: ON - Vaughan/Richmond Hill/Markham/North of 407 - OTA
2010-06-23, 12:23 PM
first post but long time reader...
I have a CM 4221 Original (Not the new HD one)
No Matter what i do i cannot get 2 channels that i absolutely am dying to get!
2.1/2.2/2.3 and 4.1
There are the occasional nights i get them due to clear skies but generally i dont get any signal.
My wiring is less than 50 feet in length and is direct from the Antenna to the TV...Alternately i have it connected to a CM 4 way distribution amplifier as i have split the signal to 2 tv's
Before putting up the CM Original 4-Bay i used to use a Clone 8-Bay which had the same results!
I've also tried the Antra AT-PAU18 Pre-amplifier but when i put that it actually reduces the channels available into the simple local ones like 5.1 and 9.1!
My installation is a chimney mount up high with no obstructions because it is pure suburbia here...
What is the next step?
2010-06-23, 06:14 PM
Hi windmobile how is the cell coverage, mean ota. :)
First of all where are you located, and is the antenna pointed towards Buffalo?
You also need to have a clear view towards Buffalo. No trees and buildings etc.
Hopefully you have the antenna mounted high like on the roof or against a brick chimney if you have one.
2010-06-23, 07:41 PM
I am located near the intersection of Ansley Grove Rd & Chancellor Dr (hwy 7 & weston area)
As far as i know, i have a clear view of Buffalo because the entire area is very low rise!
I have the antenna mounted on a Chimney Mount. I am using a galvanized steel pole from the chimney mount and the CM4221 is inserted into the pole, thus having a pretty good height. The bottom of the antenna is about 15 inches above the chimney mantle
Everything is good overall but what i want to experiment with is attenuators and amplifiers and would like to know how i can put the 2 together so that i can get NBC and CBS! I get the following channels...
25.1 CBC French
44.1 OMNI 2
49.1 MyTV Buffalo
64.1 Omni 1
So as you can see i get everything except for NBC and CBS!
Hope i can finally get this going, ive been doing OTA for over 3 years now but i still havent got these 2 channels yet!
2010-06-23, 08:30 PM
Last Sunday, I installed a setup in Vaughan, and had much the same problem. Never saw CBS. NBC was low, and PBS was dropping out Iheard latter sunday was a bad day for PBS). This was a wall mount, so antenna was 7 ft above the evestrough.
We tried a 3412 distribution amp, didn't help. We tried a 6dB attenuator, didn't help. Tried both, didn't help.
I didn't have a UVSJ to try, I suspect it would help a bit to filter off the VHF.
The problem is we are trying to pick up far away stations that are directly in line with CN tower. Too much analog power, swamping out the low power digital stations.
Not much we can do about it, without extreme measures, meaning costly. How about notch filters for 19, 25, 41, 47etc.?
The good news is they will shut down analog in a little over 14 months.
I usually use a 10ft mast on a chimney mount, putting the antenna 7ft above the mantle. More hieght might help, a bit.
2010-06-24, 11:08 AM
A few years ago I did a service call in your area Weston and Langstaff.
The customer went to a local antenna store in the Dufferin area and the silly sales guy back then sold him 2x 4228.
They also installed it and was clued out as they pointed one antenna east and one west towards the airport and he was wondering why he was having reception problems.
The two 4228 antenna's was mounted on his chimney using a 1.0" pipe.
I went there to realign the antenna. I disconnect one and peak the antenna for Nbc and Fox. They all came in. I told the home owner he has to remove one antenna or use a thicker pole. He said leave it first he will take care of it.
Remember that big ice storm we had a few years ago well he did nothing and sent me a email that the pole collapsed. I told him so. :) I was away back then in BVI and could do nothing.
Plus those yahoo did not even ground the antenna.
Anyway, the customer with a single 4228 was able to get Nbc and Cbs too. I have installed a 4221 north of you and was able to get Nbc and Cbs. I have encountered once in Markham that a customer gets everything except Cbs. This was around Highway 7 and Leslie north west.
