: ON - Scarborough, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, Oshawa - OTA
Generally speaking higher is better, but sometimes you'll need to play with the height (up/down 5 feet) to find the sweet spot for your desired channel.
Well it would seem "down" for me would be where my sweet spot is... I should have left well enough alone.. lol ....I was doing "fine" before i got "higher fever...
2009-09-14, 12:24 AM
I did find the signal meter.. It give a reading of SNR with the max as 30.. I have no idea what any of tha means ... Yes I'm new..
30's very good.
SNR is signal to noise ratio. Essentially the ratio of good to bad signals. The higher, the better. 30 SNR = 30x more good than bad. i.e. for every 1 bad data 'packet' you receive, you're getting 30 good ones.
Both Hauppauge tuners I have bottom out around 17-18 (start to break up/lose lock) and max out around 30-32. As long as you're above the 18 mark you should receive a strong lock due to error correction. (so it doesn't really matter if not every channel is quite high. As long as it's reliably above 18, you're good.)
I believe the meter goes red - orange - green
Anything in the orange should be fine as-is. Green is obvious, red you might want to refocus the antenna to get to orange, if possible.
2009-09-14, 12:11 PM
If you're using WinTV7 make sure you download v1.2. You might have to search a little for it. The signal meter is accessable through the Windows start menu (All Programs-Hauppage WinTV-Signal Meter). The 1.1E version that came with my card appears to be a European version.
Using an indoor bow-tie antenna (on the second floor) I've been able to get most of the US channels, depending upon where I locate the antenna, but only OMNI in Canada. Although most of the reception requires the antenna being put in a back window.
Thanks Rec.. for explaining the SNR stuff.. I have been using a little tv with the DTA 1100 reciever to do my tests outside.. It would seem my pioneer reciever decodes the most channels..Does it matter which one I use to point the antenna's??? Hopefully tonight I can drop my pole a little to see if I can get solid signals again.. But after 11pm last night i seemed to be getting better siganls than just a few hours earlier.... To say Im just a bit confused is an understatment... lol .. Part of the OTA learning curve,, i suspect.. but I'm slowly cathing on .. thanks for all the help so far..
2009-09-14, 05:06 PM
When fine tuning an antenna, I'd test with your weakest tuner.
That way you should (in theory) be able to get those channels and more from the other (stronger) tuners.
Thanks for the help on the SNR meter...I'm thinking that for fine tuning it might work the best as it seems very sensitive..and the ability to contol it's refresh rate might be helpful..I have been using what i suspect is my weakest tuner in my DTA1100 (non hd) tuner.. Other than Global(17SNR) and Hamilton (19snr), i seem to be getting any where from 23 -30 readings on all of the other channels... green bars all around,,, :D .. I did a minor adjustment on my TO antenna tonight and things tuned in nicely.. Maby last night was just a bad night for tuning???? I never dropped the pole because I need the height to clear the roof of my house.. Ill try and get some pics tomorrow to show what I mean..
The picture quality on my pioneer is just amaxing and I'm getting everything I pretty much should be getting, so do I need a pre-amp?????.. How do you know for sure??? With the all new RG6 cable, Im getting a better picture than I ever did with Rodgers or from Sat.. I'm pretty much ready to dump cable now that I have this working decent.. :cool:
2009-09-15, 04:43 PM
In about 2 months (if not now), you'll know if you need a preamp or not.
That's about when channels start to "dull" because of the cold and end of major atmospheric activity causing DX days.
I have found that pretty much every channel stays the same, though some borderline stations were lost for me in the winter (buffalo - MyTV)
Now that they've switched to full power digital, it will be interesting to see what happens.
2009-09-19, 12:10 AM
I treid out an Antennas Direct Clearstream 4 (C4) today.
I borrowed it just to test. I put it on top of my array and fed it to my bell9242 and my samsung TV through a splitter. 70 ft od good RG-6. No amp at all.
I pointed directly at WKBW, south of Buffalo.
I got all buffalo stations and all toronto stations on the sidelobe with no re-aiming. No hamilton. I should have borrowed a 4221 as well, I wanted to do a direct comparason.
That sounds good Tom. Did you happen to get any signal strength readings?
2009-09-25, 12:59 AM
GPS Location 43 degrees 51 minutes 26.94 seconds North 78 degrees 56 minutes 50.32 seconds West
Setup 8 m mast on top of roof (2 story house 40 degree pitch roof)
stached CN 4228 HD with mod - plastic covers removed balin flipped over
lower antenna aimed to CN tower (approx), upper antenna aimed South (compass south not true)
777 amplifier fed in though basement ceiling level and up to main floor est 50 ft cable, with 1 split off with nothing connected yet
First TV scan done ~ 2:30 PM 24 Sept 2009, before final tightening of antenna mounts...
Channels picked up (then confirmed with clear picture)
TV is a 2006 Sceptre 37 " LCD ATSC bought from TD
So far I haven't found the menu item to show channel signal strength.
