: ON - Scarborough, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, Oshawa - OTA
2012-02-28, 09:32 PM
Quick recap. I live in Brooklin ........I had wanted to try running antenna aligned (both sides same direction) but the antenna people were not willing. They wanted to stick with what they knew. Would this help if the issue is overloading?....
Prodigy28..your idea of aiming both sides to Buffalo and keeping the preamp is correct...you won't get any overload then. I am much closer to the CN Tower than you are(10 miles vs 30 miles), use a more powerful preamp (CM7777), have my 4 bay aimed at east Buffalo and don't suffer from overload yet can still receive the Toronto channels off the side. Using your antenna as an eight bay with the preamp may stabilize your Buffalo reception.
If you want some further advice, it would be a good idea to get a real antenna (Channel Master or Antennas Direct).
2012-02-28, 11:49 PM
LOL. I was waiting for someone to tell me to get a real antenna :) In the future I will. I have spent far too much money on electronics lately so I must behave for a bit.
2012-03-03, 08:46 AM
UPDATE; moved antenna to new location now getting 2, 17, 49. Total 22 including subs. Mission accomplished.
Went back this week as we were having some drop outs on WKBW. Used Tsreader and 10, 7, 11, 23, 26, 36 and 15 are also there but below threshold. I added a Winegard HDA200 amp turned all the way up (24db) to the system. Surprise! We now have more channels. CKVR 10, WNYB 26, ION 51, CITS 36. I am now wondering if I should take that back out and add a pre amp, say 12db gain on the mast and try for CHCH & WZZB. Not sure what 15 is. Total channels now 31.
My brother visited my house and saw how awesome my almost-free setup of flat-screen TV, OTA, Netflix-via-AppleTV is that he is ready to add OTA and consider cutting the cord.
His restriction is that the antenna must be in the attic as the wife says outdoor is a no-go for an antenna.
He is in the neighbourhood in Brooklin north of Winchester on one of the crescents off Cachet. He has a newer home with a giant attic. Asphalt shingles.
As I am an OTA hobbyist, I have accumulated a collection of decent antennas to draw from.
I'm looking for advice from people with attic installations in that area.
I have a spare Winegard hd7697p. I have a 4221hd and a 4221. I also have a Wade zip8v (suburban rated vhf antenna).
Anybody have an opinion about what might happen if I vertically stacked the 7697 for VHF and the two four-bays (three antennas tall on one mast)?
He could buy a different antenna or two if a different setup would work better.
Question: To those in Brooklin and area using a four-bay or eight-bay antenna fixed in one position: Do you get CHCH? Do you get ION? Any sign of WBBZ? Which stations are your trouble stations? If you could have your ideal set-up, what do you think would work better than what you have?
I was thinking of getting a used rotator for occasional use for fine-tuning, and a pre-amp (maybe a Winegard 269 or a Channel Master 7778).
2012-03-05, 06:11 PM
I'm more south and those 3 are the trouble stations with a single fixed antenna, possibly wgrz as well.
A single 4-bay or 8-bay will yield similar results.
CHCH and WBBZ aren't happening without a dedicated VHF antenna, even then.. likely not.
And there's a simple solution to the attic issue - get rid of the wife! ;)
2012-03-06, 08:25 AM
HWP another member had the right idea, use CM 7777 as if you were fringe to compensate for the attic signal reduction and use 2 set ups pointed in different directions. then combine them.
If I do two setups, I do setup 1 + setup 2 then join them with equal lengths of cable, into a reverse splitter, then into a pre-amp, and down into the house?
Any advantage to using a special combiner vs a reverse splitter?
If I did two setups, I might want to use two combo antennas.
What about spacing? The attic is big, I could put the two setups in different areas away from each other. Or is it better to have exact spacing?
2012-03-06, 06:44 PM
HWP my advice is to point one UHF at Buffalo and the other at Ham/Tor.For best performance do not combine but run seperate cables to A/B switch on TVs.Combining can work but will cost signal and create multipath signals.If CFTO does not come in well then combine VHF antenna with UVJ.CHCH have applied for UHF.WBBZ weak VHF signal will not penetrate a roof well.All this assumes you have regular shingles and not have any metal to block signals.I would rerun the TV fool at 20 feet for an attic install.
2012-03-07, 12:41 PM
As the previous poster mentioned, CHCH has applied to go back to UHF so I wouldn't bother with VHF in this set up as CFTO should come in ok and WBBZ will be impossible anyway. You may even start off simple and try one single 4 Bay with the CM7777. If LOS is good, with proper aiming you may get all of the Toronto and Buffalo channels except for ION. If results are not good, then add the second antenna to the setup. BTW...maybe the wife can be convinced of the fact that we all here acknowledge: Antennas are beautiful :)
Yeah, I thought it could be as simple as that as well.
I think what i'll do if my brother's wife gives the go-ahead is I'll bring my stockpile of antennas and start with the pre-amped four-bay and then go from there.
The goal is to get perfect attic reception so I have a feeling it's going to get more complicated.
I started out with a 4221hd at my house with a amp pointed at a sweet spot.
Now I've got a tower and a combo antenna with pre-amp and rotator. I love my perfect reception having achieved my location's full potential.
