: ON - Vaughan/Richmond Hill/Markham/North of 407 - OTA
To be honest, I'm not really sure where it's pointed. It was cloudy when I was trying to point the antenna so I didn't know where the CN Tower was (and I didn't have a compass with me). It started to rain while I was up there so I just took my best guess and bolted everything down then got off the roof.
I've decided to add an antenna rotator to my setup so that I won't have to go up there (hopefully) anymore.
2009-04-02, 10:20 AM
You may have overload in your tuner from the preamp.
I just did a service call yesterday on a 4221 HD with a winegard 4700 preamp on the peak of a roof. Cust was not getting any Buffalo results with the preamp powered up and when he unplugs it got a few Buffalo stations.
The customer mentioned that he got better results in the bedroom facing south with the preamp from Buffalo.
Went to the customer home and re did all his coax connectors did not want to take a change hooked up my meter directly to his 4221 HD and repeak slightly.
From the meter he has very strong signal from all the Buffalo station except wnyo 49-1. I mention it's no big loss, if I repeaked more for wnyo Nbc would not be so strong.
The result is that the new 4221 HD seems just as good as the older 4221 as I previously did a install in his area(hwy 7 and Dufferin) 3 years ago.
Using the preamp he could not get Cbs and Abc and Fox properly and other BUffalo stations.
His final setup, without the preamp he gets the Buffalo stations very strong and stable all above 27-29db.
So try without the preamp and use a indoor booster or try attenuators.
2009-04-02, 11:20 AM
Could it be because the 4700 doesn't have an FM trap? Or maybe it's a defective preamp? It seems unlikely for a tuner to get overloaded with just 19dB of gain, especially when our strongest DTV local (CBC) is only transmitting at 38kW. Maybe it's a strong analog station?
Actually, that begs the question - does anyone know where to get the current transmitter power for the analog stations in the GTA?
I'm not sure if that's the case as I've tried removing the pre-amp in the past and tried attenuators as well. I'll give it another shot though just to be sure.
I've recently added another TV Tuner to the mix (Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1250) and with the new tuner I'm getting a pretty strong signal:
I've read that this tuner is more sensitive than my existing tuners (Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600) and so far it looks like it's able to get CBS / ABC / NBC without problems (even when the other tuners can't get a picture). I'd still like to pickup an antenna rotator from you just so that I don't have to go back on the roof as often to repeak.
2009-04-02, 02:39 PM
Regarding the fm trap anything is possible, but over the years that I have sold Winegard and Channel Master preamp the fm trap was never an issue.
The customer previously was using the preamp in his 2nd floor bedroom facing south with good results better than with no preamp.
Because of where he is located he has very strong signal and definitely any preamp would cause over load as it did. As soon as I hooked up my meter right at the antenna, I could tell he was experiencing overload from the preamp
The customer was using the preamp directly into one tuner. His cable run was very short my guess no more than 30'.
dfex, that is very good results with the new tuner, then again it’s a warm day out today :) hope it did not affect reception results.
Wonder if you can try a different splitter, there should be no reason that a better tuner can make a day and night difference. The tuner in the samsung is decent. Try the lna amp setting in the tv and make sure it’s off when you use a preamp.
2009-04-06, 04:05 PM
is anyone able to get NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS, etc (buffalo channels)
without using a pre-amp?
i want to know if my antenna isnt setup properly or
signals arent strong enough to get those channels
im using cm4221hd
2009-04-06, 04:30 PM
With my orignal CM 4228, I don't necessairly need the pre-amp when I only have one TV hooked up. But with my long cable run and the fact I am using two TVs, the negative side was very little (plus I get frequent drop outs normally on CBS and Fox without the pre-amp, a little less frequent with it)...
2009-04-08, 01:15 PM
hmm i cant even get a single frame for those channels, let alone drop outs
so i guess my antenna is set up in the wrong direction?
2009-04-08, 01:53 PM
Check the analog- 4-0 (CBS) , 7-0 (ABC).
Fox 29 (14-1) is difficult to receive.
2009-04-08, 01:58 PM
Hi DarKYiNe, in your location you should be getting terrific OTA signals, so there is something fundamentally wrong with your OTA setup. Some questions:
make and model of your TV
direction your antenna is pointing when you get no signals
is antenna at ground level or higher/lower
Any other info you can give is good if you think it might help.
