With all due respect to stampeder, we agree to disagree that an attic install can pick up Buffalo and Toronto stations in Markham/Richmond Hill. Not always, but it certainly works perfectly well for me.As I've said here many, many times before, I'm delighted when DHC members get OTA results that they find satisfactory. Having said that, I also know very well that 2 houses side-by-side can present very different reception profiles, so I hope members will not make a decision on an attic mount without seriously considering the consequences. Attics cost signal strength, period. No debate. No argument. Thus, I say that they are a last resort. Glad yours works satisfactorily for you.

emmu101 - glad to hear you're getting good reception at 9th/16th!

We're moving to 9th/Main (Stouffville) in May and will be roof-mounting a 4228 w/ preamp (no rotor) and hope to get the same results you do. Our biggest obstacle is a line of tall trees, but they will be only slightly higher than our antenna. Based on the diffraction calculators on hdtvprimer.com, I estimate we'll lose about 9dB max (since only a few trees are actually the max height) in signal because of the need to diffract over the trees, but hopefully the fact that I'm using a roof-mounted 4228 w/ preamp will help compensate for that. I may need to even slightly angle the 4228 upwards to increase the gain - though I don't know how difficult that will be. Time will tell - we can't wait to get there and try it out!

Tom

I have a crappy indoor antenna.
With it, I can get 7 HD channel (ATSC)
I just got a CM7777, when I install it I get not new channel

Should I worry about the pre-amp not working or should I just get a better antenna ?

Amplifying an indoor antenna like that is not a good idea, as you found out.

the strength of the 7 channels does not change at all after I plug the 7777, how do I make sure the 7777 is working fine ?
Or should I *just* get a 4228 and not even think about it ?

******
20 CBC HD 84%
24 CBC French HD 84%
40 CTV HD 84%
44 OMNI 2 HD 84%
53 CITY TV HD 84%
64 OMNI 1 HD 84%

I am getting everything from Toronto except 65 (Global HD) and 66 (SUN TV)... is that weird or is that nornal (i.e they come from a different location or they are not as string signal in the GTA ?)

Several recent posts in this thread: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=41073

I just took a set of rabbit ears and hooked that up to a plasma TV in the basement and get CBC HD as well as a bunch of air channels with varying degrees of snow. Tried hooking up the same antenna on the second floor of the house and feeding the signal down through the 22 year old RG59 systems that used to carry the cable signal and has a couple of splitters along the way and most of the signal got lost - only got two very snowy air channels that way! I can't remove the splitters because they're underneath finished walls/ceilings but even without the splitters the cable is old and only RG59, so I don't think that would help much.

So with a stealth antenna mounted outside I expect to get considerably better reception - but it's a big unknown right now. Would diplexers outside and inside cause much signal loss?

TIA

Replying to two different recent questions:

quickcurrent: If you have signal loss due to cable length, splitters, using old RG59, then you need a pre-amp to boost the signal from the antenna so it makes it all the way through the coax to get to the TV tuner.

celek: If you get signal from an antenna (even a "crappy indoor antenne") with a minimum cable run with no splitters, adding a pre-amp will not help. You cannot boost a signal you are not receiving. Thus, upgrade to a proper antenna. I am in Markham with a CM4221 antenna and CM7777 pre-amp in my attic and receive all Buffalo and Toronto. However, I would note that a CM4228 would be my choice if I could actually fit it through the attic hatch!


Good cabling is important, it made a difference in my setup.

I was re-using old RG59 runs left by Rogers throughout the house and recently re-ran using quality RG6 cabling with a minimum of splitters and cable length. The improvement was only noticeable for a few channels, particularly analog copies of the digital ones I already received. I recently noticed that some analog channels, specifically Hamilton, have appeared that went away the last time I re-aimed my antenna to try to pick up WGRZ NBC.

Therefore, I recommend that you spend the effort to _get_ the channels (antenna), then work on how to distribute them (cables and pre-amplifer).

I've just built a GH antenna and leaned it against my bedroom bathroom door next to my Toshiba 37AV502U, with only a run of 17' of rg6 compression conx's directly into the tv.
Pleasantly suprised to see:
CBC HD
CTV HD
OMNI 2 HD
CITY TV HD
OMNI 1 HD and their duplicate analogs.

I think I found roughly 23 stations, with only 1 US broadcaster W???, there was no signal so I deleted it.

I haven't completed the antenna b/c the mrs wanted to sleep but the reception was excellent.

After putting in a paper clip into the back of my TV. to my surprise i was able to get CBC HD really clear.

This has sparked my interest in getting more OTA channels, and Im going to go look for a real antenna and play around with it.

celek,
I agree with dj-jazzy-jeff... Ughh,... I mean Hi-Def-Jam-Dr-Jazzy-Jay... (you can't cut and paste a user-name!)
A pre-amp can only amplify the signal that the antenna supplies it. If you choose a proper outdoor antenna, keep in mind that the 4228 has a narrow beam width (overhead plot) compared to the 4221.

This means that although the gain is less with the 4221, you are less likely to have to get a rotor to change the aim. DHC'ers in Markham have had success with both the 4221 and the 4228 (the older models at least). A decision on what antenna to try should not only be about the raw gain. It also should consider whether or not you want to avoid using a rotor as well. Read through the earlier posts in this thread to get an idea of who has gotten what in Markham.

