: ON - Scarborough, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, Oshawa - OTA
2006-03-19, 05:58 PM
...from my house west south west is aiming at mid toronto, guess my buffalo is coming in on one of the 4228's side lobes.Theoretically then you should be able to rotate it to Buffalo and then pick up Toronto on a side lobe, which sounds more efficient. Nevertheless if this is a good solution for you and you're tired of fiddling with it, stay with it. Thanks for the info on Sal's - that's great service. Could you post their contact info and your commentary in the Equipment thread for others?
2006-03-19, 07:59 PM
Iam suprised that with all the years of experience Sals has with antenna sales that he would know better than from your location you cannot tune your 4228 and get all the stations properly (Nbc) and all from the CN Tower without a rotor.
If Sal knew the coverage of the 4228 he would know that it cannot from your location get Nbc which is more south west and the Cn tower being almost going towards west.
The reason why you are almost getting everything is that your antenna is basically pointed in between the Cn tower and Buffalo. With the gain and the 15' angle you are able to receive.
You would have a greater chance getting signals from the Cn tower with the side lobes as at a 30' off angle the 4228 is down -10db.
You will have to either get a rotor or another antenna and point at each city as Tom F1 did.
But for Nbc you have to point your antenna more south west and that will cause you to drop possible Sun and City.
2006-03-20, 03:55 PM
Yaamon, I dont think you read Jimpapa's thread correctly. After reaiming the antenna he said he was happy with the results and when it was warmer out he would try to get nbc. I dont think your statement is correct when you said "from your location you cannot tune your 4228 and get all the stations properly (Nbc) and all from the CN Tower without a rotor."
I am in whitby and can throw a rock into oshawa, I am using a 4228 as well, my results are excellent including nbc @78% both sun and city @ around 65-70%. I think the 4228 is the ultimate antenna for our area WITHOUT a rotor, and if memory serves me correctly both Sal and a tech at channel master told me that the angle of the 4228 was 20' and not the 15' you are claiming, as well they both told me that you CAN tune a 4228 for specific channels by cutting or bending the the actual bowties. The channel master web page lists the 4228 as the largest directional antenna. Yaamon I work very close to you and did not purchase my antenna from you because you insisted that I needed a rotor for my area. I have HD in 2 different rooms and didnt want to have to fiddle with a rotor like I did at my parents place 20yrs ago. Yaamon you might want to get your facts straight before you bash other dealers on this forum. IMHO
2006-03-20, 04:58 PM
wetdog I guess you are the one that did not read my post properly. :)
I said: (But for Nbc you have to point your antenna more south west and that will cause you to drop possible Sun and City.) Hmm did I say the word "possible"
This meant that if he repeaked his antenna more south west towards Nbc he posibble may lose the signal on Sun and City.
Also being closer to the lake and on a hill will improve signal reception.
Well from my point of view the CM4228 is down 3db by 15' and by 20' its down 6db. So maybe a -6db is the rating to use ? Yes you can cut the tips where they are indents on the 4228 but if Iam not mistaken that is to tune the antenna for higher UHF frequency.
By the way I do not have a problem with what you said about the 4228 that is it the largest directional antenna channel master has. But when you are not using a rotor you need a antenna with a wider coverage. Just like if you told me you live in Mississauga or Oakville and you want to use a single 4228 to receive all from the Cn Tower and Buffalo I would recommend a rotor setup.
I have not read any board member here is able to receive all with a single 4228 from west end Mississauga or Oakville .
Iam glad that you are able to receive all the stations properly from your location in Whitby. That is decent signal from Nbc and the two weak Sun and City.
Iam sorry but I don't remember ever insisting to you or a customer that you Must use a rotor. If I came across like that Iam sorry. I know that I would have normally recommended that from locations east of Ajax its hard to use a 4228 and get all channels.
Tom F1 being in Ajax already made known that one 4228 did not cut it for him with one antenna the signal would drop out enough that he was not happy with that setup.
Another example from experience in Ajax there is a stereo store Sound Center that I have sold a 4228 to and they have problems getting Nbc and they have the antenna on there roof with a clear view and short cable run. They are south of 401 off Harwood.
My opinion was that being even further east would make it difficult to be able to receive Nbc without any dropouts and still be able to receive Sun and City properly. Well maybe Iam wrong about this and the 4228 will work fine east of Ajax?
