In response to DBDave's reply #1014 and Stamperder's #1022 to my problem...

Summary to original issue:
CM 4228HD with a CM7777 preamp. Antenna mounted on 2nd story house in Markham on the chimney pointing at Buffalo. The picture quality is not stable for both Buffalo and Toronto stations.

What I did recently...
I removed the stock balun and replaced them with 2 300-75ohm standard baluns from Home Hardware. I connected the balun's onto the same plastic connector mounts the original balun wires connected to. I connected those balun's to a standard 2 to 1 splitter in reverse via 2 2.5' cables. This time I ran the cables directly back and behind the reflectors. The splitter connected to the CM7777. In the 7777 I switched the VHF switch to separate and connected the amp UHF output to the house feed\amp power supply. I left the FM trap in the "In" position as the manual states:

FM TRAP (where applicable)
This broadband trap is shipped with the switch in the "IN" position, thus eliminating FM signal. If FM signals are desired, slide the switch to the "out" position. See Figure 2.

The result is...
The picture may be a slight bit more stable. Both Toronto and Buffalo are still problematic. My signal strength went down between 1% - 4% for Toronto channels and 5% - 11% for Buffalo. I lost channel 29 (Fox) picture altogether but still have a strong signal! I also lost channel 26 but that signal was weak to begin with.

Just to add but not sure if it matters...
I'm using a Craig CVD508 ATSC D\A converter connected to an older tube TV.

Can you see anything I screwed up on with the hack or any other suggestions?

Can you see anything I screwed up on with the hack or any other suggestions?
I can't comment on the hack, but I've installed 4228HD's that worked just about perfect out of the box. Except that most of them require some adjustment, straightening to make them symetrical, paralellel, balun pulled back a bit away from the bowties, and so on.
And I've also installed in Markham and there is no reason you shouldn't have a good signal, if you've got enough height and a clear view.
Are you sure you don't have trees or buildings in the way?
The first thing I would do is try a different tuner.

I need to get a second tuner anyway. Any comments on the CM-7000?

You'll find reviews about that converter box and many others in this thread:

ATSC Converter Boxes (Non-HD, Non-Recording) (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=42186)

We don't discuss them here - just your local reception issues. :)

Hi all, I'm at Major Mackensie and McCowan.

I just started into this a week ago with my old $10 UHF loop/VHF rabbit ears and Radio Shack 10dB 50-900Mhz booster and was pleasantly surprised to get 10 channels from my 2nd storey bedroom facing SW.

After reading the FAQs etc here (thank-you!), and not wanting to muck around on top my roof in November, I picked up a $30 indoor TERK HDTVa (10dB amplified zenith silver sensor clone uhf/vhf combo). The amplified Terk is in upstairs bedroom, connected to house RG6 to basement, connected to my Radio Shack 10dB booster, then connected to my HDTV, all RG6. I am getting these 18 channels solidly (I've scanned up to 21). Interestingly, without the extra boost from my Radio shack booster in the basement, a few channels are not as solid.

2-1 WGRZ-HD
2-2 WGRZ-US
2-3 WGRZ-RT
5-1 CBLT-DT
7-1 WKBW-HD
9-1 CFTO-HD
11-1 CHCH-DT
23-1 WNLO-HD
25-1 CBLFT-D
29-1 WUTV-HD, 29-2 WUTV-SD
41-1 CIII-DT
44-1 OMNI2
49-1 WNYO-HD, 49-2 WNYO-SD
57-1 City-HD
64-1 OMNI1
66-2 CKXT-DT (sun tv)

I'm really happy with this and will get getting rid of Rogers soon :-)

My lazy side is thinking there may not be much more cost-effort-benefit to putting up an outdoor antenna next year, ground it, preamp it, yadada...? Not sure how may more channels would I likely get and which ones for all that extra money and effort? ;-)

thanks again all, awesome forum...

Petey

Really up to you. You don't have all of the possible stations, specifically WIVB (4-1) which is the CBS affilate from Buffalo. Also lookes like PBS, ION and TBN are all absent but not everyone cares about those stations.

