2010-05-08, 05:20 PM
What do you mean, you "turned off VHF"? Do you mean that you set the amp to "separate" inputs rather than combined?
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2010-05-08, 05:20 PM
What do you mean, you "turned off VHF"? Do you mean that you set the amp to "separate" inputs rather than combined?
2010-05-08, 05:37 PM
Yeah, my bad, that's what I meant.
I assume it doesn't trap VHF, just doesn't amplify VHF? Because I might just be overloading CBLT, which is a whopping 62 dB NM.
This is some of the garbage I have been getting on TVO, just to better illustrate what I mean. I think this goes far beyond a simple ghosting problem. This can probably shed some light on some of the whacky behaviour of some of the Toronto digitals (as well as how weak some of the more stable ones are)...
CITS anlog 36 is kinda like this, but not nearly as bad. The other analog UHFs are badly ghosted, but nothing like this.
2010-05-09, 11:29 PM
Little as long as your analogs look like that you will never have perfect reception of the Toronto and Hamilton digitals.My advise is mount 1 of the 4 bays antennas at Toronto and use an A/b switch.Combining will not as work well .
2010-05-10, 01:26 AM
He's running the antenna into a CM7777. He has the antenna connected into UHF input and the CM7777 is now set to separate which means VHF is being blocked from the UHF input. If he puts a second antenna into the VHF input, he would have pristine VHF reception.
He should now build a simple Stealth Hawk, mount it at the tip of the mast and then stick the lead into the separate VHF input. Then add one 4221HD for Buffalo and one 4221HD lower on the mast for Toronto and combine the ganged 4221s into the separate UHF input.
That should cover everything UHF digital and he would be set to go for the post transition of CTV9 and CHCH11.
2010-05-10, 02:24 AM
As much as I love your stealth hawk idea, I would assume CFTO 9 and CHCH 11 would be strong enough to get with a simple 4221HD in my area, despite the lower ERPs? I thought the 4221HDs have SOME VHF-hi characteristics.
It's a 7778 now actually, I swapped the 7777. WAY too much amplification. The 7777 worked fine with the weaker clone, but certainly copes poorly when I drive it with the stronger signals from my Channel Master.
I think even the 7778 is a little too much, but putting it a little downstream it works fine though I fear line noise may be to blame for WGRZ still being finnicky. I either get a good strong lock when temps are above 8-10, or no lock below that. All other Buffalos boom no matter what, and right now that`s not my concern.
It's been extremely cool, windy, and rainy so I'm gonna hold off putting the 2nd 4221HD until it warms up. Gonna try the combiner before the A-B switch. I don't need perfect reception of Toronto, just so long as it locks. Right now all of them lock no problem from the side lobes (not very strong signals though), with aforementioned random dropout issues with CJMT, and CITS. CFTO's erratic behaviour has ceased for the past week.
How about trapping 5, 9, and 11?
2010-05-10, 08:10 PM
In mississauga here in my location, I am getting Fox 29
RF14 flawlessly with no dropouts and love that channel,
Also I receive Hamilton Very well here too with the antenna
pointed at Buffalo. When Sun TV goes to channel 15 at
around 460KW and increases height, is this going to impact
Fox 29's reception? I don't see the point since Sun TV is
already broadcasting here in Toronto.
I used to get FOX29 quite well but now it's much harder and usually drop outs out whenever I do get it. Just curious about your setup and what height is your antenna at.
2010-05-10, 11:04 PM
Little if you combine that mess from antenna at buffalo with another antenna at Toronto the stronger signals will work but you may have problems with the weak ones like CITY and ION.
2010-05-13, 09:17 PM
I found an improperly crimped cable in the basement. Looks okay, but the conenctor is kinda wobbly. This a bad thing, or can I live with it? I don't know how to fix this. It's the cable connecting to the UHF IN of my preamp. I figure if the copper center is making contact with the hole, then all would be well.
So over the last week, I have been taking readings from my TV's signal meter to get a better, more accurate idea of reception. In my past reports, I usually rounded the values based on single-readings. This week has provided a good cross-sample of various weather conditions to assist my tests, including heavy storm/fog last week. So I got the best and worst. I took the readings 3 times a day, once in late-morning/early afternoon, once around the evening, and once more at night when supposedly signals go farther. In my report, I have listed the lowest reading from that station, then the highest, with the most common value in brackets (usually when things are normal). I broke them down into descriptive categories.
I need 40% to lock, but 45% for safety.
Excellent: I am recieving these stations very well, with no dropouts. These are my strongest stations and weather barely affects the strength values.
WKBW 76-85 (77)
WNYO 72-84 (74)
WIVB 67-82 (72)
WUTV 66-74 (71)
CBLFT 65-76 (70)
WNLO 64-72 (68)
WNED 63-75 (67)
Very Good: Again, I am recieving very well, with no dropouts. However they are more succeptible to fluctuating environmental conditions such as weather.
WNYB 55-73 (64 when stable)
CFMT 61-70 (62 when stable)
Average: I am recieving these stations no problem, but they are quite weak. However since most of these stations come out of Toronto or Hamilton, they are not affected much by weather, thus I manage to maintain a constant lock with no dropouts. This does not surprise me as they are coming on the side lobes.
CBLT 58-64 (60)
CITY 55-58 (58)
CHCH 54-59 (55)
CKXT 52-60 (55)
CIII 45-55 (53)
Weak: These stations are weak, sometimes succeptible to dropuouts and are heavily dependent on weather conditions.
CFTO 45-58 (51)
WGRZ 43-60 (40 bad weather, 55 good)
Anomalies: These stations do not fit in any category, they are severely fluctuating under unknown circumstances, causing random drop-outs (hard-drops), and general unstable behaviour. Weather plays a big factor and makes things worse. I presume these are due to kinks rather than the antenna (except for WPXJ).
CJMT 18-55 (around 45 when stable)
WPXJ 14-58 (around 17-20 under normal conditions, propogation/tropo brings it to around 60)
CITS 7-48 (around 50 when stable)
In conclusion, the 4221HD has preformed overall slightly better than the clone on some frequencies, slightly worse on others. Some huge gains on some channels. Sadly it has not helped WGRZ, which was my primary motivation to switching (although the percentage of time I lose it has significantly dropped). It's a win/loss situation for me, slightly leaning towards the plus though. OTA is a tricky beast in my location, with towers 90-180 degrees apart, it can be a very messy situation.
2010-05-14, 12:31 AM
That wobbly sheild connection could definately be giving you some grief. The core wire connection is essentially only delivering half of the antenna. Furthermore, if it is the cable that is delivering power to your preamp, it could be a fault of intemittant or insufficient voltage getting up to the preamp. So, if the threaded shield connector is weak or intermittant, it certainly would be a problem.
Do you get WGRZ if you aim the antenna directly at WGRZ ? I sounds like your still trying to balance that antenna aim somewhere randomly in between Toronto and Buffalo. If WGRZ is your weakest Buffalo channel, then you'd have to aim the antenna directly at WGRZ's compass setting and hopefully the other Buffalo stations will still fall within the antenna's beamwidth.
The same would apply to your weaker signals from Toronto. If your depending on reception through the back door of the antenna, it will be only receiving nominal reception strengths that will be prone to weather related dropouts.
All antennas are better than others at certain frequencies and can also be worse than others on certain frequencies. WGRZ is broadcasting on 33RF, so your antenna design should be one that peaks within that part of the frequency range.
2010-05-14, 01:01 AM
I'm actually starting to agree with you on the cable ota_canuck! Perhaps the garbage TVO (and weak Toronto) can be attributed to impedance mismatching?
I'm aimed at WNYO (i think). Actually in my location, the distance between WGRZ and WNYO is only 5 degrees, I don't think it will helm much. I don't think I can even aim that carefully, big pole and suspended 30 feet in the air :/
Nevertheless I'm aimed in the general direction of South Buffalo, all are within 10 degs, Grand Island falls in easily (slightly weaker). I have never changed where my antenna is aimed, because from my experience, aiming straight at Buffalo is my only chance of pulling Toronto and Hamilton simultaneously from the side lobes.
According to this (http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/4bay/kosmic?p=0&n=1&m=-1&c=4&l=0&w=1&s=0&z=4), my clone is similar to the pink line, and perhaps the crappy gain on 33 was to blame. The 4221HD should more than overcome that, and I'm disappointed it hasn't. All the other South BUFs are fine, even WNYO (which alot say can be more troublesome than WGRZ). I could attribute this to the higher gain at RF49, but WNYB (even lower gain, off-aim, also 1edge, and lower RF frequency) comes in fine.
I'll elaborate on the cable issue in the cabling thread.