I would try the direct cable run to the tv and see if you can repeak the antenna while on Nbc channel.
2010-06-26, 08:27 PM
Hi everyone, I'm new to OTA HD antennas and I was wondering if anyone can help me. I tried installing my CM4221, 2 stories high on the back wall of my house (outdoor). Unfortunately, although I get some signal (for CBC and CTV), they are not HD clear.
I pointed in the same direction as advised from tvfool, however I have poor luck getting any channels. I think it has to do with my environment, since I have a lot of tall trees in my backyard (as tall as the house). i'm also running a 50ft cable.
2010-06-26, 09:03 PM
Sounds like your talking about CBC and CTV analog which are VHF channels. The 4221 is a UHF antenna, but seeing your so close to Toronto, you should be getting better results even on VHF analog. Seems like you should take a second run at hooking the cables and antenna up properly. You shouldn't bother adding a preamp until you've masters the connections.
2010-06-26, 09:43 PM
Do you or does your TV have the ATSC tuner? That is a pretty good area for signal.
2010-06-26, 10:09 PM
thanks for the quick reply!
Yup my TV has an ATSC tuner. I did a channel scan, did not find any digital channels, and CBC/CTV were the only analog channels. My only assumption is the trees at the back. Since I don't have a clear line of sight to the CN tower. Perhaps I should climb on the roof?
2010-06-26, 11:12 PM
So you are getting CBC on 5 but not 5.1? If everything is hooked up properly CBC 5.1 is almost a no-brainer. I would recheck and re-connect everything and try another scan. Play with your aiming if everything looks like it is hooked up properly. Does your TV give you the option of analog and/or digital channel scan? Make sure you have the proper one selected before scanning as well.
windmobile, hey there neighbour! I'm actually over by Chancellor and Aberdeen.
I'm using a 4221HD attached to my chimney and I too have a hard time with NBC. I sometimes get CBS and ABC only comes in sporadically. MyTV is about as reliable as ABC so I don't use it that often. I was thinking of trying a 4228 or a DB8 but I'm not sure if it's worth any more tinkering (and cost) although Save & Replay told me that I should have gone with the DB8 from the start considering where we're located. I've also since added a Winegard 269 preamp but I don't think it's helped much more than what I was already getting. If I were to change anything, I would probably buy a longer pole to raise the antenna higher since it's very close to the chimney right now.
Let me know if you want to check any things out or compare notes. I'd love to get ABC to come in more steady.
P.S. Which direction are you pointing the antenna towards?
2010-06-27, 02:21 AM
Well I moved into my new house on Wednesday. Tried an indoor antenna first thing but no joy. With my original 4221 standing on some boxes beside the TV I was able to get a few channels. Today when I had some breaks in the rain I mounted my 4221 to my chimney. I did a really quick install pointed towards 7.1 from what tvfool told me and just ran a line straight down to my TV. No fine tuning at all and the results exceeded my expectations by far.
2.1 2.2 2.3 81 24db
4.1 89 28db
5.1 98 31
7.1 95 29db
9.1 89 28db
11.1 67 20db
17.1 17.2 17.3 95 29db
23.1 95 30db
25.1 95 30db
26.1 26.2 59 17db
29.1 98 30db
41.1 84 25db
44.1 98 32db
49.1 87 27db
51.1 51.2 51.3 65 18d
57.7 81 24db
64.1 98 33 db
66.1 76 23db
I am over joyed to pick up ION, did not expect to at all. My wife does not share my happiness. I don't think I am going to try fine tuning the antenna at all.
Here is my original post.
2010-06-27, 12:53 PM
Yup, my tv (sharp 46d62u) did scan for digital and analog AIR, and still only picked up those two analog channels (5,9). Boy 5.1 being a no-brainer, I feel bad, is it possible that the small forest behind my backyard is the problem. The forest is only 2 houses wide, and the trees are as tall as my house. I really dont want to climb on the roof since it's pretty steep.