You are fortuante in the sense that you can now wait it out and see how your results are over the winter. If you are happy with it, then stand pat. If you decide you want better/more reliable signal, other stations, or such, then going outdoors will see that boot occur. If you look at it as a one-time investment, then it pays off over time if you decide you can live without the cable-only HD stations (TSN, Sportsnet, Discovery, et al)

lbrasi, I'm actually surprised that I got Fox as well. Everything I've read and heard seemed to indicate that it would be very hard for us up here to get it with the 4221. Surprsingly it's one of the stations that seems to come in at 6/6 bars in Win7MC all the time. Haven't had a hiccup on it yet. WGRZ and WKBW are pretty much useless as they break up too much or don't show up at all during certain times. WNYO seems to come and go as well but it's usually good for the most part.

Good luck with trying to get yours all setup and let us know how you do.

Lobo

Thanks Tom.F.1,

I went out yesterday and replaced the D2A converter with a CM7000. Reception is fine now. The old one is a paperweight now.

I think I will reverse the hardware hack though as I lost CHCH Hamilton and FOX Buffalo. Should be good to go then.

Thanks Tom.F.1,

I went out yesterday and replaced the D2A converter with a CM7000. Reception is fine now. The old one is a paperweight now.

I think I will reverse the hardware hack though as I lost CHCH Hamilton and FOX Buffalo. Should be good to go then.
the cm7000 is the one I would have recommended.
From what I've read on here, the hack only works with low loss baluns and splitter and some brands work better than others. Shouldn't need a hack with a 7777 preamp. IMHO.

Hey alebowgm, appreciate your the feedback to my post #1056.
I was satisfied until finding out I was missing PBS-WNED (which I like).

So, did some more reading here and then went out and bought another identical amplified Terk HDTVa for $20.
Ganged it side by side with the one in my 2nd storey bedroom, same direction, same cable length, touching.
Combined it with my noname but seems decent 5-2050Mhz splitter.
RG6 down to basement to my Radio Shack booster/distribution.

Now I am getting 3 more solid channels in addition to the original 18:
17-1 WNED-HD, 17-2 WNED-SD
17-3 WNED-TH
(also scanning but only sometimes getting:
4-1 WIVB-HD
51-1 ION
51-2 qubo
51-3 IONLife
51-4 worship)

Without the Radio Shack booster in basement the WNED channels were breaking up, but consistently good with it. I'm also getting very clear on most analog channels (getting 11).

Yay got what I wanted and am now really satisfied :-)
If this works solidly through the winter, I'm laughin' ;-)

Petey

Hey guys I was wondering something. I found a signal meter for my Hauppauge ATSC tuner so now I have a little bit more information about my channels instead of bars in Win7MC. The SNR on the good stations shows a value of 27. Some of the Buffalo stations like WIVB are around 18-20 while WKBW is 11.5 or worse making it so that I can't get the picture most of the time.

Would it make sense to get a preamp in my case or would I be taking a chance on overloading the tuner? I've read on the other threads about sending too strong a signal so I don't know if I'm hurting myself or not by trying to do this. The CM 7777 or 7778 seems like the most popular one but it's also $100. What exactly could I end up experiencing if I were to plug one of these guys in? Will I actually get these channels to come in if they don't today?

Lobo

Lobo, if its not too much trouble would you be able to redo your list in Post #1050 with the SNR and level numbers for each?

Also have you posted your TVFool report here before? If not, please go to www.tvfool.com and put in your address and then when it gives you your chart just copy and paste the URL from your browser's location bar into a reply here to this thread so that we can also see your chart. The info on that chart will be a huge benefit for the folks here who can then offer some great advice.

Hey Stampeder, yeah I think I should be able to. I'll try and and get the numbers some time tomorrow and post them here. I'll do the tvfool info too since I used that site a lot before even getting the antenna.

Lobo

Hi everyone, here are the signal to noise ratio numbers that my ATSC tuner was providing this afternoon at 3:00PM for each. Note that I also hooked up a coax grounding block today but it hasn't really affected the channels. WIVB is not watchable today but I think it has more to do with something else because I removed the grounding block and it's still the same way. It's usually pretty stable.

