Have one on a pole set as high as I can and have the other one on a separate pole but lower.
That generally will not work. The antennas must be in the same plane. Mounting side by side (like a 4228) will work but it will reduce the beam width so you may lose Toronto or Buffalo. For starters, I would try just one 4221 and see how that works. Another option may be to point one antenna at Toronto, the other at Buffalo and use a switch or two tuners. You might also want to check this thread (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=95148).

khester2009, agreed with the "try just one" suggestion - take a look through this thread for the other reports from Whitby to see if others are using a single antenna for Toronto/Buffalo.

What is your nearest major street corner?

Just mount it outside.
You'll get far better results.

I'm not sure why people are so concerned about "aesthetics" when you don't even notice antennae in established neighbourhoods.
What you DO notice are the countless satellite dishes sticking out like sore thumbs :p

For me its not about aesthetics. I don't really care if you can see it or not. I am worried about lightning strikes. I had it mounted to the roof of my old house and grounded the way you are suppose too. But everytime there was a storm and I wasn't at home I was nervous something would happen. I have a power field and a communications tower behind me. What are the chances it would hit my house before those?

If I don't have to worry about lightning strikes then I will for sure put it outside and get killer signal.

Again thanks for all the help and comments.

That's what lightning arrestors are for :p

The chance of you getting a direct strike are ridiculously low, unless of course, you have a 60ft tower :p

Lightning's far more likely to hit the taller, metal towers than your house.
It could still happen, but hell, lightning could hit your house anyway (with no antenna sticking up) and blow your electricity meter and the resultant surge fries all equipment in the house.

It's like not driving because you're worried of being in a collision.
You do drive, right? ;)

I am getting some pretty wild reception results. I have had an antenna in my attic for a few years that I had pointed towards the SW towards Toronto and Buff. I received all of the Buff stations and CBC in Toronto. I just bought a used HDHomeRun tuner device for my PC I reoriented my antenna towards the SouthEast and here is what I receive. Note that in this direction I don't get any Toronto stations but I receive stations from as far away as Utica which (according to Google Maps) is about 215 miles from me.

Location: Scarborough near Markham Rd and Kingston Rd. House is on a hill above the Scarborough bluffs about 500m from the lake. I have an unobstructed view to the South, Southeast, etc. I would estimate that I am about 100ft above the level of Lake Ontario and on a clear day I can see the smokestack of the Kintigh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintigh_Generating_Station) coal fired generating station in Somerset, NY which is 39 miles away (according to Google Maps).

Antenna: CM 4221 - about 3-4 years old, I think they have been redesigned. It is sitting in my attic on a roof truss and is currently pointed in approximately a SE direction.

Channels - here is the channel scan results from the HD Homerun software where I seem to get about 43 channels: (How the hell am I getting WKTV from Utica, NY (with a transmitter in Middleville NY) which is about 215 miles away? The station drops in and out but still, that is a long way! Is this a tropo effect? And if I mounted my antenna outside, rather than in my attic, would I get even more channels)

