: ON - Vaughan/Richmond Hill/Markham/North of 407 - OTA
2007-10-26, 12:36 AM
Just picked up CM4221 from Yaamon the other day and installed it in Attic today, using J arm for sat dish (too large for CM4221, used some electrical tape to make CM4221 fit better), aimed at around 160deg.
I still need to run wires down to the basement and up onto family room. Hopefully 50' wire is enough for this. Sadly the center line conduit I paid for isn't seem to be there. Builders simply take your money and run away. So this means wire running can be a bit of problem.
Anyway, I was anxious to test what I could get from CM4221 in attic. I ran 25' cable to my Samsung H260F tuner (picked up from ebay for $95 /w local pick up and taxes) and I'm getting these
2.1 WGRZ 1080i (6/10)
2.2 WGRZ 480i
4.1 WIVB 1080i (7/10)
5.1 CBLT 1080i (10/10)
7.1 WKBW 720p (6/10)
7.2 WNGS 480i (7/10)
9.1 CFTO 1080i (8/10)
23.1 WNLO 1080i (8/10)
25.1 CBLFT 1080i (10/10)
26.1 WNYB 480i (2/10)
29.1 WUTV 720p (4/10)
29.2 WUTV 480i
43.1 WNED 720p (4/10)
57.1 CITYTV 1080i (8/10)
64.1 OMNI1 1080i (10/10)
66.3 SUNTV 1080i (10/10)
That's a total of 11 HD channels and all are watchable (no issues with pictures during testing). Although WNED appears a little weaker than expected according to signal meter I am very impressed that I'm getting all ABC/CBS/NBC/PBS channels from Buffalo area. This is all without pre-amp. I hope this results can be repeated when I wire it up properly to my family room.
I was getting merely some 7 channels when CM4221 was sitting in my second floor bedroom. Some 9 feet difference in height appears to make a big difference probably due to a better line of sight (there's a house of almost the same height blocking 170-160 deg line.
2007-10-26, 12:57 AM
I'm going to try an attic installation and am polling for hints from anyone who has done them.
Sunjwd, have you done your attic install yet? Looks like you're in my area, I live down on Leameadow Rd.
2007-10-26, 11:14 AM
Finally got my 4221 set up, had Yaamon come in do to a professional chimney install. I'm located close to Bayview/407. I have a clear line of sight to the CN tower, but a big condo building between my house and Buffalo. Here are my results using the tuner in my Acer AT3705 and a 10db booster:
FOX-HD and SD
MYTV-HD and SD
PBS-HD and SD
Mark told me that the signals were strong enough for me to pull in NBC-HD, but unfortunately the tuner in the Acer isn't the greatest. I did recently get a Samsung LCD TV a few days ago. Haven't had a chance to test it out too much, but from an initial scan I pulled in NBC-HD and SRC (French CBC) but didn't get MYTV-HD. Seems weird to me that the Acer would get MYTV but not the Samsung, but I'll do some more testing and report back.
2007-10-27, 01:07 AM
Try to locate the pipe at the basement (gray/white colour), then it should be straight up to your attic. I had the same issue to locate the conduit after two trips to the attic untill I did that. The pipe should be 2 inch below the insulation...
50 ft cable should be able to reach the tv from basement up
I swapped my Channel Master 4221 with a Channel Master 4228 this afternoon and here are my new results:
2.1 - NBC - 6 bars
4.1 - CBS - 3 bars
5.1 - CBC - 7 bars
7.1 - ABC - 6 bars
9.1 - CTV - 6 bars
23.1 - CW - 6 bars
25.1 - CBC-F - 6 bars
29.1 - FOX - 6 bars
43.1 - WNED-HD - 7 bars
44.1 - OMNI2 - 7 bars
49.1 - WNYO-HD - MyTV - 3 bars
57.1 - CityTV - 5 bars
64.1 - OMNI1 - 7 bars
66.3 - SunTV - 6 bars
This is the first time I've seen OMNI 1 and OMNI 2 - did they just start broadcasting? CBS is still pretty low but at least it's better than what I had before (between 0 and 1 bar). I'm no longer getting 26.1 :(
It started raining while I was on the roof so I didn't get a lot of time to tweak the direction of the antenna.
2007-10-27, 03:42 PM
Yep, we can rule out OMNIs as a difference - they just came up:
In most cases you should have experienced about a 3dB increase in gain with the CM4228, so this would seem to confirm that. :) Re-peaking the aim might get you better numbers too, although I'm puzzled as to why 26.1 disappeared.
2007-10-27, 04:13 PM
Actually, my builder was surprisingly responsive to my inquiry and sent an electrician today (Saturday). We searched everywhere in basement and did not find conduit. We ended up going up in attic and start looking for it and he found it! The problem is that the pipe was blocked by drywall ceiling in basement stairs. Electrician will fix it with proper materials on monday but I can run wires already. This saves much of headache big time, and I'm so glad I have not opened up any walls yet.
Anyway, total cable run currently is almost 100' since the conduit isn't located in ideal place. I get everything I was getting except 26.1 which had only 2 bars with 25' cable.
Also I found CM4221 not so directional. The signal strength did not vary much from 120 to 180 deg. I'm quite happy with the results so far.
