d.cypher, here's the picture of my CM4221 in attic:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=636176&postcount=252

I'm getting NBC at full bars now (8-10).
FOX is stable at 4-5 bars,
ABC is strong but fluctuates (mostly 8-10 bars but sometimes down to 6)
I got OMIN1/2 and MyTV (1 bar or less) today

Yaamon, forgot to answer your other question. My friend who picked up CM4221 tried it out over the weekend. He put it up outside window and he got most buffalo stations, especially the WNED (PBS) he bought this antenna for. Then he got all excited and mounted the antenna just 2 feet left to the window, then he lost PBS.

He's wondering if reflections from aluminum siding is affecting reception.

He's wondering if reflections from aluminum siding is affecting reception.Yes, anything metallic can cause multipath interference or other reception problems. Aluminum and copper are particularly bad. He's got to get that antenna away from that siding.

Wondering what the 'real' difference is between the CM7777 and the CM7778 from a laymans point of view. How does the preamp differentiate between strong and weak signals? Does it apply the same amplification to all?

Also, what are the preferred deepest fringe VHF, UHF and combo antennas available in Ontario? Currently have an old Radio Shack POC.

How important is height WRT reception? Will going from 30ft to 40 ft tower help a lot or a little?

Thanks much

The difference between a 7777 and a 7778 is gain and .2db more noise.

The 7777 has a higher gain 26db vs 23db on the uhf side and noise 2.0db vs 2.2db. On the Vhf side 23db vs 16db.

A 7778 preamp offers a great value.

In respect with tower height normally higher is better. There is no need to go an additional 10' unless the view is blocked or obstructed.

I just helped a customer upgrade his preamp to a 7778 and uhf antenna to a 4228. From the antenna on a tower to the power supply the cable length is close to 100’. From there I split the signal with a 3 way splitter and send it to several tv’s. Two tv is another 75-85’ away and they get a feed from a 3 way splitter down the line.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL83/536944/4741575/288407801.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL83/536944/4741575/288407797.jpg

So a 7778 has enough gain to feed vhf & uhf signals 175’ away.

Buying a 7777 over a 7778 all depends on each setup.

Good luck.

what was wrong with that previous yagi antenna?

hsplrguy, you raise a great point about yagis - at some point in the late 1980s/early 1990s some of the antenna manufacturers started setting up yagis to output in 75ohm unbalanced using either integrated baluns or preamps. Not all of them are that way, including product lines from the same company.

In your case, your yagi's output is 300 ohm balanced. so with the CM Spartan preamp it is unecessary to use a balun (matching transformer). When you fasten the leads to the screws on the preamp and dab some roofing tar or silicone on them you've done your part and the preamp sends it downstream in unbalanced 75 ohm.

In yaamon's case the yagi's output was probably already 75ohm unbalanced, like my CM Quantum 1111 VHF yagi is. In those cases the 300ohm capability is moot and everything is 75ohm.

Agreed on the RG59!!! :D

How important is height WRT reception? Will going from 30ft to 40 ft tower help a lot or a little?Height of antenna is based almost exclusively on your specific situation and requirements. As a rule of thumb height is always better, so I continue to use the old fighter pilots' saying "Altitude = Options". A lot of good that would do if adding 4 feet of height put your antenna squarely behind a billboard, so I can only ask you to keep posting here about your specific situation. :)

Yaamon thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to determine my best approach at updating my old tower setup. Don't want to spend money unnecessarily but really need to do something.

I had already picked up a 10ft section of tower for next to nothing so will have it added to the existing 30ft. I am situated in the shadow of a hill so I think higher will be better. The hill is directly in my line of sight to Toronto and is about 1km south of me and 130ft higher in elevation.

At the very least I want to improve my analog reception and with any luck at all be able to pull in some HD signals down the road in a year or so. Do you think that will be possible? I am 65km north of the CN tower and about 140km from Grand Island Buffalo.

Looking for recommendations on antenna and rotor. Will go with the 7778 preamp because of my close proximity to the tower in Barrie and will replace the RG59 with RG6. Should I go with a combo VHF/UHF or separate units? Local guy suggested the CM4242. Will the CM 9521A rotor handle the large deep fringe antennas or should I be looking at one of the ham type rotors?

Sorry for so many questions but I'm really out of my realm here. Hoping for some good advise from real world experience as opposed to sales propoganda.

OTAbound, you are welcome I understand I dont like to spend extra $$ if I dont have to..

In your setup I would go with the extra height since you mention you are in the shadow of a hill.

If you want the best uhf setup at a reasonable price buy a 4228. As you can see in my previous post a customer upgraded his Yagi style Uhf antenna with excellent results. Signal to noise ratio(signal strength with a new preamp and antenna jumped a good 6 to 8db over a yagi style).

The 4242 style could not cut it, is only rated from Channel Master at 45mile why, would you even consider this when the 4228 rated for 60 miles.

