Actually, my second antenna looks like yours, but it has more elements, so it might be a VU-190 model.

Yeah, I originally was about to get that 91XG (about $70 total US for me), but then realized it has great gain on the high-UHF end (eg, RF > 30).. but most of my channels are low (RF 17 - 26, maybe 32, and maybe 43)... actually, I'd love to get RF 17 to 43... so then I went back to thinking a bay-antenna (CM 4228HD, HD8800) would be better, since it's got better gain on the low UHF end...

Basically, that 91XG would probably just be good for RF 32 and 43...

Also, with your NMs -17 and worse, I'm not sure if you can ever get Seattle.. unless through tropo conditions and/or ganging up two antennas... that'd be your best hope.

Take the leap and try one of the antennas that's listed as being good in your range and see how it works for your situation then let us all know. I think both the CM-3023 and MXU59 do better for lower UHF. There's one retailer ____Source that has a still few of the discontinued CM-3023 antenna. (I used to get Seattle KOMO-4 and KING-5 in analogue but with snow with my VU-160XR, and with tropo events the other Seattle VHF quite clear occasionally.)

Yup, that's what I hear.. that CM3023 and MXU59 is better at lower UHF.

Ya, at that "Source" place, they charge an extra $8 since the boom is one long unit and comes in one long box, along with their standard shipping, like $20, I think... so it adds up quite a bit.

Ya, I'll take a "leap," soon... I've hesitated because that MXU and CM Yagi looks *so* much like the RS LPDA antenna, that I just dont know how it can give me, say +3dB (yes, I know 3dB is twice signal) more gain such that I can get over my current 40% signal to 60% signal to get a picture lock consistently.

Currently I'm just monitoring those channels and see that since tropo came and went that as long as those three channels are consistently around 30-40% signal that it wont get any worse.

Oh, another issue, is TV tuner... I was told some TVs have better tuners than others. I've got Sony CRT HDTV( 2006?) so maybe a newer TV (Sony, LG, Samsung brands I hear are the best) will have enough internal gain/sensitivity to just bring up above the digital lock cliff.

CRT HDTV( 2006?)
This would be the first upgrade before antennas then it may be all you need.

Possibly.. but I've got DTV converter boxes from 2009, which are newer, so you'd think they have good tuners to pick up those channels, but alas, they are no better than the Sony.

That ___ Source place is clearing out the CM-3023 for only $29.95 and including 50 feet of RG6, so I don't think I'd be worrying about the $8 oversized fee. $28 for shipping is not too much because Channel Master works shipping in the US into their online store prices to begin with. And for your old CRT tuner, I do know that even with converter boxes they have different generation chipsets with the newest I believe being "generation 6" that deals with multipath better than older versions; however, even now you'll find some newTV's have better digital tuner sensitivity.

I read that someone said *Source* gives you RG59 cable... hmm...

Anyways, must be Tropo tonight... Even with my rusty whiskers on CM4221 (original) and about 10 feet above ground, was able to pick up RF 20, 22, 26 and 43. Can't get 17 this time, and never got 32 yet...

I'm still debating between getting a horizontal (Yagi) vs vertical (bay) antenna. What's the difference. I thought that Yagi is more directional, which in my case is best since most of your Towers are on Mt Seymour in one location.

I can confirm that the above store does provide RG59 cable with its antenna purchases, I now have 100' collecting dust.

The quick answer is: vertically stacked arrays, like bow-ties achieve gain over a diploe by focusing in the vertical (up-down) plane. The horizontal beamwidth is virtually the same as a dipole's. Putting a screen behind the stack reduces one half of the horizontal pattern to near zero, nearly doubling the magnitude of the other half. The horizontal beamwidth is a little smaller, but not much.

Horizontal co-planar arrays like yagis and log-periodics achieve gain by focusing in the horizontal plane only. The beamwidth of the main lobe can get rather skinny as a result.

Ok, I always thought the side-effect advantage of bay-type (vertical dipoles) is that it allows elements higher up AGL than horizontal dipoles (Yagi-types). For example, suppose the highest mount point on my pole/mast is 10 feet AGL.