2.1 WGRZDT 0 - 11.5
2.2 WGRZDT2 0 - 11.5
2.3 WGRZDT3 0 - 11.5
4.1 WIVBDT 14 - 21 (many errors)
5.1 CBLTDT 27
7.1 WKBW-DT 11.5
9.1 CFTODT 27
11.1 CHCHDT 21
17.1 WNEDDT 23
17.2 WNEDDT2 23
17.3 WNEDDT3 23
23.1 WNLODT 23 - 25
25.1 CBLFTDT 27
29.1 WUTVDT 18.5 - 20
29.2 WUTVDT2 18.5 - 20
41.1 CIIIDT 27
44.1 CJMTDT 27
49.1 WNYODT 11.5
49.2 WNYODT2 11.5
57.1 CITYDT 27
64.1 CFMTDT 27
66.1 CKXTDT 27
Also here is my tvfool link to my house:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d7721ebfdd8e69c

Lobo

Hey Lobo.

Sorry nobody replied to you sooner.
I know how to tie it down when going down the side of the brick but what's the best or recommended way to tie down the RG6 over the shingles? Should I tack it down over the top most parts of the roof line?
I just lay my down on the shingles. There was no need to tack it down. If it is secured properly to your chimney and to the side of your house, it won't go anywhere - it might trip a bird, but that's about it. The less you need to penetrate your roof, the better.
I looked at your TVFool results. WGRZ and WNYO should be much harder to receive than WIVB and WKBW. TVfool lists WGRZ as tropo.
Ran 100ft of RG6 (outside) along with another 30ft (inside) to my HTPC with a 950Q USB tuner.
Would it make sense to get a preamp in my case or would I be taking a chance on overloading the tuner?Yes it would make sense, and I doubt you would overload the tuner, in fact it likely is going to really help. Have some attenuators handy just in case. The pre-amp is likely going to really help. Try posting in the preamp thread, and link back to your results here. Mlord and others may suggest a Kitztech preamp over the CM 777x series, but I'll leave that to them (the experts).
What exactly could I end up experiencing if I were to plug one of these guys in? Will I actually get these channels to come in if they don't today?Sorry, but access to the OTA Forum Crystal Ball, is by appointment only, and is restricted to moderators and members who don't have the letter "L" in their username. ;) Just kidding!

Actually there are so many variables that no one can make that kind of prediction. But based on the length of your 130' cable run, I'd guess you have already knocked about 7 dB off your signal, so it can only help. If it doesn't, you could always try reselling it.

cheers

Hey thanks for all the info 99gecko. Much appreciate it.

Lobo

I receive all the Toronto and Buffalo channels with a CM4228HD (without modification).

The CM is mounted on the rear portion of the roof so it peeks south, just slightly above the roof peak (you can't see it from the street). There is a coax run of about 45 feet to the TVs.

Don't get Hamilton stations even though the CM is on a rotor. On rare days I even get some Rochester stations, which are basically duplicates of Buffalo (again why bother using the rotor?).

Had some issues with Buffalo 49.1 which was inconsistent some days. But thanks to expert advice from Yaamon who advised and sold me a distribution amp, it now comes in solid 95% of the time.

On rare days I even get some Rochester stations, which are basically duplicates of Buffalo (again why bother using the rotor?).

Well, technically only the network programming is duplicated, although some syndicated programming is on both stations, but I would not say they are basically duplicates. I wish I could pull them in on a consistent basis on my Toronto setup (just like on my Windsor setup I wish I could sniff Toledo).

I am living just north of Major Mackenzine, between Baview and Leslie in a detach house. How many channels can I receive and how is the quality of signal?


My house is relative new so the distance between our house and neibour is not very long (8 meters?). My house is a bit higher (2 meter) than neibour (my house has watch-out windows in basement). In this case, should I install the outdoor anntenne in attic or on the south of the house (not the roof). Any suggestion how I should install it?

It looks like Channel Master 4228 is a good Antenne. Any other brand-name/model you would like to suggest?

Yes it would make sense, and I doubt you would overload the tuner, in fact it likely is going to really help. Have some attenuators handy just in case. The pre-amp is likely going to really help. Try posting in the preamp thread, and link back to your results here. Mlord and others may suggest a Kitztech preamp over the CM 777x series, but I'll leave that to them (the experts).

It doesn't appear that I'm able to post in that thread with specifics about our area and whether I can get additional channels. :( Guess I'll have to wait and see if any others in this area of the GTA have had any luck with trying out different preamps to get additional channels.

I guess since it's too cold out these days and too slippery on the roof, it can probably wait till Spring time.

Lobo