Ps: I was not bashing Sal its just that he might have given customers false hope that a 4228 in all of the GTA is the Holly grail and should be able to pull in all the stations properly.
Iam sure if you read the other people posts, who have bought their 4228 elsewhere are also having problem receiving Nbc and all of the Toronto stations at the same time.
2006-03-20, 05:38 PM
wetdog, I hope you will post your channel/signal results in this forum. Please keep the OTA Forum friendly, and I think Yaamon's reply is a starting point for comparing your results to his for the benefit of all of us. :)
2006-03-20, 06:46 PM
Stampeder, I wasnt trying to be unfriendly only stating a fact, sometimes type written words can be taken the wrong way. Im at work right now so I cannot post the results at this time.I will put some time together and make a list up and post it. I will also call my friend who uses a 4 bay in Pickering at whites and 2 to make a list up and post it as well. :)
2006-03-21, 03:42 PM
Thought I would brush up on some more technical info on antennas and this author clearly states the following.
The beam width is normally measured to the “half-power points”. That is, the beam width is the number of degrees between the points where the gain is 3 dB less than for the antenna’s strongest direction.
2006-03-21, 04:16 PM
Jim sorry for coming across like that. It was not meant to my point I was trying to make was from experience its not very likely that you are able to get Nbc without dropouts and still maint a steady signal from Sun and City.
Again read my post all I was commenting was that maybe Sal did not quite understand the coverage of the 4228.
Maybe Iam wrong about the reception, cause wetdog said he gets them fine.
But before I sold a 4228 to that store in Ajax I mention that a few channels might be difficult after reading Tom F1 post about his reception using a single antenna(4228).
I dont understand what this comment was about :rolleyes:
"I bet if i had the misfortune of using you as my dealer I would have something that resembles the VLA antenna array in New Mexico."
Guys I guess what jimpapa is saying is that if you use a single antenna and rotor your setup looks like crap. :confused:
Ps: By the way Iam glad that you are happy with your reception and setup. All I did was made the comment about that it might be very difficult for you to get Nbc and the two weaker stations from Toronto.
2006-03-21, 04:18 PM
Everyone, please keep the OTA Forum friendly. I've said it once already just a few posts ago.
2006-03-22, 09:11 PM
2-1 WGRZ-HD (signal 54% - 77%)
4-1 WIVB-HD (signal 79% - 93%)
5-1 CBLT-DT (signal 79% - 93%)
7-1 WKBW-HD (signal 86% - 93%)
23-1 WIVB-HD (same as 4-1)
23-3 WNLO-SD (same as 4-3)
29-1 WUTV-HD (signal 79% - 93%)
43-1 WNED-HD (signal 100%)
43-3 THINK B
53-1 CITYHD (signal 77% - 89%)
66-1 CKXT-DT (signal 77% - 89%)
The above has been stable through the winter storms and lately, fog and rain.
RCA 30DB amplified indoor antenna (spent a while getting it aimed just-ever-so)
Oshawa, 12th floor facing due-south, overlooking the lake
1. Try as I might, I can't get even a sniff of CFTO. It does not scan in. Have tried to tune 40-1, 40-2, 40-3, 9-1. Nadda. Could this be a defect with the Samsung or antenna?
2. Channels 23-1 and 23-3 seem to the same as 4-1 and 4-3. Should they be different?
3. This setup has been working nicely throughout the winter, considering the indoor antenna. Will the summer weather have any affect on things? e.g. is UHF reception better or worse in summer?
4. Recommendations for a better indoor (outdoor not an option) antenna?
2006-03-27, 05:53 PM
without changing my antenna location i was playing around with my receiver on the weekend and ran another scan. now i get two nbc stations(the hd nbc and a nbc weather channel).
so to recap, from north east oshawa on the small part of my roof over top my porch using a channel master 4228 pointing west(at yonge and 401 according to google maps) i now receive on my samsung sir 360 nbc,abc,cbs,fox,upn,pbs,something called tree, cfto cbc,city tv,french cbc, and suntv. also a standard off air scan gets tons of pretty good quality uhf/vhf channels. all the channels are clear with no freezing or pixlation problems. This is major fun. i've got everything running directly to my tv (panasonic 53") and also feeding into a recently built pc based pvr. i think there calling them htpc's now. it runs beyond tv4. combined with my fta satellite i'm getting a ton of free stuff now and i'm ready to take my rogers box back. it's amazing the amount and quality you get with a relatively small investment and little sweat , and of course a lot of help from the good people on this forum and all with no monthly fees. i was thinking about this on the weekend and how most people have been brainwashed to think they have to get a cable subscription or pay satellite service, so i will now set sail forward and preach the gospel of free OTA television to all that will listen.