Receiving ota hd reception off the cn tower with a 4228 would be no problem at all and with a rotor you should be able to get a few from Buffalo area. The cn tower height is excellent and will clear the hill towards you.

I would recommend in your setup new RG6 cable, a preamp 7777 or 7778, and a 4228.

Good luck.

Hi everybody,

I've recently moved into a place near Kleinburg (Islington/Major Mack) which has a fairly sizeable outdoor antenna (the type that looks like an arrow on top). I currently receive a number of analog OTA signals (ABC, A-channel, NBC, CBS, CBC, CBC-FR, CTV, E!, Global, Omni1, TVO, CW, Fox29, City, PBS), some which are crystal clear, others not so great. I don't own a HDTV, but I'm wondering if it would be worth my while anyways to get a STB anyways to improve my picture quality and possibly receive a couple more channels.

I know that a STB itself obviously doesn't improve reception, but my logic is that (as I understand it) digital channels are an all or nothing deal, so the number of channels that I currently receive fairly well but with a small amount of fuzz, I thought might be crystal clear if I could receive the digital signal. In addition I understand that I can receive the HDTV broadcasts but that I of course will be viewing them at regular DTV resolution on my non-HD television.

So to summarize, at this point is it worth the $120 or so to get a ATSC STB or would I be no better off than what I'm getting currently over analog?

Thanks for any input!

So to summarize, at this point is it worth the $120 or so to get a ATSC STB or would I be no better off than what I'm getting currently over analog?

It would be a huge difference. You can get a STB for off ebay for less than 50.

Or if you have bell, their 6100 with built in HD OTA tuner is 119 at BB.

If you alrady have a good UHF antenna, you're set. Global isn't digital yet, maybe next year, Omnis have been on but are holding out. TVO, the year after.
Lake effect can make buffalo stations come and go.

The better the antenna, better reception. Higher is always better.
newer ATSC tuners, within about the last year, are better than the old ones.
thats why people sell the old ones on e-bay.

I'm moving in February to another home very close to my current location in Markham, about 20 miles from the CN tower. I intend to go OTA and install a decent roof-mounted antenna and amplifier when I move in.

Last night I installed a tuner in my HTPC and followed the instructions I found at The Green Button for getting MCE 2005 to recognize the card, download the EPG and have it operate in Canada. Everything appears to be good there. I manually added two digital stations - CBC and CFTO. I then connected a pair of old rabbit ears that can be switched between UHF and VHF.

I honestly don't expect to be able to pull in any stations with my current equipment but I would have thought I'd get a very low signal. I tried CFTO and CBC in both MCE and WatchHDTV. MCE doesn't receive a signal and WatchHDTV reports 0% signal strength. Should I get a signal based on my equipment and distance?

Thanks.

Hi everybody,

So to summarize, at this point is it worth the $120 or so to get a ATSC STB or would I be no better off than what I'm getting currently over analog?

Thanks for any input!

Yes - It is worth the money - It sounds like you have a Yagi style antenna and it seems to be working so - Go for it!

McGuillicuddy, it depends on the quality of analog reception you are already enjoying.

What I realized, during installation and testing of UHF antenna to receive HDTV channels, is that if I were to receive the same channels from analog stations only, all would be worthless.

I was astonished by the fact that when I could only get, at best, terribly snowy pictures with analog (NTSC) tuner (buffalo stations mostly), I was able to get high defition crystal clear pictures with ATSC tuner.

This made me believe that ATSC tuners aren't just for HDTVs. It's still worthy consideration for old analog TV owners.

Trying to decide whether to get a Channel Master 4221 or 4228 antenna. I live in the Maple area of the GTA and want to be able to pick up Toronto and Buffalo stations.

Is the 4221 'good enough' or will the 4228 really make a difference? If there is anyone in the Maple / Vaughan area, I'm curious what worked best for you.

Thanks.

the difference is:
4221 - most of the channels some of the time, or
4228 - all of the channels most of the time.
did you look at the antenna chart?

Attic install with a CM4221 pointed 165 south/east & a 10b plug in amplifier, 75 ft of RG6 into my new 42'PZ77
my line up:

2.1 64%
2.2 64%
4.1 87%
5.1 100%
7.1 89%
7.2 89%
7.3 89%
9.1 94%
23.1 100%
23.5 100%
29.1 92%
29.2 92%
43.1 80%
43.2 80%
43.3 80%
49.1 54%
49.2 54%
57.1 92%
66.3 75%

Yaamon IS THE MAN:cool:

RedPainter,

You must live close to me - I'm at White's Hill Ave. and Country Glen.

I picked up a 4221 from Yaamon yesterday. Very nice guy and extremely knowledgeable - definitely recommended.

Inside, pointing south out of the bedroom window, I'm picking up 7-8 channels on my HTPC with just the 4221. CityTV was OK in the afternoon but kept coming in and out in the evening.