Possibly.. But if I turn the antenna towards buffalo I get NBC and ION no problem. The issue though is that I'll start to lose Global and City.

Ok, for now the 2 antenna solution might be the way to go until Aug 2011 when those TO stations up their ERP. I don't like using 2 antennas but it suits my purpose until that date. You can point at Batavia and get everything else from Buffalo with no problem.

I'm located in Richmond Hill but put up the antenna in my sister's attic (2 story house) in Stouffville located east of 9th just north of Hoover Park. She has a 46" Sony and a CM-7000PAL; Buffalo NBC 2 is solid, along with all the others except for ION 51. No amps in the 50 foot cable run. After seeing my HD results in Richmond Hill (Yonge and Elgin Mills) she wanted the full 1080 experience OTA rather than paying for 720 offered by the cable provider.

I, on the other hand, can not get CHCH 11 or CTS 36 (unless I rotate the antenna, which I don't bother with) and Buffalo's MyTV 49 is 50/50, even though I have a rooftop mounted CM4228 on a rotor. Because I also have a DVR (rarely watch live TV anymore) I decided to split my signal and which immediately caused me to lose 2 of my weaker Buffalo channels, but a CM distribution amp brought those back solid (cable run of about 70 feet).

What direction is your sisters antenna pointed at? I would suggest pointing it at ION in Batavia and it will not affect any of the other Buffalo stations, and a pre-amp is a must. You may lose Global and CKXT because of their low ERP until the August 2011 transition. To get ION consistent in Stouffville you have to aim at it. I had 7/10 bars this morning and it was -15C which is odd for cold weather. It's usually 2-3 bars in winter and full bars in summer.

Antenna is pointing south-west otherwise Hamilton would not be possible to pick up. Agree that pointing more south eastward I may be able to pick up 51 but I've seen the programming and not particularly interested. Being located in the attic and thus protected from the elements means everything stays simple and low-tech (antenna hanging by a string); I suppose I could experiment and rig up a small motor to act like a rotor and deflect say 25 degrees in either direction to get a few more stations.

Agree that I've heard that when analog goes dead after transition August 2011 there will be better reception, I may even be tempted to rotate my antenna to pick up some of the Rochester stations I occassionally get from Richmond Hill but likley this would not be worth anything, since the major networks there are just repeating the same stuff that is on Buffalo stations.

Overall I'm extremely surprized and satisfied with the results in both Stouffville and Richmond Hill.

Good results. I'd always add a pre-amp on an attic setup because IMHO overpowering becomes a non-issue unless you're located downtown. This was the opinion of Save and Replay and certainly helped make my setup more reliable.

I think people should be aware of antennas like the Antennas Direct Clearstream2 with its ultra-wide beam width. I point at Buffalo and pick up Hamilton 11-1 with no rotation required. It's a great antenna to consider if you're doing a new setup in the northern GTA.

IMHO overpowering becomes a non-issue unless you're located downtown

For digital stations, I agree with you. However, if you're pointing at the CN Tower with your antenna, you're getting blasted by high-power analog channels that are going to create noise in your preamp. Once we go all-digital and the analogs are off the air, we should get better reception of the weaker channels out of Buffalo. The higher gain your preamp, the more things should improve, even if they don't increase the power of the digital channels at all..

I'm looking forward to leaving behind the old analog past next summer. If things improve just a tad, my reception will be perfect. :D

I figured given the warmer two days (New Year's eve & day) I would move my DB8 from the attic to the roof. I mounted the antenna on a tripod with the antenna mounted about 5' up on the mast, kept the same TV fools antenna pointing guide & played with the pointing of the antenna for the best results.
I actually DID NOT GET A BETTER/STRONGER SIGNAL, in fact, all the sattions remained the same with the exception of 2-1 NBC which saw a slight increased of 5-8 % on the TV's signal meter. The original cable run to the attic of (16') was only extended by 5' with a good coupler (total 21').
I would have thought that with the outside setup (gain) would over shadow any loss - if any -from the coupler.
At first I thought the wacky weather (New Year's eve) was the cause, but the next day the levels were throught the roof. I have never had 2-1, 4-1 or 7-1 hit the 95-98%. I believe that these numbers were related to the +10 degrees temperatures, because when temperatures dipped down again on Sunday my levels were back to the same as when the antenna was in the attic.
So, in my case higher isn't better, attic or roof made no difference.:(
Like the realestate slogan says, it must be all "Location, location, location...."

Any thoughts are (or sympathy) LOL.... is welcome.:(

Paul

What a let-down feeling that must be. I bet over the long-term, though, you'll see a more significant improvement than you've seen so far.

Thanks HWP, yes, a big let down indeed. Probably over the long term (come warmer weather) I will see even better results than what I received over last summer, which were very good, all channels were solid, and solid from July (when I first installed) to late November when temperatures dipped.
Anyway, I have one last trick up my sleeve to try....I'll post it if it works....don't want to jinx anything. LOL

Paul

... So, in my case higher isn't better, attic or roof made no difference.:(
Like the realestate slogan says, it must be all "Location, location, location...."

