ION's real channel is 23.

WPXJ rf23 Batavia virtual 51.1 ION, 51.2 qubo, 51.3 ION Life

Your TV has likely already got TheCW 23 WNLO scanned in for virtual channel 23. Its real channel is 32.

Because CW23 is already in your TV, it might make it hard for you to manually dial in the real channel of ION (23) and have it go to ION for you. Try punching in 23.0 and see if you get ION.

If not, try re-scanning your TV channels. Not an "add scan" but a complete re-scan.

If you don't get ION then, it might just be the cooler weather is causing ION to fade out.

Oh yeah, and RTV on 2.3 is gone. WGRZ dropped it.

ION is on RF23. If you have a manual scan option just tune to RF23. If not try typing in 23.2 or 23.3. The tuner should try to pick up on RF23. If you type in 23.1 it will likely just go to 23 WNLO on RF32.
It all can get pretty confusing.

Thanks for the help everyone. I will give it a try. Being a rookie at this i am not sure what you mean by RF. Also i had recently taken my Antenna downa nd just reintsalled it yesterday. I then did a complete rescan due to the DTV changes and still do not get ION. I will try the 32, 23 thing tonight!

With some TV's, if virtual channel remapping doesn't work, it goes by the physical channel instead, which could explain Omni 2 at 51.1.

Sometimes if there is a conflict, a simple channel up will work as many TV's these days will allow multiple stations to me mapped to the same place, but sometimes one of the conflicting stations will be mapped to its RF channel number instead, which would move ION to 23.1. However, if you already have WNLO at 23 (its virtual number), that causes another conflict, which could in theory move WNLO to its real channel of 32.1 and the chain reaction continues.

So in essence, you could have numerous channels where they don't logically belong, or have channels missing because many TV's will discard conflicting info.

A rescan should get Omni 2 back to 69.1 and everything else back in order. Unless the cooler weather also plays a factor, which it could.

Doomy, when I type in 51-1 it re-directs me to channel 69-1 and when i type in 51-2 or -3 it shows 75-85 signal strength but no picture. I do currently have CW on 23-1 and nothing on 32-1

Oops. RF means radio frequency. It really just means what real channel the station is on.

For example, CBC Toronto is on rf20 real channel 20, but the virtual channel is 5.1. The virtual channel is the channel that CBC appears to be on when you watch TV.

The reason why some stations choose to have virtual channels is so they can keep the same "branding" from back in the old days when they were on their original channels prior to the digital conversion.

So if I tune my TV to the real channel will i receive the same channel as when i tune to the virtual channel?

49leafs,

Brightonian's advice was best.

Generally, yes, if you type in the real channel the TV will re-map itself to the virtual channel.

This sometimes doesn't work for two reasons. 1) Some TVs just won't do it for you. 2) Sometimes there is a virtual channel of a different station on the real channel that you want to find (example ION is really 23, but WNLO TheCW real channel 32 shows as virtual channel 23.1 so that can screw it up, too).

Your mileage may vary. Some TV's are smart enough. I'll use the CBC as an example. If it wasn't already scanned in and working, you could possibly simply enter the number 20 (it's real number), have your TV realize something is there, and have it show up as 5.1 (it's virtual number).

I think it may be best though if manually punching in a number doesn't work, to do a complete rescan and/or post the make and model of your TV. While us people that have been helping you today are knowledgeable as far as what's available OTA in the area and the conflicts that may ensue, it may take someone who is familiar with your particular TV and how it handles conflicts to give you more specific info in regards to it in order to get the resolution you seek.

Thanks everyone, I will try it tonight

Yes, so long as you're sure that you don't have another virtual channel that equals the physical channel you want. This gets confusing without writing it down, so let me try with a theoretical scenario:

Station #1: transmits on channel 37, was channel 15 in analog, so has a virtual channel of 15.1. The station has two subchannels, 15.2 and 15.3.

Station #2: transmits on channel 17, was 33 analog, so has a virtual channel of 33.1

You do an initial scan, and find channels 15.1, 15.2, 15.3, and 33.1. In most cases:
a) you enter 15, and the tuner tunes in channel 37. The programming for 15.1 displays.
b) you enter 33, and the tuner tunes in channel 17. The programming for 33.1 displays.
c) you enter 17, and the tuner tunes in channel 17 since it has no virtual channel 17.1. The programming for 33.1 displays.
d) you enter 37, and the tuner tunes in 37 since it has no virtual channel 37.1. The programming for 15.1 displays.