2006-03-30, 08:56 PM
1. I've heard a lot about people who can't get cfto on the samsung.
I don't get why its the recomended reciever. I'd say trade it for something that works, but i might get shot by DHC.
I get CFTO just fine on my Sanyo and my BEV9200.
2. Yes, 4 & 23 are the same signal. Maybe someday when UPN goes away we'll get the new channel.
3. hot summer you might get more stations from rochester.
4. you might get a more stable result wit a 4221 in a window, buy you still might have to optimize for TO or Buf stations.
2006-04-08, 12:34 AM
I just found this site tonight and I must say it has an impressive amount of infomation. My only problem is I don't understand what it all means. I also don't even know if I'm doing this posting thing right.
My question for you guys is how do I get the best reception and what type of system do I need. I live at the topp of a crest overlooking lake scugog (east south end of it ) and we have an antenna on a 70 or 80 foot tower. The antennta looks like an isoceles triangle and the rotor on it is prehistoric (it doesn't even work the antenna spins with the wind). I am going tmorow to pick up a new rotor controller its a zenith I do have a CM9521 remote but we didn't purchase the rotor motor b/c we didn't realize it was fried. I'm looking at gettting the WB and city tv (they both rarely come in now) but we get global and CTV and the A channel and TVO amoung a few others including the french channel. I was also looking at a spartan pre amp but I don't know if that will make a difference. Being that the antenna is so high and climing the tower is an experience in bladder control I only want to do it once if at all possible. Any suggestions? Does the type of rotor motor make a difference? Also we don't have a HD tv and aren't really interested in getting one the 36" JVC that's about 5 years old works just fine is it better to have anewer tv for reception? Thanks any ideas would be much appreciated.
Rob in Courtice
2006-04-08, 09:25 AM
Hi, your right, lots of info here. Lots. Been doing analog tv myself for many years, (Cable companys :mad: ). I'm on a hill in Courtice and when I moved in 10 yrs ago I put a Channel Master "deep fringe" (not sure of the model) on a tripod on the roof. Didnt use a rotor, put an old antenna head on the same pole, so I have one aimed at Toronto, one at Buffalo. Works great. I also have an amp (piece on the tripod, one in the house). I would suggest any Channel Master (UHF/VHF) with amp, of the 'deep fringe' (unless they make a Deep-Deep) type, and for u, a rotor.
Then as always with over the air (OTA) tv, cross your fingers and give er a shot. Sun up and sun down really mess with the signals, rain, fog, snow, also. But damm it's cheap, and no suprise opening of your cable bill to find they raised the rates last month and your already in arrears..............:o
2006-04-08, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. What does deep fringe mean? When you say wiith amp do you mean a channel master antenna also? Thanks Kristy
2006-04-08, 12:17 PM
Hi,clutchandburn you need a new rotor and uhf/vhf combo antenna from channel master or winegard.Also all the analog signals from USA will be turned off Jan 2009 including WB49.You will need a digital tuner then.
2006-04-08, 09:25 PM
What type of antenna do you recommend the guy in Bowmanville said a CM4242 but its $200 and by the sound of it really large?
2006-04-09, 01:25 AM
What type of antenna do you recommend the guy in Bowmanville said a CM4242 but its $200 and by the sound of it really large?
The CM4242 is an excellent UHF/VHF antenna for analog and digital TV.
2006-04-09, 10:30 AM
Thanks I'll get it on order then :)
2006-04-21, 07:53 PM
I just got my Channel Master 4221 today and decided to some testing indoors and managed to scan in several Buffalo channels but I could only get CBC. CITY and CTV were nowhere to be found. I decided to go up on my roof with the antenna and see what kind of difference I would get with it on the roof,and to my surprise the signal meter was lower on my receiver with the anteena outdoors than it was indoors? Im using RG-6 cable at about a 50 foot run with an inline amp. Now I was wondering if because I have 2 satellite dishes on my roof could that cause some interference with the antenna? What should be the proper location for the antenna? I live in Pickering right next to the 401 and have a good line of sight to the southwest. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated