tommy gun,
There are threads in the main OTA forum that tell you how to use Google Earth and other websites to determine your best aim.
Your elevation should be zero, ( or possibly even -1 or -2 for very distant stations that are well beyond the horizon).
As dsspredator implied however, aiming an antenna is not like aiming a sat dish. You won't find the perfect settings in a manual or book; local reception varies considerably. You just have to go out and tweak it manually

tommy gunn the square shooter should perform much better outdoors than the terk you have indoors.

Where you are located in Stouffville has great elevation. I would try and mount the square shooter high like on your chimney and first point it towards Buffalo.

Once you have it mounted properly swing the antenna slowly back and forth for max signal between Nbc and Fox.

Then you can try the elevation and see on the signal strength on screen if your signal increases or not.

Good luck.

bubbaganoush - I am in Markham as well. My friend brought me a Samsung DTB-H260F from the states last week. First I used the Philips Silver Sensor indoor antenna I got from ebay, pointed to the south inside my house (tried both 1st and 2nd floor) and got CBC (5-1), CTV (9-1) and CITY (57-1). Want to get more channels, I decided to build one of those DIY DB4 antenna today and you know what? On the 2nd floor right by the window I got 11 channels....

2-1 WGRZ-DT
2-2 WGRZ-SD
5-1 CBLT-DT
7-1 WKBW-HD
7-2 WNGS-SD
9-1 CFTO-HD
23-1 WNLO
25-1 CBFT-D
29-1 WUTV-HD
29-2 WUTV-SD
57-1 CITY-HD

I don't know if I should go out and buy one. Will I get more channels?

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide whether to purchase an OTA antenna. I live at the SE corner of Bayview/Willowbrook in Thornhill. I have a clear line of sight to the CN tower, but I have the big condos on Green Lane between me and the Buffalo stations. Do you think the condo buildings will not allow me to pick up anything from Buffalo at all?

r2traps,
You posted about this last year. Sorry you haven't figured it out yet. Without more info it is hard to say.

1) Try this:
Post a screen shot from Google Earth of your situation. Use the [Measure] tool to draw a line from your expected antenna placement to the Grand Island towers. If you can see them, you can see South Buffalo (WGRZ, WKBW, WIVB) from your area. IF you are not sure how to do this:
Zoom google earth in on the area where the line goes by/through the condos, we don't need to actually see your house (in fact I don't recommend it). While GE is the active window, press [CTRL]+[Print Scrn]. This takes a screen shot of the active window. Paste into an image file and save as .jpg . If you don't have an free photo hosting account get one (ie photobucket, etc.) - takes 2 minutes to set up. Post the image back here.

Or
2)Build a clone. See the OTA Build-It-Yourself Antennas & Gear (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=25677) thread on how to do this for less than $10 and then test your signal strength. A commercially available antenna will likely give you an increase in reception.

bubbaganoush - I am in Markham as well. My friend brought me a Samsung DTB-H260F from the states last week. First I used the Philips Silver Sensor indoor antenna I got from ebay, pointed to the south inside my house (tried both 1st and 2nd floor) and got CBC (5-1), CTV (9-1) and CITY (57-1). Want to get more channels, I decided to build one of those DIY DB4 antenna today and you know what? On the 2nd floor right by the window I got 11 channels....

I think that's pretty good actually.

What are the signal levels like? Is it constant or does it drop out a lot?

r2traps has asked me to post an image of his line of sight problem. The white line is indicating Line-Of-Sight to Buffalo.
I'm trying to decide whether to purchase an OTA antenna. I live at the SE corner of Bayview/Willowbrook in Thornhill. I have a clear line of sight to the CN tower, but I have the big condos on Green Lane between me and the Buffalo stations. Do you think the condo buildings will not allow me to pick up anything from Buffalo at all?

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/99gecko/condoline.jpg

I'm not sure of what your chances are. Those condos are smack in the middle of your azimuth. If you angled an antenna up, to the top of the condos you might have a chance at diffracted (knife-edge) signals. I remember reading a post (I think, but I couldn't find it), that suggested a rule of thumb was a max angle of 30 degrees in the shadow.
http://www.atis.org/tg2k/images/knife_ac.gif
But that does nothing for you since your antenna angle would then be wrong for Toronto. IF the antenna was left on an upward angle I believe your Toronto reception would suffer from phase shift.

My suggestion is to build a DIY clone put it up on a broom handle on the roof as a test and see what you get. Then decide from there. This is what I am currently doing for my in-laws. Alternatively, get a pro to do a site evaluation, but that won't be free...

r2traps, those condos how far are they to where you are located. If they are close by thats not good at all.

If they are a few miles away you might be able to get some reception.

Generally speaking signal is constantly between 60-80%.

I am planning to put it in the attic later on and see if the reception will get better or not. I will report when done.

Thanks for posting the pic gecko! Thanks for your advice, I think it's worth a try. I also have a silver sensor, so I may start out trying that on the roof just to see.