2010-06-27, 03:44 PM
Here's my TV Fool results http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9fbecb7c5b6ade. Would a 4221 be able to pick up all the Buffalo stations at my location? Or would a 8 bay antenna be better (4228/DB-8)?
Thanks in advance
Good news and bad news:
The bad news... I checked online your TV's model number and CNET says your TV does not have an ATSC tuner.
Analog tuners are NTSC tuners and that's why you're able to get the analog channels.
The Good News: Your antenna probably works and soon you will be enjoying free HDTV on your TV.
This is what you need: You need a small ATSC tuner box placed beside your TV. You have to get a Centronics ZAT502 HD $159 at Save and Replay, or a Channel Master 7000 PAL DVR $399 or cheaper depending on where you find it. $419 at Save and Replay. It's expensive but it's a PVR for OTA.
I was at a small electronics shop in my neighbourhood and I found a no-name box for $85 that will work for your TV.
Be careful not to buy a Digital-to-Analog converter box (typically $30 to $100). It won't work for your TV. They are intended to work for CRT TVs. If you buy one of them, you'll get an analog picture on your HDTV - as if you were using a standard definition Rogers box on your HDTV. You won't be happy.
Alternatively, you could purchase an ATSC tuner for your computer and then connect the computer to your TV, but this will not be convenient unless you've specifically been planning to dedicate a computer to become a PVR for your TV. People call these HTPC (Home Theatre Personal Computer). You can learn about them on this forum.
Anyway, I think this is your problem. No ATSC tuner. Even where you are, a paper clip in your coax jack should pull in CBC digital without any problem.
Please double check online to confirm but that link I found said your TV only has an NTSC tuner.
Don't fret! Free HD will look great once you get your external ATSC tuner box for your TV.
2010-07-01, 04:22 AM
That review says digital & analog tuners are built in.
2010-07-02, 01:51 PM
It does, doesn't it? I wonder if he has attached his antenna to the wrong input or the ATSC need to be enabled in the menu somewhere...
I guess I was wrong. I only noticed the NTSC part near the top. Futher down, I see it includes NTSC ATSC and QAM tuners.
Is your TVFool Report for your EXACT address? Is your house in a valley or in the shadow of a hill. We know about the small forest nearby.
Can you temporarily get more height by getting the antenna on to your roof?
According to your TV Fool report, with an antenna on your roof you should be expecting at least 15 digital channels plus subchannels.
Other guesses: failing to scan properly on the TV, faulty connection or wire, something on the antenna is not connected.
Here is an idea. If you have any other coax cable lying around, dismount your antenna and run the cable outside. Get outside and point toward Toronto from ground level. Re-scan your channels.
Don't give up. This is not a problem. It is just a "project." It will work once you've found the weak link in your system.
Other option: contact an installer ("yaamon" member of this forum installed my system). Money well spent. Your experience confirms this with me. He got all the basic stuff installed properly. From now on, I can tinker and fine tune by myself.
2010-07-07, 01:41 PM
Hi All~! I'm so happy that I found this forum as most of you are experts about OTA TV! :D
I've just moved to a new house and wanted to install OTA antenna and give it a try.
Here is my tvfool result: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9fbec75a1be4f5
The previous house owner installed Bell ExpressVu dish on the side of the wall. so there is already a cable line running from there into the house. I believe they had splitted the line to the living room and also the master bedroom.
I am wondering if I can give it a try by attaching Channel Master 4221HD at the same spot of the Bell dish and connects it to the same line?
do you think it would work? Also, I've searched for a while is J-pole the right mounting system that I should go for if I want to mount it on the side of the wall? :confused:
2010-07-07, 06:32 PM
You are practically a neighbor of mine. This area has good OTA Reception if you do it right.