2010-05-14, 01:16 AM
I think you would have a better chance of getting WGRZ if you went with a heavy hitter- DB-8 or 91XG- not only do they have higher gain than most other antennas- the beam width is narrower than 4-bays, which helps in reducing interference from other channels.
And according to your TVFool report, 33 is behind several other channels- I think the laser beam of the 91XG would provide the best chance.
2010-05-14, 02:35 AM
Maybe a stack will be in order. I don't know. First I gotta see if that wobbly connector is a major issue. If that doesn't work, I'm deciding between.
1. Original intention of stacking.
2. ota_canuck's suggestion of combining 2 in different directions through reverse splitter.
3. rob's suggestion of combining using A-B switch (seems more logical than #2, but I'd rather not have additional remotes)
The second 4221HD is currently gathering dust :P
In terms of hacks, both have their baluns flipped with caps removed. No reflector cuts.
I think the XG91 or DB8 would be far too directional for Toronto/Hamilton, not to mention my tower probably won't handle such heavy loads in the current setup. I'm not deep fringe. Been reluctant to try option 1 because analog TVO is garbage ATM. Don't know if stacking would help with beam width so much as to solve my pains with TVO. It might be what the doctor ordered for WGRZ though, as it's sitting just on the fringe of locking when the signal is at it's lowest. New antennas out of the question, we're broke.
Just waiting on the warm weather to come!
2010-05-15, 04:30 PM
If I want to receive signals from both Buffalo and Toronto - the more the better, I guess :p , which antenna works best?
CM4221/4221HD/4228/4228HD? Are there any alternatives?
Would like to pick up the pieces 1 at a time to save money (Life is tough now!). What other things do I need? Preamp? What's a rotor for (for rotating betw. Buffalo and Toronto signals, require in my case)?
Any inputs will be appreciated! Thanks.
2010-05-15, 08:21 PM
I'd try a stacked 4221HD setup aimed right at Buffalo. Toronto and Hamilton should be much easier to pull in from the side of your antenna since the signals are so strong. You're quite a way's north from me so even one 4221HD might suffice (Toronto and Hamilton are a little closer together the further north you go).
Right here down by the lake it's hell to pull in all 3, they're around 170 degrees apart :O
A TVFool report would be nice so we can see just how far apart the stations are. I assume you want the two stations out of Hamilton as well?
So yeah try one CM4221HD (with hacks), and if that doesn't work, just stack another. Lots of people here do that. An 8-bay would be sort of overkill.
2010-05-16, 09:49 AM
I have 4 bay antenna & Antra AT-PAU16 UHF Pre-amplifier. I got all the available channels in Brampton, but I don't get sun TV at all & CBC is breaking up , what should I do to resolve this prob.
any help would be appreciated
2010-05-16, 10:06 AM
Once in a while I get the same thing on windy days,,,
2010-05-16, 12:45 PM
param2377, please follow these steps so that we can get better info from you to solve the problem:
2010-05-17, 08:19 PM
Can you please explain to me what "stacked 4221HD setup" and "CM4221HD (with hacks)" mean?
Can this area (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dcd72628f21bad4) pull in signals easily or just so-so?
I really want to get U.S. channels as well as local.
2010-05-18, 09:40 AM
The bearing to the Toronto channels suggests the location is in NW Brampton and not Mississauga, but based on the TV Fool numbers an outdoor antenna should be able to pull in everything from Buffalo (and obviously Toronto).
You'll have to look around your area to the SE to see if there are any tall buildings or trees near you which could block the Buffalo signals.
2010-05-18, 10:30 AM
I live just north and a little west of the centre of Brampton (Queen and Main), in the Vodden and English area. Semi house, with full access to the roof, so I can mount a stand or tower if justified. The street we are on is around 30 years old, but surrouding streets are much much older, so there is a fair number of mature and tall trees.
I think our elevation is a bit low, and there are highrises going up in the centre of town, so I would be concerned about getting reception. Is there any way to find out, without spending $$$ buying hardware? I really don't like to purchase stuff that is going to be useless.
A few years ago, I was quoted roughly $500 to put up an antenna, which is OK with me if it works. Spending even $20 on a cheapie that does not work is seems senseless, so research seems the best startng point.
My idea of an ideal solution is someone with a signal tester and a handheld antenna that would stand on the roof and see how strong the signals from the CN tower are, and how strong the signals from Buffalo are. Is that possible? Does anyone do that, free or for a fee?