Biggy,

Thanks for the compliment. I have not tweaked the antennas at all since putting them up. I read when stacking they should be at least 3 ft apart and at least 90º angles to avoid crossing the beams. I'm getting fairly strong signals as it is now and a pre-amp or distribution amp is all I probably need when I consider splitters.

At my location, Ellesmere and Markham Rd, with only a single story house these are some of the channels I'm getting, minus any undesired ones:

2-1 WGRZ HD 91% signal
4-1 WIVB HD 100% signal
5-1 CBLT DT 88% signal
7-1 WKBW HD 92% signal
7-2 WNGS 92% signal
9-1 CFTO HD 87% signal
17-1 WNED HD 100% signal
17-3 WNED TH 100% signal
23-1 WNLO HD 100% signal
25-1 CBLFT D 73% signal
29-1 WUTV HD 65% signal
41-1 CIII DT 83% signal
44-1 OMNI 2 75% signal
49-1 WNYO HD 87% signal
57-1 CITY HD 60% (weak signal)
64-1 OMNI 1 83% signal
66-1 CKXT DT 76% signal

I read when stacking they should be at least 3 ft apart and at least 90º angles to avoid crossing the beams.UHF antennas should be at least 1 full Channel 14 wavelength apart, which equals 25.12 inches, so a little over 2 feet, but nothing wrong with using 3 feet if you have the room.

When you guys talk about crossing the beams I keep thinking of the Ghostbusters and their plasma rifles: "Don't ever, ever cross the beams!!!" :D

Antennas have beam patterns of reception and they can definitely be crossed (actually overlapped is a more accurate term) for achieving different results, so the 90 degree measurement you mentioned is not right.

Where did you get that 3 foot and 90 degree info, BTW? Post #16 in the OTA FAQ has the info needed for combining 2 or more antennas -------->

What happens post DTV OTA transition? Many stations will be reducing power--and that may present some challenges.
The way I see it with all the uncertainties including the one you just mentioned it’s difficult at this time to make real good recommend on just what antenna to select. With introduction of the new CM 4228 HD and CM 4221HD without Channel M providing real lab measurements (Polar plots) to compare to the older models. It makes it difficult to recommend one or the other antenna.

Several members have created models of the new antennas and calculated their performance via computer programs. Produced some very interesting results, check out the some of the other threads regarding “The Specs Are In: New CM Antennas vs. Old

I want to install OTA outdoor antenna and need an advice. Misississauga

Since every installation has its own difficulties and never mind what each owner is willing to accept performance wise. Making proper selection of the antenna or antennas is not always straight forward. The only real know factor for sure is we know how the classic CM4228 & CM4221 perform in the past. If you lived in GTA I had no reservation not to recommend getting a CM 4228 + Rotor you should have be able to receive all twenty five channels (one of the simplest installations). I am not so sure now with the introduction of the new 4228HD, I guess will have to wait and see.

Thanks to several members who posted the results after installing these newer CM antennas we are slowing finding real life capabilities of the new models. It looks like the only way to find out their real performance at this time, is through the “buy and try” process. I guess it will eventually come out in the wash.

firechkn (TO) and Markf, (Burlington) have posted some great results so far with their 4221HD, :D it seems it is a good all around performer. Basically does the new 4221HD have the sufficient reach to receive all the Buffalo stations and TO stations (twenty five Ch's) without a rotor? (solid signals on all channels no dropouts)? If the answer is yes it might eliminate the need of the 4228 from many GTA locations. I know it is just general observation at this time, but so far things look very promising

Another thing I found, using Google Earth I marked off our three locations across the GTA Burlington, Mississauga and Ellesmere and Markham Rd in Toronto. I checkout our distance from several different US stations and were pretty well the same distance away from several US transmitters. With firechkn having farthest (+- 5miles) to have reach some of them. I know this is a “very ruff survey” considering there are so many factors to consider (installations, heights, tree, buildings, hills, weather etc.), but hopefully this will shine some light, and help some who are trying to select which antenna to purchase. It would nice to hear more info from the individuals who purchase the new CM4228HD.

Again please note this is just one of my preliminary observation so far and it may change, but I thought I would share.

Still so much to learn, but it’s interesting!

UHF antennas should be at least 1 full Channel 14 wavelength apart

Hi stampeder,

I agree with your explanation, but way back when I combined my 4221 with my previously installed 4228+rotor. I had little or no room :eek: and I had no choice but to mount it within in an inch of each other. Fortunately it didn’t have any severe effect, and was just wondering if firechkn had experiment with the varying distances. It would be interesting to see what he would come up with.