Now I will have to make a dedicated wall outlet for this. It shouldn't be too difficult.
2007-10-27, 04:16 PM
100 feet of coax is going to have a lot of line loss, so you'll need to go with a preamp while you're up there.
2007-10-27, 09:23 PM
dfex, glad the 4228 improved reception a bit.
Your results have me thinking from your location you should be pulling in much stronger signals. Example Cbc should be 10 bars easily even with a 4221, Omni atleast 9.
I forgot how long is your cable run and did you split the signal ?
A 4221 in the Markham area with a clear view towards Buffalo pulls is almost all stations on a Samsung 8 to 10 bard with all locals at 9 to 10.
Yaamon - here's my setup:
- CM 4228 installed on roof - clear view to the CN Tower.
- about 60 FT RG6 cable to my basement (grounded)
- RCA 10db gain in-line amp
- 50 FT RG6 cable from the basement to my Samsung TV (LNS4696D)
If it didn't start raining, I would have stayed on the roof to re-peak the antenna. Instead all I was able to do was guess the direction of the CN Tower (couldn't see because of the clouds). When I came down to check the signal, NBC and Fox were equal strength so I assumed I had done it right.
If the weather is better in the next few weekends, I'll try to get back up there and re-peak again. So far CBS has not cut out on me (jumps between 2 - 4 bars), but it does pixelate for a second once in awhile.
2007-10-28, 10:56 AM
dfex, what you did was correct to tune from your location between Nbc and Fox.
It's just that your local signal strength should be higher. Hard to say without seeing it. I think a preamp will work better in your setup, if CBS continue to drop out maybe you can consider one.
I tried using a CM 7777 pre-amp with the CM 4221 but it ended up making things worse. Would you recommend I try a CM 7775 or something else?
2007-10-28, 04:32 PM
If you already have a CM7777 all you need to do is pick up a few attenuators in the 3 to 6 dB range to throttle down its signal levels near the TV. If you've returned it already, go with the CM7775 but it is always good to have an attenuator or two handy as needed. Note that you'd also probably need to ditch the RCA signal amp too.
I returned the CM 7777. I'll try to get my hands on a CM 7775 and post the results later.
2007-10-28, 05:54 PM
Yes, in fact with 100' of cable ( 4 different cables in series, connected via female to female adapters) I use about 2 bars from all buffalo stations now. Fox is down to 1 or 2 bars with intermittent glitches. WNED is still solid although at 3-4 bars. Still watchable but not as satisfactory as it was with single 25' cable during initial testing. Rotating CM4221 doesn't seem to make much difference. Would a preamp help with this situation? I am planning to use splitters in the future as well, for my PC near TV to use it as PVR station.
Unlike others, I get Fox at consistently lower level than NBC.
How do you *peak* the antenna? Do you use a special equipment?
2007-10-28, 08:04 PM
conix, yes a preamp will help big time in your setup. ;)
2007-11-03, 04:48 PM
This is weird. I picked up CM7775 and installed it today. No matter what I do, the results were a lot worse than without it. I simply lose most of weak Buffalo stations with the pre-amp installed. It doesn't seem to be overloading my receiver since all strong ones come up fine.
I've heard of others with similar results but I did not expect it to be this bad. The pre-amp effectively cuts down 2-3 bars from signal strength meter.
Initially I tried the recommended setup (amplifier near the antenna, power supply near TV), and confirmed all connections are correct before powering it up. Then I also tried pre-amp in the middle (since it was easier to deal with than inside attic), with lines to power supply module minimized.
Although not as good as without it, results are better when I go through the amplifier without powersupply in line.
Could this be some sort of defect in the unit I purchased?
2007-11-03, 06:13 PM
conix, its hard to say if the preamp is bad. Normally you get no signal if the power supply is not connected to power.
May I ask why you had to use 4 piece of coax cable? I would prefer one cable run of if you have to have multiple joints you have to make sure the cable is striped and the connector is installed properly.
I know you said that the connectors are fine but a bad connector can cuase lots of signal strength and reception problems.
Trust me I know first hand the problems when a customer does the wiring and installed the connectors themself.
Read here what as I suspected and orginally suggested a bad connecotor and what it can do.
2007-11-03, 09:52 PM
sorry my amplifier is CM7778 if that matters at all.
Anyway, Yaamon the reason I have many joints is simple, because I did not have a long enough cable to run all the way. The original estimate became incorrect due to the location of conduit (bad), and that is the reason the total length of cables became over 100'.
If I'm convinced enough then I could purchase longer wire to reduce the one or two joints. One joint is not avoidable since it is the wall jack. so I have 3 cables running to the antenna. If my plans for pre-amp works, I will have to break the wire in the basement for splitting so the most I can reduce is one joint anyway.
I've spent considerable amount of time experimenting with and without amplifier attached.
Just the amplifier in series without power unit performs better than the power unit installed and power applied.
I understand your first concern is quality of connection but as it stands now, I have relatively good results with current set of wires (3 joints, 4 cables total from antenna to receiver). Just adding the pre-amp makes things much worse. The only added components are the amplifier and power units.
I wonder if you could test my CM7778 for any obvious faults in amp itself.:D
2007-11-03, 10:32 PM
conix, yes I can test it in my office with a antenna.
Give me a shout next week.