CH10 - 1 10.1 WHEC-TV
CH10 - 2 10.2 WHEC-TV
CH13 - 3 13.1 WHAM-HD
CH13 - 4 13.2 CW-WHAM
CH14 - 3 29.1 WUTVDT
CH16 - 3 21.1 WXXI-HD
CH16 - 4 21.2 WXXI-W
CH16 - 5 21.3 WXXI-C
CH16 - 7
CH17 - 3 9.1 WSYR-HD
CH17 - 4 9.2 WSYR-2
CH19 - 3 68.1 WSYT-DT
CH21 - 3 50.1 WWTI-DT
CH21 - 4 50.2 WWTI-2
CH23 - 3 51.1 ION
CH23 - 4 51.2 qubo
CH23 - 5 51.3 IONLife
CH24 - 3 3.1 WSTM
CH24 - 4 3.2 WSTQ
CH24 - 5 3.3 Weather
CH25 - 3
CH26 - 3 26.1 WNYB-SD
CH26 - 4 26.2 WNYB-HD
CH28 - 3 31.1 WUHF-DT
CH29 - 4 2.2 WKTVDT2
CH29 - 5 2.1 WKTV-HD
CH30 - 3 20.1 WUTR-DT
CH30 - 4 20.2 WPNY-LP
CH32 - 3 23.1 WNLODT
CH33 - 1 2.1 WGRZ-HD
CH33 - 2 2.2 WGRZ-US
CH33 - 3 2.3 WGRZ-RT
CH38 - 3 7.1 WKBWDT
CH39 - 5 4.1 WIVB-HD
CH41 - 1 16.1 WPBS-1
CH41 - 2 16.2 WPBS-2
CH41 - 3 16.3 WPBS-HD
CH42 - 3 42.1 W42CO-D
CH43 - 2 17.1 WNEDDT
CH43 - 3 17.2 WNEDDT2
CH43 - 4 17.3 WNEDDT3
CH45 - 3 8.1 WROC-TV
CH49 - 3 49.1 WNYODT

One further question - is there any point in getting these channels outside of the Buffalo stations? Will they not just be showing pretty much the same content. In other words, should I point my antenna to the SSW to get Buffalo and Toronto stations or should I use two antennas, one pointed to the SE and one pointed to the CN Tower?

Not much point in getting channels out of market unless they have something TorBuff doesn't have.
E.g. Ion if you count it as Rochester
or WXXI as it has an extra subchannel + content WNED doesn't.

otherwise they're nearly identical.

I wouldn't count on any of those extra stations sticking around as it's tropo.
By the end of the week when we begin fall-like temperatures you'll notice most if not all drop out and never come back.

For a reliable baseline, do a scan in the dead of winter. What you get then is what you can expect reliably year-round. The rest are just summer bonuses :p

I redirected my antenna towards the SW and now I am back to the way things used to be - I get all Buff stations, including ion/qubo, plus the CBC. Unfortunately in this direction the path is obstructed by the second floor of my house. I plan on moving the antenna outside shortly to fix this problem. But there really is little reason to worry about picking up Toronto stations other than CBC as they don't really show much worth watching that you don't already get from Buffalo.

Hi there,

Located in Brooklin and wondering if the CM4221HD is all I need to pick up Toronto/Buffalo stations.

I'll be replacing the sat dish on the roof, using the same bracket and arm.

Do I also need a rotor to pick up some Toronto stations?

Thnx.

Hi, I found a couple of your neighbours who have posted here in this thread previously. Use the Search This Thread tool to the upper right beside Thread Tools and put in Brooklin or other local street or neighbourhood names as search terms so that you can compare with their posts and the replies they've received. :)

The cheapest way to figure it out might be to put up the 4221 and direct it toward WGRZ and see if you get all the stations.

My friend's house is on Covington in Brooklin. I leaned my spare 4221 about 10 feet above the ground against his brick wall pointing straight south toward who knows what and he got almost all the Canadian and US channels.

Try without the rotor. You'll be pleased. If you're missing something, then get the rotor.

Based on that one experiment I tried, I'd say the 4221 without a rotor is probably the best choice for your situation.

That being said, if you do end up getting a rotor, then perhaps a 4228 as long as it is well-mounted to your roof.

I'd start with the 4221. It will probably do the trick. If you need to change, you can probably re-sell the 4221 for most of what you paid.

Thanks HWP.

4221 seams like the perfect antenna for my location. For those in Brooklin/Whitby, What is your signal strength for the Buffalo stations, and what to expect once the snow comes. My understanding from reading these forums that the signal is weaker in the winter months.

I did an install today at dear old dad's place. A CM4221HD using a chimney mount (approx 17-18ft high) on a one story bungalow.
Before starting, I already had a baseline for reception results as I grew up in this house!
Back in the 70's, we had a pretty good setup. A large VHF/UHF Antenna on a 40 tower/mast with a rotor.
We used to get very good reception of Buffalo VHF stations. At the time there were only 2 Buffalo UHF channels, 29 (very good reception) and 17 (fair to good reception).