Given he's in Brooklin and limited to attic reception, probably the best option is going to involve either multiple antennas or else a rotator.
I love the idea of a rotator because it does not preclude you from choosing a static "sweet spot." But at least on a cold day when ION or WGRZ fades out (as it seems to in Brooklin with fixed aim antennas) at least you can go and tweak your aim when things go wrong.
That's how I use my rotator. It's almost always fixed on WBBZ unless another channel is acting up the odd time.
Do people in Brooklin with attic pre-amped UHF-only antennas have trouble with CFTO?
I'm not too concerned about CHCH and CKVR since they both appear to be coming to the GTA soon on UHF. I'm a bit concerned about how weak the signals for them might be on UHF from Brooklin.
Southgate lives in Oshawa and he gets CKVR from Buffalo with a 3671 and 7777 outdoors on a tower and his TV Fool shows CKVR at +3.0. Don't ask me how, but I saw it with my own eyes so in the back of my mind, I'm kind of leaning towards the rotator just to see if my brother could get CKVR out of Barrie. His TV Fool for CKVR shows +5.1. My CKVR TV Fool at my house in Toronoto shows +6.9 and I have never locked on to it despite my extraordinary efforts. It shows how TV Fool is best used as a tool and not a bible.
And I admit I don't want to give up on WBBZ from my brother's place even though I know there is basically no chance. My house, where I get WBBZ is at +13.9 2Edge and I get it well with my outdoor antenna on a tower. My brother in Brooklin is at 12.0 1Edge through an attic. Maybe I should be realistic.
Besides all that, it's me that has the extra interest in OTA. My brother has very little curiosity about it. He just wants the main channels to work.
I'll report here whatever I end up doing. Now I'm leaning towards perhaps a DB4e and a 10-element high VHF yagi with 7777 or 8 on a rotator. A good 4-bay for the beamwidth to maximize the chance of finding a sweet spot that my brother would like. And a VHF and rotator in case it was ever needed (and for whenever I'm visiting to play with).
2012-03-08, 01:33 PM
HWP, I'm near Taunton and Thickson and I have no problems with CFTO with my CM4228HD on a tripod on my roof. Even if I use an old style set of rabbit ears CFTO is at at least 85% on my Cm7000 when the antenna is inside laying on the floor not near any windows. WBBZ is a tropo only station for me but my TV fool is only about 4 db and my antenna has no gain on channel 7
I may have seen your house before. I've seen a roofpeak mounted 8-bay near that intersection. Thanks for the advice. From that I'll assume that even a four-bay with a pre-amp in an attic can very likely get CFTO.
2012-03-08, 04:53 PM
CFTO is probably the only adequate VHF station, thanks to CN tower and real power level.
I was receiving it with my antenna laying on the ground :-P
Don't worry about it.
2012-03-09, 09:04 AM
HWP, I should have also said I don't have a rotor and my CM4228HD is pointed at Grand Island and CHCH is 50% strength 80% of the time. Never completely lose it. Even though Rochester is about 45 degrees to the east of where I am pointed the first channel I get when there is light tropo is WXXI 21 followed by WBBZ 67 and then WHEC 10 and then the other Rochester 13,8,31. If you try a VHF hi antenna and don't get RF7 you might want to try for 10. It has METV as a sub.
2012-03-13, 12:09 AM
HWP...I'm in Brooklin, Columbus and Baldwin-area.
I have a CM4228 in the attic, fixed, with a 7778 pre-amp.
CFTO - 90%+ always
WBBZ - seen it only a couple of times
CHCH - not since last summer
CKVR - never
ION - I had it once but I had to adjust the antenna such that I lost other Toronto channels, and ION was flaky anyway.
I have thought about adding a second antenna aimed at ION, but I never got around to it.
2012-03-15, 05:11 PM
Noticed yesterday that Mr. Able has gone all-out: two 4228's on the tower :p
Wonder if he can get CHCH.. ;)
2012-03-21, 10:59 AM
Should I get an 8 bay (4228HD) or 4 bay (4221HD)?
I live in Oshawa (Tauton and Simcoe) and plan on having the antenna installed as a outside wall mount on the 2nd story of my home. Rooftop is an option as well, but I thought having it as a wall mount on the 2nd story would give me easier access to the unit.
I understand that 8 bays have more strength, but the 4 bay has better muti-directional support. Which would be best at giving me more channels?
Is the 4 bay strong enough to pick up Buffalo; Can the 8 bay pickup both Toronto and Buffalo?
2012-03-21, 12:35 PM
I believe the 4228HD would be a better choice. It will ensure a better signal
for the Buffalo channels and since you are so close to Toronto you will have
no problem if you are not pointed directly at it. Also it has fairly decent
VHF performance which will be much better for CFTO RF9 and will also give
you a shot at Rochester's RF10 and RF13.
2012-03-21, 09:35 PM
If you want ION reliably, 4-bay for its wide pattern (what I'm using now)
If you want WGRZ reliably, 8-bay, aimed for buffalo (what is at the old house)
I'm speaking of winter, of course. Both stations are no problem with a little boost from the warm weather.
If you're lucky, the 8-bay side reception will line up with ION, but it was a little bit off for me. Was just a summer station.