UHF antennas should be at least 1 full Channel 14 wavelength apart, which equals 25.12 inches, so a little over 2 feet, but nothing wrong with using 3 feet if you have the room.

When you guys talk about crossing the beams I keep thinking of the Ghostbusters and their plasma rifles: "Don't ever, ever cross the beams!!!" :D

Antennas have beam patterns of reception and they can definitely be crossed (actually overlapped is a more accurate term) for achieving different results, so the 90 degree measurement you mentioned is not right.

Where did you get that 3 foot and 90 degree info, BTW? Post #16 in the OTA FAQ has the info needed for combining 2 or more antennas -------->
Nothing I did was scientific at all, the distance I used were from my observation and word of mouth, but I'm glad you have confirmed the 25.12" distance apart, I could use a little more height. I will tweak some more and report my findings.

After reading so much positive GTA OTA reports I was very optimistic this would work for me. I'm happy to report I have called Rogers to cancel my cable service once and for all.

I'm happy to report I have called Rogers to cancel my cable service once and for all.
Welcome to the club! :D

Some interesting finds this weekend. After closer inspection I realized only one of my CM4221HD antennas were actually hooked up properly.

The results I reported on Post #601 was only from the antenna pointed at Buffalo. Without thoroughly checking, I thought I had combined both antennas successfully, one at Buffalo the other at TO. I was sadly mistaken.

Although I questioned the purpose of a diplexer at the store, I took their word that this device would combine both antenna signals into a single usable signal. It does not for my purpose.

Anyways, I found out the problem when I wasn't getting much luck achieving a better TO signal no matter how much I adjusted the dead antenna.

I'm glad to report all my channels are coming in much stronger now and picked up a few additional channels to boot. The SD and analogue channels are not listed. This is without a pre-amp to one HDTV combining two CH4221HD antennas.


2-1 WGRZ HD 92% - No change
4-1 WIVB HD 100% - No change
5-1 CBLT DT 100% - Perfect now
7-1 WKBW HD 92% - No change
7-2 WNGS 92% - No change
9-1 CFTO HD 100% - Perfect now
11-1 CHCH DT 66% - Coming in strong now
17-1 WNED HD 100% - No change
17-3 WNED TH 100% - No change
23-1 WNLO HD 100% - No change
25-1 CBLFT D 95% - Nice improvement
29-1 WUTV HD 100% - Perfect now
36-1 CTS HD 46% - Coming in now
41-1 CIII DT 92% - Nice improvement
44-1 OMNI 2 92% - Nice improvement
49-1 WNYO HD 75% - Slightly weaker
57-1 CITY HD 82% - Nice improvement
64-1 OMNI 1 100% - Perfect now
66-1 CKXT DT 92% - Nice improvement

Who sold you the diplexer? They obviously didn't understand your intentions or didn't know what the diplexer actually did.. (or both :o)

Glad to hear things worked out well with the joining. I was considering it for a while, but found a single 4228(old) to be satisfactory in reception of buffalo and T.O.
(I don't get CH or CTS, though, but don't really care :p)

Agreed - I hope they'll give you a full refund once you clarify the mistaken communication.

Although I questioned the purpose of a diplexer at the store, I took their word that this device would combine both antenna signals into a single usable signal. It does not for my purpose.

Could be the person who sold you the wrong type of diplexer? The one I describe bellow won’t work and note they are several types of diplexers for different needs.

One Example: Diplexer/Combiner

High performance device with outstanding specifications. It separates or combines off-air TV-Antenna and Satellite signals from or onto a single feed coaxial line!!! One port DC pass.

This is without a pre-amp to one HDTV combining two CH4221HD antennas.
Could you please clarify, are you saying these are your results from only “one antenna” (CM4221HD-without a Pre Amp) and you are not combining two antennas?

If so and you still want to combine your two antennas? You can get standard TV splitter, just try that in reverse to combine the two antennas and see what you get. You might receive other stations you didn’t receive before like CHCH 11 or others. But beware you most likely get some sort of undesirable interaction between antennas as well, then then the fun begins. In the end you might find that one antenna sufficient for your needs?

Who sold you the diplexer? They obviously didn't understand your intentions or didn't know what the diplexer actually did.. (or both )

Are we allowed to mention stores here? I'll just chalk it up as a communication error, it happens. Overall I'm still happy with the information and helpful advice I received there.

Could you please clarify, are you saying these are your results from only “one antenna” (CM4221HD-without a Pre Amp) and you are not combining two antennas?

