant floor heating.

(I note that CBC is in the 700s MHz while CTV is 587MHz.)

George

BlakeW and George:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38990Thanks for the clarification there. I am aware of the outdoor SquareShooter but I was interested in the indoor SharpShooter because it is much less hassle to work with. But I may end up with an outodoor antenna if that's what it takes.

George

[EDIT by stampeder] Resuming discussion of BlakeW's reception results from the Winegard's Confusing Product Naming thread linked below

Good news, the the Sharpshooter is great. Now don't get me wrong, my silver sensor is great too, but this Sharpshooter has bettered it, by a little. The instruction guide is a little tricky to understand, as it comes with many wires of different types for you to connect to and from the pre-amp. Hooked it up, turned on the TV... I was worried that I spent good money for something worse than what I already had. I unplugged the pre-amp, and voila, the highest signal strength I've ever seen on my set for both CTV-DT and CBC-DT stations.

That sounds promising...


With the silver sensor pointed towards Mt.Seymour but at a 60 degree pitch, I got around 78% and 85% respectivly.


I get 74-76% for CBC and 40-50% for CTV here.


With the sharpshooter, I'm getting 92-95% for CTV and 95% rock solid for CBC. Both stations come in with a SNRs of 28-30dB.

How sensitive is the SharpShooter to positioning? The Silver Sensor is of course very directional. Is the SharpShooter as directional?


As for analog, Global is as good as cable. A-channel is as good as it was with silver sensor (which was also as good as cable). I can pick up a watchable, but static filled KVOS (pretty good for facing north, I'd say). And can only get audio for CityTV...darn. Channel M is better, but still a bit of ghosting.


Hmmmm... improvement on Global would be great. I'm also north facing so I'm really encouraged.


For $100US was it worth the little increase in signal strength? No. But at least it delivers better VHF and stronger DT signals. Does it look like a marine radar beacon? Yes. But it's still pretty small, I have it perched up on a CD tower. Is the reflector a little gimicky? Yes. I'll be giving my silver sensor to a friend... with pride that I won't be handing down junk.

Considering that it's a one-time cost, the antenna is a good "deal". For the amount of TV that I watch, I couldn't justify cable but a one-time antenna is quite palatable. Between this and BitTorrent, I think I'm set!

George

as far as directionability, results will differ, as the antenna also uses a reflector to pick up signals that might bounce off of buildings, but I'm very impressed. it's much better than the silver sensor for directionability. it's more forgiving with analog and the signal sticks like glue turning as much as 60 degrees either side. As for digital, I'd say about 45 degrees before the tuner isn't able to get a lock.

I hear ya george. I had basic cable (only for canuck games on sportsnet), but now I get a couple of channels that still squeak through on cable, and anything I can get via antenna.

City TV is broadcasting from Saltspring Island, so try aiming towards Victoria. It will be interesting to see if you get other stations from over there. The reflector fence on the Sharp Shooter is a good example of how a reflector can enhance directionality.

I tried even sticking the sharpshooter out the window (at arm's length) in every direction and angle. From my apartment (north facing), my building blocks any South or South-West view. What signal I do get is bouncing off of the Blue Horizon Hotel. I get clear audio, but the video is in colour, but full of static. I sure hope when City-tv goes digital that they broadcast from Mt.Seymour (like A-channel does in analog).

I get clear audio, but the video is in colour, but full of static.Classic multipath symptoms, so I guess you'll just have to forget about CITY OTA.

Hey all,

Was just perusing through the CRTC decisions-and came across this one for those of you on the west coast.

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Decisions/2006/db2006-56.htm

Blasting out on Channel 20C at an amazing 772 Watts of power!! (0.772kW for those of you playing the home game) it'll be like WNYO for us back east here, but yeah just thought I'd let you guys know out there of another channel to check to see if they will be broadcasting anytime soon.

Ryan

Thanks for that, Ryan - just to cool everyone's jets, Channel M execs told me in November that they expected the decision within the first three months of this year and that if they were given DTV approval it would be nine months to a year to start broadcasting. If I hear anything further I'll pass it on. Their internal production system is already 100% digital.

New to the forum, thanks to all for the great postings...

I just purchased a Sharp Aquos with the built in ATSC tuner, took it home and plugged in an old RCA (active) UHF loop antenna and violia....HD. I am currently getting CBC-HD and CTV-HD with great results. I am now in the process to determine whether or not an outdoor antenna is going to make any difference in receiving any additional channels from the US. I am in a house on the west side of Vancouver, any one around here with any success stories?

Thanks in advance.

I am in a house on the west side of Vancouver, any one around here with any success stories?I'm in the east side (also in a house) and only managed CBC HD. CTV HD was just a tad too weak for my Bravia's tuner. I also got about 5 scratchy analogue channels.

What's your antenna's orientation?

George