If I use Yagi, my height for the antenna is basically at that height of 10 feet. If I use a bay-type antenna that is say 4 feet tall, then that antenna can capture signals from 10 to 14 feet in the air AGL. I almost think of it as if I had mounted my antenna either 14ft AGL or even half, at 12ft AGL. (heh).

Yet, on the other hand, since Yagis have smaller beamwidth, that translates to higher gain, right, if you point it at the right direction if the situation is where all your towers is one the *same* location/mountain top. (heh).

the thread seems to be shifting towards a antenna what if thread rather than actual recpetion results.

I posted my results just a few posts earlier...

I've noticed with digital the signal might be really strong for a long time, but then a particular combination of atmospheric conditions and the strength drops considerably and miraculously is back the next day. Just the other day CHAN-DT 22 dropped down to 30% but now it's right back to 100%. This wasn't so much the case with analogue. But then one never knows, specifically, when a station is tinkering around with their software or equipment.

Yes, I've noticed that too... in my situation, CHAN RF22 sometimes comes in at 60% (just barely enough for a picture lock) for a few hours, then the next, it drops down to 40% or 30%, no picture.

Same with CHNM RF 20. Usually, I will get a lock on RF 22 before RF 20, but last night and this morning, I got a lock on 20, but not 22.. strange.. and RF 22 is like -8dB NM for me, while RF 20 is worse like -13dB.

Go figure? (yes, either tropo or just clouds and atmosphere, etc)...

And RF 26 and 32 is even worse.. rarely get a lock on those... while RF 17 is usually stuck at 40% signal on my Sony CRT HDTV (2006 year).. and this is with KT-200 and home built M4, RS VU-160, or CM4221 (orig) from 107 miles away.

Archerotor, the same can be said for analog. The difference being that you can usually watch a poor analog signal, whereas a digital one will drop off.

I don't think close range (10 miles from the Mt. Seymour transmitters) with analogue would degrade as quickly as that of digital. I've had an antenna on my roof for years and would never see a noticeable decrease in VHF performance, some ghosting with CIVI analogue UHF 17, but apart from that KVOS Bellingham analogue 12 was consistently strong- no snow- but now it can be stable for a week and then one evening have problems: signal strength drops from 85% to 30% and pixelates, even when I fine tune with the rotor and point directly in it's compass direction. Most nights, I catch it just fine on the side lobes, when pointed mostly towards Mt. Seymour. To me, it seems that small things, be it rain, fog, temperature changes, temperature inversions seem to affect the digital signal more, particularly with lower powered stations; but when it works it's great.

Re: the CBC HD change to 720p. Was it at the same time as the CBUT frequency switch on 9/1, or at some point after?

Any comments on HD image quality since the switch to 720p?

Whenever CBC / CBUT RF 43 gets a picture lock at 720p, the picture seems crystal clear to me.. can't tell the difference really between that and 1080i on other channels. heh.

I'm just starting to explore OTA, as I was very curious about the quality of signal that I would receive. Here is my TV Fool report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d7fb9a815737621

Yesterday, I hung an old VHF rabbit ear over my sundeck railing, and connected it to my Sharp TV with ATSC tuner using RG 59, about 50 feet.

To my surprise, I received 7 local stations, some of them with great picture quality. The stations were CBC, CHAN, City TV, CTV, CTV2, CBC French, Omni. The signal strength indicator in the TV stated that the signal was "91 out of 93", whatever that means.

I still have basic cable service. I plan to build or buy a better antenna, as I hope to get the PBS repeater on Mt. Constitution. And, rather than use an A-B switch at the back of the TV, I'd like to buy a good ATSC tuner with an HDMI output and remote. Anyone know of local sources for the above items? I will hook everything up using RG6, and plan to put the antenna up higher, although I'm not sure yet just how high.

Welcome to the forums, Tinkindling!

Please see the Where can I buy? (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=164) forum for sourcing OTA parts/services.

I also ask that you read through the Welcome to New Members (http://digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=125161) thread.

Thanks for joining, and good luck with your install.