If so and you still want to combine your two antennas? You can get standard TV splitter, just try that in reverse to combine the two antennas and see what you get. You might receive other stations you didn’t receive before like CHCH 11 or others. But beware you most likely get some sort of undesirable interaction between antennas as well, then then the fun begins. In the end you might find that one antenna sufficient for your needs?

Sorry, let me clarify. The new results are from both antennas using a quality splitter. All channels come in clear now with much better gain including CHCH 11. No adverse affect at all, as you can see with my previous result with only one antenna compared to the new results with two.

You are right, one antenna would be sufficient for my location, if I pointed the antenna more south westerly I'm sure I could find a happy medium between Buffalo and Toronto. But as it is now I'm getting great results with two without the need for an amp so I'm happy :)

This is without a pre-amp to one HDTV combining two CH4221HD antennas.

Just read your comment again my mistake :confused:, I understand now sorry about that.

Looks like you have some very good results :)

No adverse affect at all, as you can see with my previous result with only one antenna compared to the new results with two.

That's great did you get a chance to try positioning the two antennas at different distance between them? Just curious if you noticed any difference?

Since you are on other side of the GTA you might try manually tuning in on (HDTV) some of the stations from Rodchester you might be able to pickup some. On the westside of the GTA I can pickup couple of additional channels 26.1 & 26.2. If you could receive them that would excellent, I just want to know what the max distance the CM4221HD can actually receive. (Real life conditions)

Great results!

That's great did you get a chance to try positioning the two antennas at different distance between them? Just curious if you noticed any difference?

Yes, I did raise the lower antenna, they are just over 2 ft apart now. I played with the angle a little, they are about 80º apart.

Since you are on other side of the GTA you might try manually tuning in on (HDTV) some of the stations from Rodchester you might be able to pickup some. On the westside of the GTA I can pickup couple of additional channels 26.1 & 26.2. If you could receive them that would excellent, I just want to know what the max distance the CM4221HD can actually receive. (Real life conditions)

I'll give it try this weekend. Thanks.

hi friends on this nice OTA discussion board.

I put two 4-bay clone antennas in the attic of 2-story house. One pointing to CN tower and one to Buffalo. The feedlines are then joined by a reversed 2-way splitter.

I am getting strong signal on all buffalo stations but WGRZ/NBC is suffering a high dropout rate, even with just the buffalo antenna connected. From the chart generated by tvfool.com those stations are almost on the same line from my location.

I am quite a bit out of idea now. is there something wrong with my equipment/aiming/installation? thanks for your input.

The results I reported on Post #601 was only from the antenna pointed at Buffalo. Without thoroughly checking, I thought I had combined both antennas successfully, one at Buffalo the other at TO. I was sadly mistaken.I appreciate your sharing of experience with us.

It would be great, if you could provide us with installation details - e.g. mounting devices, roof vs wall, heights ... etc ... cheers/e

I put two 4-bay clone antennas in the attic of 2-story house. One pointing to CN tower and one to Buffalo. The feedlines are then joined by a reversed 2-way splitter.

Atticmount,

I guess you're going to have to install either one or both outside mounted as high as possible. It is good news that you are getting almost all channels and still in the attic. But, depending on how many layers of shingles (this will reduce the signal getting through), your best bet is to take it outside.

Is this possible for you?

hi friends on this nice OTA discussion board.

I put two 4-bay clone antennas in the attic of 2-story house. One pointing to CN tower and one to Buffalo. The feedlines are then joined by a reversed 2-way splitter.

I am getting strong signal on all buffalo stations but WGRZ/NBC is suffering a high dropout rate, even with just the buffalo antenna connected. From the chart generated by tvfool.com those stations are almost on the same line from my location.

I am quite a bit out of idea now. is there something wrong with my equipment/aiming/installation? thanks for your input.
WGRZ and WUTV from Buffalo are hard to get reliably for most of us without deep fringe equipment.
I don't mean to be too critical, but you did ask if there was a problem with your equipment or set-up.
Problem one, 4 bay (8 would work better) (i have 16 for buffalo, 8 for toronto)
Problem two, clone
Problem three, attic
Problem four, combined (each antenna loses 3 dB)
Suggestions:
A pre-amp might help
Pointing them in the same direction and using a rotor will help.
Putting them outside, as high as possible, will help.

Good Luck!!

P.S. for me, Lately, maybe because its spring, FOX and NBC are coming in stronger than before.

Yes, I did raise the lower antenna, they are just over 2 ft apart now. I played with the angle a little, they are about 80º apart.



I'll give it try this weekend. Thanks.
Where did you get the pole? the long pole you mount to your chimmey.

Also what do you do to rust proof the pole?