Any thoughts are (or sympathy) LOL.... is welcome.:(

Paul
Cross lake conditions are weird at present due to the dramatic changes in termperature. Watch your signal levels for a week before you draw a conclusion about reception from the outside location. The height change is relatively minor so most signal improvement would come from eliminating attenuation caused by the building structure. The old rule of thumb says doubling the antenna height produces a 3 dB gain.

If you don't have a preamp on the antenna then consider getting one. I am in a terrible reception location that was one of the first areas wired for cable TV in North York. I use a Channel Master 7777 that makes all the difference in receiving US stations. Without the preamp and no signal splitter in the line I get 23-1 and 4-1 while with the preamp and a two port splitter I get 2-1, 7-1 and 29-1 (and sub channels of course). I get the Toronto stations but the low power channels like Global and Sun can be a problem without the preamp. The 7777 has separate VHF and UHF amplifiers so I have the combining switch set to separate and the VHF input terminated to prevent overload from 5 and 9. After analog shutdown I will decide how to deal with VHF depending on reception conditions for CFTO and CHCH (assuming they move the digital signal to physical channel 11). In your location you might find the separate VHF preamp useful if you try to get 10 from Barrie or 13 from Kitchener.

My two cents worth.

...I moved my DB8 from the attic to the roof. I mounted the antenna on a tripod with the antenna mounted about 5' up on the mast .... case higher isn't better, attic or roof made no difference.:(
Like the realestate slogan says, it must be all "Location, location, location...."

Having experimented with attic versus roof installation myself, I agree with what you discovered (no difference). More important for improved reception is height, and the 3 or 4 feet higher (on the roof versus inside the peak) is not going to make any appreciable difference.

If you look at the composition of a typical residential roof you have mainly nails (negligable adverse effect), soft wood and roof tiles (usually fibreglass these days). Given that water content of these materials is low and density is also relatively low, one would likely get better reception through a typical roof than through a roof made of cheese. :-)

Yes, I'm near Davis & Patterson and I get 11 channels with the same system you suggested. about 25' in the air. Huron Heights is at a higher elevation than Patterson.

can someone explain why the analog shutoff will improve the situation for the weaker Buffalo station? i sometimes have problem with ABC and CBS for a short period of time like 10~15 and it comes back and is steady for most of the time wonder if that's going to be improved

Hi Mitch,

Thanks for your post. Do you have a single or double 4228hd set-up? Are your 11 channnels all from Canada? What American channels to you get?

Thanks!

can someone explain why the analog shutoff will improve the situation for the weaker Buffalo station? i sometimes have problem with ABC and CBS for a short period of time like 10~15 and it comes back and is steady for most of the time wonder if that's going to be improved
I am not an expert, but this is more or less what I have gleened over the years. Parts of it could be wrong, and hopefully stampeder will correct me if so, but I think the concept is the same:

The analog channels tend to be much higher powered than their equivalent digital stations. Currently, at least in Canada, we have a blend of analog and digital channels being broadcast, in some cases from the same locations.

The problem arises not from the actual tuner, but from the automatic gain control (part of the tuner circuitry) which processes the signal to a level that can be handled by the tuner. In the case of a weak signal, the amplifier increases the signal level prior to input into the tuner, and in the case of strong signal, it may be attenuated or clipped.

Unfortunately, the AGC does not know the difference between a digital and analog signal, and processes all of the signal in the tuner's input range. Therefore, where the higher powered signals are present (analogue or digital), they tend to force the AGC circuitry to "cripple" the signals being input into the tuner.

Secondly, an external pre-amp or distro-amp, may amplify the strong analog signals to such an extent that the overpowered tuner can't distinguish the weaker digital signals from the amplified noise.

The hope is, that when the strong analog signals have been removed from the spectrum, the AGC circuitry will not be influencing the signals negatively.

hey thanks for the explaination 99gecko, it's been very helpful. Let's hope that it improves my reception of some of the US channel. Crossing my finger.

Hey guys. I got a DB8 (UHF antenna) and it's pretty good. I get a very good selection of channels. That said, do I need a VHF antenna for when the transition happens? I hear the DB8 is crap when it comes to VHF.

I'd rather install it now than later and get it over with - so please let me know if I will need it. I just found out that even though channels like 2.1 and 5.1 have channel numbers < 14, they are actually in the UHF range. Will this be different after the transition? Also what about for CTV (ch 9 VHF), CHCH (ch 11 VHF), etc.

I am in the Vaughan/Richmond Hill area - so CN tower/ Buffalo is pretty much south. I have it attic mounted - it's amazing that I get close to 20 HD channels! Using a 7777 preamp as well.

Thanks!

CFTO-DT currently uses channel 40 and will be reverting "back" to channel 9 post-transition. If you can receive analog (channel 9) CFTO using your antenna, you should be to receive digital CFTO after the transition.

CHCH-DT is on channel 18 but I don't know if they're reverting to channel 11 post-transition.

I use a Winegard HD-8800 and it pulls in CFTO and CHCH analog fairly well. They're not crystal clear but certainly watchable.