2009-04-08, 01:59 PM
Welcome DarDYiNe :),
Please help us help you.
Have you read the OTA Knowledge Base & FAQ (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=41102), specifically post #2?
What stations do you currently get?
What is your current gear composed of and how is it set up, including what direction, indoor/outdoor/attic/tower, and are you using a rotor or pre-amp?
Length and type of cable runs?
What obstacles are near you - trees, buildings, hills?
I assume you are on the Oak Ridges Morraine. Elevation should be spectacular in that area. Other members in Uxbridge/Stouffville have reported good results, so I would expect reception should be available in your area.
2009-04-08, 02:27 PM
the antenna is in the attic facing south.. no rotor, no preamp
connected to hauppauge hvr-1600 with 100ft rg6 cable
the channels i get are E!, cbc, cbc french, pbs, ctv, omni1/2, citytv, global, suntv.. pretty much all canadian channels
its the buffalo channels im having problems getting..
and sometimes i lose signal to global and cbc french for a couple of secs
2009-04-08, 02:43 PM
the antenna is in the attic
... no rotor, no preamp
connected to hauppauge hvr-1600 with 100ft rg6 cable
All of that combined I am amazed you are getting what you are.
If you can't move the antenna outside or shorten the cable, I would suggest a pre-amp. At 100' you are loosing about 5 dB for the stations in the mid 30's (where most of the Buffalo stations are physically broadcasting). Since your antenna is in the attic, you could try a simple distribution amp as a test using an extension cord for the power supply. If your results are good you would either put in a real pre-amp, or have to get AC power properly supplied to the attic for use with the distribution amp.
I would do this first before trying a rotor. Others may disagree.
2009-04-08, 02:48 PM
When you are looking south point your antenna a little more to the left (east).
I am just north of you (worthington ave) and have a 4228 and get most of buffalo and toronto from the attic.
2009-04-08, 02:57 PM
Once you're north of Stouffville Sideroad you're down in a little bit of a hollow, but reception is pretty good.
My problem is the opposite of DarKYiNe's. I've got a clear line more to the east, but the CN tower is blocked by large trees, monster homes and my neighbour's "shed", a 45 foot high monstrosity. Until the weather clears, I'm 225 feet from the house with a 4228 clone 7 or 8 feet off the ground and a Digi-crap preamp. CBS, CW, and ABC are rock solid 24/7, and NBC is 50/50. Fox and PBS must be behind the trees because they're almost impossible to pull in. The Toronto channels, except the powerful CBC, are not solid enough to lock on to most days although the TV's strength meter shows action. There was one glorious DX night, (funnily enough the first day I put it up) where I received strong, strong signals on about 19 channels - all the standards except WNYO.
While my results are not similar to yours, I believe they show you should be able to tweak things enough to get the Buffalo stations you want.
2009-04-08, 03:15 PM
DarKYiNe, 99gecko is absolutely right - you have some big signal killers in your OTA setup! :eek: The coax cable alone is chewing up 6dB.
2009-04-08, 03:18 PM
Steve Smart, you might be one of those rare folks who has to have a more powerful antenna and gear for the Locals than the distant ones! ;)
It might be worthwhile for you to have an antenna pointed at the CN Tower and the other one at Buffalo.There was one glorious DX night, (funnily enough the first day I put it up) where I received strong, strong signals The nightmare of all OTA installers... a disappointed new customer will soon be calling back when the tropo is over! :D
2009-04-08, 03:51 PM
Thanks Mr. 'Peder
I'm still running tests until the weather's warmer, but I'm obviously losing a lot of signal with the long cable run and cut-rate equipment. While I'm at ground level the best overall signal comes from deep in the backyard, but that's precisely the spot where the CN Tower signal is worst. If you point the antenna directly at the Tower, I lose the Buffalo's AND the CBC.
Once I get up on the roof I should get a clear shot with no trees. Actually, I think I've talked my neighbour into letting me put the antenna on top of his shed. I was moving the antenna around the yard last weekend, and both neighbours spotted me and wanted more info. Naturally I pointed them here.:cool:
2009-04-08, 04:07 PM
I've relocated several posts about sharing an OTA antenna to this thread for the benefit of all members:
2009-04-09, 02:10 PM
rschieck: u can get buffalo channels without using a preamp?
i guess i need to move mine around a bit