Unfortunately dad had the tower removed years ago after going on cable in the early 80's.
Since the chimney mounted antenna would be about half the height of our old setup, I was a bit concerned about what the reception results would be.

The install went smoothly after figuring out how the chimney straps work(the instructions were terrible).

We ended up scanning in about 27 digital channels. All of the major Buffalo and Toronto channels came in(3 were Rochester channels but are too weak to function).
Dear old dad was only expecting to get about 8-10 channels...boy was he impressed!

In terms of aiming, it is facing almost due south..but a few degrees east. I didn't spend much time aiming since we got so many channels in the first place. I think the only ones we are not getting are ION and Sun TV.
I'll have to go back to my folks house and do some fine tuning to get these last 2 channels, but all in all I am very happy with the results and we have a couple of very happy senior citizens who finally have OTA HD :)

Brooklingizmo,

I am located in Brooklin as well. In the snowy months I have typically lost ION and it's subs. I'm interested to see what happens this winter though because I added a CM7777 amp this past spring. Everything was working fine but I have a 100' RG6 run and the line is split three ways so it really helped lock things in well.

On a nice clear summer day my signal strength for all of my stations is generally 90% or better but I can tell when there is whether between us and Grand Island. Also noteworty, for some reason I've started to lose some signal strength off of CTV (CFTO) and all the other CN Tower stations are still strong so I don't think that the antenna has shifted.

Thanks reddog6724.

Will be picking up a CM4221HD soon.

What's your antenna position. I think I read it was straight south with a slight turn to the west.

Did you modify the 4221HD or leave it as is? There's a post in here somewhere that's shows you how to modify the 4221HD.

Thanks for your input,

brooklingizmo

Also noteworty, for some reason I've started to lose some signal strength off of CTV (CFTO) and all the other CN Tower stations are still strong so I don't think that the antenna has shifted.

Nothing new.
CFTO is not transmitting at full power or something is not right with their setup.
I've noticed a significant increase in reception issues every time summer winds to an end, through into winter for the past 3 years.
Every other CN tower station remains rock solid, however.
I just tend to give the antenna a nudge to readjust to hopefully keep everything else in a lock and maintain ctv above the cliff.
The only reason I don't leave it there is so I can get ION in the summertime.
(it tends to fade out in the winter, so moving more to ctv is fine as I dont lose anything.)
In the summer, ION's in, but CTV comes in easier, so meh. Twice a year aiming my fixed antenna isn't too big of a deal.

Gizmo,

I am not actually using a 4221:confused:. I started my foray into OTA one weekend hacking around with a deck rail and a couple coat hangers, expanded to a 4221 clone and then I discovered this web site. Earlier this year I was really close to getting a 4221HD but opted for the amp instead. I've toyed with the idea off and on but what I currently have is feeding my tv and 3 HTPC tuners fairly reliably so I'm leavin it alone until next summer. I'll see what I need to do after the CRTC deadline. As far as antenna position, using google earth's my maps, I drew a line from my roof to WUTV's antenna then I went back to the starting point, saw what the line went through and eyeballed it from behind the antenna. Basically south and a touch west like you say.

Recneps, thanks for sounding off. You've basically verified what I was thinking. Since I seldom watch anything "live" anymore I'll just reprogram my recordings to pick up off one of the US networks instead of CTV.

I realize that I'm in the opposite direction, but I haven't noticed any changes with CFTO-DT. recneps77, I suspect that you're likely getting some late summer tropo-induced co-channel on channel 40.

reddog...oops, my bad.

Thanks anyway!

hi evveryone

i'm new here. first want to thankyou all for your help and time.

looking to buy an antenna. we just disconnected cable, tooooooo expensive. want to get a resonable one. any suggestion. i have no clue, what to buy, where to by. right now, we have anolog TV. live in a house.

thanks