I thought WOW this is great I had to go to work the techs continued to tighted and clean-up
Tonight 7:30 pm checkout OTA - see which channels have guide info etc..
Found 8-1 now weak signal , as was 10-1, 10-2, 13-1, 13-2, 21-1-2-3-4, 26-1-2, 31-1, I also had 2 periods of a few seconds where the picture froze and once saw a weaksignal on channel 4-1 (during Mentalist)
Did something happen when the antennas were tightened down? Or did I have freakeshly good signals when I first scanned?
I'd like to get those other channels back! (mainly Rochester I suppose...?)
Also is there a place where I can check online my daily available programming - until I get a OTA PVR set-up. I found the local Staples has ATI HD600 on clearance for $57. and also picked up a Hauppauge 950Q for comparison $102
Thanks for all OTA info - now I'm enjoying it too.
Colin .. I also saw a drop in strength on the stations you mentioned..I also wondered what was gong on.... :confused:
2009-09-25, 04:48 PM
Most likely weather. Check it out tonight and tomorrow to see how things go.
2009-09-28, 02:10 PM
More reception data.
First rochester channels did not return
manually tuning TV I found a number of duplicate channels:
20-1 = 5-1
18-1 = 11-1
24-1 = 25-1
32-1 = 23-1
33-1 = 2-1
35-1 = 36-1
38-1 = 7-1
39-1 = 4-1
40-1 = 9-1
43-1 = 17-1
53-1 = 57-1
are these real channels?
I also found 65-1 Global - where I could not receive 41-1 or other global channels
I hooked up a HVR 950Q and HD650 to MCe XP and MCe vista computers and the 950Q up to an old Xp home computer - none of these tuners could recieve the 65-1 global channel or the other duplicate channels I found with the TV.
Using the MCE antenna channel strength analysis (from the HD650 - was equal for 950Q - no difference XP to Vista ) combined with TV fool data for my location and approximate antenna height gives:
gr = green or = orange
Digital SS= sig strength bars 25-Sep 26-Sep
Callsign Chan* Dist NM view + SS SS
(mi) (dB) 23:30 est 07:30 EST
* CJMT-TV* 44* -14.1 26.0* 53.2 no sig + 6 gr 6 gr
*CBLT* 20* -5.1 26.5* 50.9 6 gr 6 gr
* CBLFT* 25* -25.1 26.5* 50.4 3 or 1red
*CKXT-TV* 40* -52.1 26.5* 49.3 no sig 6 gr
*CIII-TV-41* 41* 26.5* 49 no sig + 5 gr 6 gr
* CFMT-TV* 47* -47.1 26.5* 48.5 no sig + 4 gr 6 gr to 4 or
*CITY-TV* 51* -57.1 26.5* 41.8 6 gr 6 gr
*CFMT-DT* 64* -47.1 26.0* 35 no sig + 4 gr 4or - 5 gr
Sun 66 -66.1 6 gr 6 gr
*YESTV* 21* 26.0* 33.8 no sig = 1red 1red
*CIII-DT-41* 65* ?65-1 26.5* 32 no sig + 5 gr 6 gr
CIII DT -41.1 no sig + 5 gr 6 gr
*CITY-DT* 53* -57.1 26.5* 31.5 6 gr 6 gr
*HDTV* 30* 26.0* 30.8
*WNLO-DT* 32* -23.1 57.3* 29.2 4 gr 4 gr
* CIII-TV-27* 27* 42.7* 21.6
* WNED-DT* 43* -17.1 57.3* 21.5 4 gr - 4 or 4 gr - 4 or
* CIII-TV-27* 30* 42.7* 16.7
* WUTV-DT* 14* -29.1 57.6* 15.7 6 gr 6 gr
* WIVB-DT* 39* -4.1 84.5* 15.1 4 gr 4 or
* CICO-TV-74* 18* 44.3* 13.6
* WKBW-DT* 38* -7.1 86.1* 11.4 4 gr 4 or
* WGRZ-DT* 33* -2.1 81.2* 11.2 6 gr 6 gr
* CICO-TV-74* 24* 44.3* 10.9
* CFTO-TV-54* 35* 45.7* 10.2
* WNYO-DT* 49* -49.1 78.3* 9.2 4 gr 6 gr
* WNGS* 7* -67.1 86.1* 9 no sig = 1red 1red
* CITS-DT* 35* 36-1 61.0* 8.8 4 or 6 gr
* CHEX-TV* 12* -12.1 45.9* 8.6
* CKVR-TV* 10* -3.1 50.7* 8.1
* CHEX-TV* 34* -12.1 45.9* 7.8
* CBLT-TV-1* 33* 50.7* 5.4
* CBC* 24* 44.3* 4.6
* WPXJ-TV* 23* -51.1 81.2* 1.3 6 gr 1red
* CFTO-TV-54* 60* -9.1 45.7* -4.3 6 gr 4 gr
CHCH -11.1 OK sig 2 RED 1red
* CBLFT-12* 42* 44.3* -9
* CJOH-TV-6* 49* 95.3* -15.8
* WHEC-DT* 10* -10.1 84.3* -15.9 no sig = 1red 1red
*WNYB-DT* 26* -26.1 102.4* -17.2 OK sig 3 or 1red
*WROC-DT* 45* -8.1 84.3* -19.2 no sig = 1red 1red
*WHAM-TV* 13* -13.1 84.3* -19.3 no sig = 1red 1red
*WXXI-DT* 16* -21.1 84.3* -19.5 no sig = 1red 1red
Any suggestions (antenna re-orientation etc) to get Rochester back without losing Toronto or Buffalo?