Station #3 comes on the air, and you scan it in. It broadcasts on channel 33, but was 4 in analog, so has a virtual channel of 4.1. Consider now these wrinkles:
a) you enter 4, the tuner tunes in channel 33. The programming for 4.1 displays.
b) you enter 33 - the tuner will likely tune in channel 14. The programming for 33.1 displays.
c) you enter 33.0 - the tuner will likely tune in channel 33. The programming for 4.1 displays.

Adding a ".0" to a channel entry tells a tuner you are looking for the analog signal of that entry. The tuner will go there (like in scenario c above), but since there is a DTV signal at that channel, the tuner will decode it and the programming for that signal's virtual channel will be displayed.

Now, let's add another channel that came in one night...

Station #4 appears. You manually tune to its physical channel and decode it. It broadcasts on channel 22 and uses a virtual channel of 15.1 because of various naming conflicts in its home market. Here is where predicting tuner behavior gets a little tricky. Likely wrinkles are:
a) you enter 15 or 15.1. The tuner may tune to either channel 37 or channel 22. For my equipment, the tuner will tune in channel 37 as it is the first "15.1" in memory and display that programming. When I tune up one channel, the tuner tunes to channel 22 and the other "15.1" displays. Tuning up one channel brings up the "15.2" from channel 37.
b) as above, but the tuner tunes to channel 22 and displays its 15.1. Tuning up one channel directs the tuner to channel 37 and its 15.1 is displayed.

I have experienced the following, though.

Station #1 broadcasts on channel 15. It was on channel 14 for analog, so has a virtual channel of 14.1
Station #2 skips in one night. It broadcasts on channel 14, but is a low-power station that has no identity with its old analog channel of 49. It has a virtual channel of 14.1, plus sub-channels 14.2, 14.3, 14.4.
When I enter 14, the tuner tunes to channel 15 and its "14.1" is displayed. When I tune up one channel, the tuner tunes in channel 14 and displays its "14.2". I can't enter subchannels directly, so I have no way to tune to the "14.1" of channel 14. It would have been nice if my tuner could have had two 14.1s.

Remember that the virtual channel is just a label buried in the stream of bits recovered from the DTV signal. Collisions are bound to happen even with the most careful planning. The logic employed in tuners to deal with these sorts of things is not consistent between manufacturers.

ION won't come back until next Spring. You might get it from time to time or at night. But it will not be like it was all summer. It sucks.

ION 100% here, Fox is always lousy on rainy days. Hey who's this cyclism guy never seen him before? Universal sports going? Who cares, never watch.

ION 51 is a hit or miss station.weather plays a large part in reception.i usually dont get it in the fall/winter.as for Fox29,they use a directional antenna that is aimed south,therefore hard to pick up as well.i dont receive it,only when there is good tropo.i always do a complete re scan when there is a change in the weather,sometimes you get lucky and pick something up.

I was able to get ION and its sub channels last night. I had to tune my TV to 51-0 and then it re directed me to 51-1. It was coming in last night during the rain in ONT at 65-70. I was unable to get FOX last night but NBC worked great! Thanks for the suggestions everyone

Tonite channels rf51, rf44, rf47,rf25 and rf19 are missing completely. Anyone know of any other tropo channels that use those specific frequencies?

That's OMNI1, CityTV, OMNI2, CBLFT and TVO.

Figuring there must be tropo channels on those specific frequencies, or else they would be there.

Please don't discuss virtual or guide channels, they don't matter in my case as I am tuning the actual rf frequencies not the virtual...I'm not using the tuner in the tv.

The only one I know for sure is that there is a tropo rf25 that is probably knocking out the notoriously weak CBLFT.

I'm still 99% sure that this wouldn't happen to these channels if they were anywhere near their published power.

Everything else just works fine.

Thanks!
:cool:

Please update you user profile, to show your general location. Potential interfering stations, will vary depending on where you are.

If you are east of the city, then 44 has an analogue FP SRC station near Cobourg. RF 19,25,47 are all in use in Syracuse. RF 51, as far as I know, is not in use anywhere nearby - at least not that I've ever received pre-transition.

If you are east of the city, then 44 has an analogue FP SRC station near Cobourg. WTF is an FP SRC station? Too many TLAs!

FP= Full Power
SRC=Société Radio-Canada, French name for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

Where is this channel located geographically? And if it's close by, why would it be allowed to transmit over top of CITYTV?

What are the call signs of the Rochester Syracuse tropos that you mentioned? And why does the CRTC even allow local stations to use these frequencies if there is even a possibility of tropos interference?

You'd think they'd choose frq's that were vacant all of the time instead of just 'most' of the time...