Yaamon, unfotunately it's only a 1 km between me and the condos, so it's fairly close.

r2traps has asked me to post an image of his line of sight problem. The white line is indicating Line-Of-Sight to Buffalo.



Are you aiming towards Grand Island? The transmitters south of Buffalo? A small change in angle might make these buildings a non-issue.

Also are the buildings at a higher or lower elevation than r2traps according to Google Earth? If they are lower, it again may not be a problem.

Good luck.

Yes, aiming towards Grand Island. My elevation is 178m with the 3 condos at 171, 168 and 173m.

So I just did a test with the Silver Sensor hanging outside of my west side bedroom window facing the CN tower and got CBC, CITY-TV, CTV and SUNTV. They all came through clearly with good sound.

Then I brought it around to the bedroom on the east side of my house and pointed to the Grand Islands and found 9 channels, but got no sound and weak signal on some channels:

4-1 WIVB-HD
7-1 WKBW-HD
7-2 WNGS-SD
9-1 CFTO-HD
23-1 WNLO-HD
43-2 WNED-HD
43-3 (No name)
43-4 THINK BRIGHT
66-1 CKXT-DT

With those results in mind, what do you guys think my chances are with a 4221 or 4228?

what do you guys think my chances are with a 4221 or 4228?I would say they are very good! :) Let us know how your upgrade goes.

r2traps,
Is that correct? You got CKXT-DT from the East side of your house with a silver sensor ?!?! That is actually one of the most difficult Toronto channels to get.

Well that's good to know :) When I was looking out of my windows the condos didn't seem too much more higher than my roof, so the fact that I'm on a higher elevation definitely helps.

Hmm, so when I do get my system up and running, which way would I point the antenna, towards the CN Tower or towards Grand Island? Is there a way to control the direction of the antenna without going up on the roof everytime? Or cimply point the antenna somewhere in between?

I'll probably buy a 4221 or 4228, but would love to do the install myself. That being said, I'm also considering getting a pro to do the install. Decisions, decisions!

which way would I point the antenna, towards the CN Tower or towards Grand Island?
More than likely to G.I. or evenly slightly to the east of G.I. if your FOX and Toronto signals don't drop out. that will allow you to max the south Buffalo transmitters.
Is there a way to control the direction of the antenna without going up on the roof everytime?
A rotor. But you most probably do not need one from your location if you go with the 4221.
I go up on the roof everytime. But now I don't have to come down once I'm up there - I figured out how to use my digital video recorder as web cam plugged into my PC, set that up to watch the tv (to see the signal strength meter) and took my laptop up on the roof (eek!) to watch it - still have to get my wife to sit in the basement and change channels via cell phone etc. as the remote is IR not UHF. Others have taken a small tv up on the roof with them or placed one on the ground where they could see it and used binoculars. I'm sure there are 100's of solutions.
Or cimply point the antenna somewhere in between?
Trial and error
would love to do the install myself. That being said, I'm also considering getting a pro to do the install.
See the OTA Equipment & Vendors forum (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=130). It has all your answers on how to do it or find a pro - there's one very near your home.

I go up on the roof everytime. But now I don't have to come down once I'm up there - I figured out how to use my digital video recorder as web cam plugged into my PC, set that up to watch the tv (to see the signal strength meter) and took my laptop up on the roof (eek!) to watch it - still have to get my wife to sit in the basement and change channels via cell phone etc. as the remote is IR not UHF.

This makes me wonder:

Do you use a pulley system to get your wife to send up drinks and snacks?
I assume you have a lawn chair permanently bolted to the roof, otherwise if you get too animated when the home team scores during the big game you are liable to fall off the roof.
I hope you have an umbrella up there; otherwise you are likely to turn into a real fair weather fan.
This could also explain why your eaves troughs are turning yellow.


Sorry I couldn’t resist. ;)

First I'll deal with roger1818...

Do you use a pulley system to get your wife to send up drinks and snacks?

No, I have a BBQ and cooler mounted to the peak. She uses the pulley system to send up the business end of a garden hose and a scrub brush (see below).

I assume you have a lawn chair permanently bolted to the roof, otherwise if you get too animated when the home team scores during the big game you are liable to fall off the roof.

I have a permanent parking space assignment, and am the founding (and sole) member of the Frequent Fracture Club at the Markham/Stoufville Hospital Emergency Clinic.

I hope you have an umbrella up there; otherwise you are likely to turn into a real fair weather fan.

Uhmmm, yup just what I need. Something to divert the lightning away from my antenna.....

This could also explain why your eaves troughs are turning yellow.

This is what the previously mentioned pulley system prevents.

Now that we've had our little fun, back to business. ;)

r2traps,
Given your situation, you might have to test the different areas of your roof to determine the sweet spot - see stampeder's post about this here:
Cheap and simple OTA signal testing (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=222669&postcount=28).
A laptop with USB 2.0 and a USB ATSC tuner would be perfect for this situation.
Unfortunately my laptop is USB 1.1

99gecko...

still have to get my wife to sit in the basement and change channels via cell phone etc.

Buy a cheap set of FRS radios. ;)