If I recall correctly, I believe DHC'er Yaamon did an install near 16th and 48 and got excellent results. You might want to PM him to ask what type of house/install (ie bungalow/two story, indoor attic/outdoor) and what type of gear was installed there.

bayardo,
Welcome here! If you haven't done so already, I suggest reading through the OTA Knowledge Base:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=41102

Hi-Def-Jam-Dr-Jazzy-Jay, (I just cut and pasted his user name 99gecko) I was getting a pretty good line up of analog channels upstairs with an old CRT TV compared to what I got in the basement, but don't know how good the reception would be for digital, although judging by the analog reception it looks promising, so I don't know if it would be worthwhile getting a preamp. I'd only get one to try it if I had the option of returning it if it didn't work, but I see they are not that easy to find locally! It certainly would be worth doing this option, if it worked, to avoid having to install an outdoor antenna.

I have satellite reception for all my TVs but wanted to get OTA HD signals into a 50 inch plasma in the basement. It's too large and heavy to haul it upstairs to check the digital reception there.

If you get more than a handful of channels on rabbit ears, you are certainly in a spot where a proper antenna such as CM4221 and a CM7777 pre-amp will get you a good set of digital channels. Many many people in Richmond Hill and Markham get a dozen (or more) HDTV channels OTA with the combo I list above.

I would not spend the $80 dollars for a good pre-amp or distribution amplifier if the antenna was rabbit ears, it would be a waste, we want to get you off of the "man" and on to free TV here don't we?! :-) Anyway, if you can spend $200 on parts and put an antenna in your attic or on an upper floor outside wall of the home facing south, you can have 5-10 channels, if you contact Yaamon and get an antenna on your roof, you will get lots of channels all the time, but it's your call.

Don't quote me: Rabbit ears are meant for VHF frequencies (if I recall correctly, experts such as stampeder can correct me), so they will not pick up UHF frequencies as well. Thus, even if you get the analog VHF channels with the "ears", they would not work as well with the equivalent DTV channels on the UHF band.

Woohoo - received my two 4228's today (the original, not the HD). Location is 16th/48 in Markham. So far, just did a quick plug-in next to the TV on the ground floor at back of house (north side). Basically, the worst spot possible. Was encouraged to see CBC come in strong and a few others with a partial lock. Next step will be the upstairs window facing south - just need to stop by Dollarama first (15' of RG6 for $1).

We won't be moving to our new house (and installing this thing on the roof) until May at the earliest, but I wanted to find one of the originals of the 4228 before they all disappeared. As is, I had to go south to Georgia before I could find these. Since they had 2 left, I just ordered both.

Hi-Def-Jam-Dr-Jazzy-Jay, the indoor antenna I have is powered so it's a bit better than standard rabbit ears. It does pick up CBC HD in the basement, CTV analog air quite clear (I had this channel momentarily in HD as well if I held the antenna in the middle of the room!) and several other analog air channels but less clear. Upstairs (on the second floor) it did pick up pretty well all TO analog air channels (with the CRT TV) all with some degree of snow though. But I think the clarity of each channel is also affected by the receiver in the CRT TV which is about 5-10 years old. Newer receivers do a better job, I believe. The Plasma I have in the basement is a new 50" Samsung that appears to have a decent receiver. I also have a 61" rear projection Sony SD TV in the family room that is nine years old. When it goes it'll be replaced by some large screen HD panel and I want to have the ability to hook that up to whatever signal reception contraption I set up in the near future, be it indoors or out.

It seems that the right indoor antenna upstairs with adequate signal boost (if I can overcome the losses in the RG59 and splitters) may be just as good as an exterior stealth antenna - the stealth would be on my west facing wall and the indoor one would be just 3- 4 feet from a window on the same west facing wall.

Hi-Def-Jam-Dr-Jazzy-Jay (hey! I figured out the username cut 'n paste!)
Don't quote me: Rabbit ears are meant for VHF frequencies (if I recall correctly, experts such as stampeder can correct me), so they will not pick up UHF frequencies as well. Thus, even if you get the analog VHF channels with the "ears", they would not work as well with the equivalent DTV channels on the UHF band.
Sorry but I just had to "quote" you! ;)
Well, I'm not an expert, but you are correct, the traditional rabbit ears are meant for VHF. That being said, many amplified rabbit ears come with an integrated loop antenna which is a simple bidirectional UHF antenna, making the unit a combo. Note that traditional rabbit ears can be used as a 1/2 rhombic antenna if they are pointed in the horizontal plane, but realistically this isn't usually practical in a indoor scenario where they could be obstructing traffic flow in a living room :o.

quickcurrent,
Don't assume that because the indoor antenna you have is powered, that it is better than a non-powered antenna. The amps in many of those rabbit ear types inject a lot of noise, and are likely better off without the amplification. I feel that they are usually added as a marketing gimmick;... If you can receive a signal indoors with the most basic of antennas, you don't need amplification unless it is being split.

Sorry for asking a dumb question.
You guys keep saying e.g. 45% signal or so many bars, what do you use to measure that? -- some kind of meter?
I have a Sony XBR tv, how can I tell what signal strength I am getting on each channel?

Thanks

tsa, see Post #17 in the OTA FAQ for an explanation, and then read through your TV's manual to find out how to display the signal meter.

Way to go on the cut and paste 99gecko.

With reference to the powered indoor antenna, I have one that essentially pulls in nothing until I plug in the power cord. So, whereas some may be just a gimmick, some do work much better with the power. I suppose it depends on the antenna. The one I have is a Phillips-Magnavox Signal Choice Series SCA050F which retails for about $50 if memory serves me right.

Hi-Def-Jam-Dr-Jazzy-Jay, 99Gecko, I confirm what you explained.. (not that you needed to receive confirmation.. It makes me happy to do so :)

picked up my 4221 yesterday, and got 13 channels instead of 5... now I need to figure out how to get this &^%^%^% NBC before Feb 2nd :)
Thanks

not that you needed to receive confirmation.. It makes me happy to do soConfirmation is good! We appreciate that from everyone. :)