2009-09-28, 04:33 PM
This time of year? Not likely.
In the summer, there's just naturally stronger signals (i pretty much had a steady lock on WXXI, the others came in quite easily most days too)
In the fall/weather signals tend to get "dull" so it's going to be harder and harder to get rochester without actually aiming directly for it (not impossible, though)
At this point, I would not be trying for rochester. It's nice to have when it comes in, but if you don't have a rotor, it's a PITA to keep adjusting trying to get it, when you can get buffalo + toronto 99% of the time without issue.
As for those channels you listed:
20-1 = 5-1
18-1 = 11-1
24-1 = 25-1
32-1 = 23-1
33-1 = 2-1
35-1 = 36-1
38-1 = 7-1
39-1 = 4-1
40-1 = 9-1
43-1 = 17-1
53-1 = 57-1
Those are the real (physical) channels that the stations are broadcasting from
I have all of a sudden lost a good signal from WGRZ 2.1,2,3..It and global have been my problem stations from the start.. I got ion for a bit but haven't seen it in 2 weeks.. but I'm not fretting over that..
I have tried different things with aiming, stacking, raising, lowering, etc.. It seems to have started with the troubles at global.. Can there be a conection??.. My global signal before the problem was fair-good..Now it is all over the place like the station...My 2.1 signal was good-great.
At the moment I'm pointing one(4221hd's) at TO and 1 at Buff pretty much @ the wgrz tower, yet the signal comes and goes like the temperature around here... I'm almost ready to go get a 4228hd to point at buff and use 1 4221hd for TO.. Just looking for advice before i go out and try and re-aim, again, or go back to stacking(which seemed to work well until the last few days?)...Or go grab a 8 bay for buff..
2009-09-30, 05:44 PM
I've had no problems with NBC, though my watching is mostly at night.
The only time i've seen it disappear is midday/afternoon (happened to be on NBC when i turned on the tv to check some things and noted it was gone).
By that evening it was back to rock solid.
It's just the nature of the channel (as you'll see if you go through the billion pages in this thread :p)
Did you aim it by where you think it is? (i.e. measurement)
Or through watching the signal as you move the antenna to various positions?
i used the signal meter to get the best i could... If it is not so cold tomorrow i will try and restack them and see if I can get a better signal again..
2009-10-02, 12:56 PM
Nat, Combining 2 antennas for Buffalo and Toronto is tricky.
When 2 antennas are ganged pointing exactly the same direction, they add together, theoretically adding 3 dB, in practise, 2-2.5dB.
When they point different directions, you lose 3 dB gain on each. (1/2 the signal comes to you, the other 1/2 is wasted).
So, you don't want to loose, so the angle between them needs to be lessened, so they almost add togeter, Any more than 30 degrees appart and you have less gain than with only one antenna.
So, from Oshawa (or Whitby, Ajax) try pointing one antenna just south of Toronto, and the other just west of Buffalo.
What you try for is to get the side lobe of one antenna adding together with the main of the other, in effect, giving you a wider pick up pattern.
Combining a 4221 and 4228 doesn't work well, too hard to get them in phase. I did that a few years ago, and by cutting to length, trial and error, I got them in phase for ch33, but worse on others.
I gave up on that last year and now have stacked 4228's for Buffalo, combined with another 4228 pointing at hamilton. I also threw out the pre-amp, and use a distribution amp. The weather has to be really bad before I lose signal. Ch33 (2.1,2&3) is much more stable now that the US analogs are gone.
Thanks TOM.. I will try and aim like you describe above, today.. Using the 30degree difference method should the antenna's be tight together or spaced apart? My Buff signals are pretty flaky today so I'm not sure how good a day it is for aiming..
2009-10-05, 09:44 PM
I currently have twin hacked and stacked 4228hd's amped with a Winegard AP 8700, rotored, and have decent hight, so as expected, I have very strong dependable reception (without rotoring).
What I would like to know is (probably with ideal LOS) what is the minimum equipment some of you are getting away with to receive the following digital channels dependably with no tropo Example: cm 4220 and kitztech amp... etc Maybe you are close to the perfect small setup but have one or two problems channels... your input would also be valuable to myself and others... I will probably test in this area after I gather some info.
Thanks in advance :D