Hi,

I would like to thank the members for their many useful tips and advice.

I took the plunge and purchased my first OTA rig from SaveandReplay which included the Channel Master 4228HD, chimney mount kit, RG6 cable etc.

I installed it on a chimney mount (about 30' high) and ran the RG6 cable directly from the antenna to a distribution panel in the house.

Questions I have are as follows:

1. Is there a requirement for how far the ground wire needs to be from the RG6 run?

2. The chimney mount kit came with a 75/300 transformer and which I did not install. Do I need to use the transformer or is it better to run directly from the 4228HD to the panel?

3. I have clean line of sight with no obstructions. I pointed the antenna towards the Buffalo stations which according to TVFool is at 131 deg. I get most stations there and from Toronto with the exception of City-TV HD and Global HD. Would it be better to point in between both Toronto (89 deg ) and Buffalo (131 deg). Would an amp be beneficial? (TVfool info below)

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d23c5a6eec17c3e

I have the same issue as well.

I am 7 min north of 401 and Winston Churchill and am considering a preamp.

Let me know how you resolve this.


Thanks.

Glad to hear you're having success!

1. The ground wire should be a short as possible. You are running the RG6 through a grounding block before it comes in to your house?

2. The antenna has a balun already installed on the antenna. You do NOT need to use the extra balun.

3. The 4228HD has a relatively narrow beamwidth so pointing it between Toronto and Buffalo may not work very well to receive both locations. However, you're already getting most stations by aiming at Buffalo so if anything you could try nudging the antenna to 120 degrees and see what happens. Failing that you'll probably need a rotator to take full advantage of the antenna. A pre-amp will help for long cable runs from the antenna to the tv but it may also cause overload. They're a mixed blessing. :) I'd say to try re-aiming the antenna before getting a pre-amp.

why do you want city when you have all there programing from the original sourceA friend is frequently on a local show of theirs.

Hi Nibble I have a cm4228 , located at kennedy and clarence . also installed a titan preamp
the cm4228 is directed towards buffalo . get all canadian stations(toronto) hamilton 18.1 comes and goes all the buffalo stations coming in great 2.1 2.2 2.3 4.1 7.1 17.1 17.2 17.3
23.1 29.1 29.2 49.1 49.2 but ion comes and goes . Did need a preamp to boost signal strenght.

Thanks guys. I'll be using the CM7777 pre-amp. The two cables will be of identical length and the manufacturer (from the same spool) - I'll be shooting with both antennas towards Buffalo. My idea was to bring the two long cables into the CM splitter (don't remember the model - got it from our sponsor store) and then use a very short cable between the splitter and the pre-amp. The top wall bracket will be right underneath the eave, and it's really tough (and dangerous) to drag the whole thing up there, holding it only at the bottom 3' and hook it up. I'm not getting onto the roof... I'm hoping to keep the pre-amp and the splitter basically together (splitter just above the pre-amp). This way, if I even want to disconnect the pre-amp (if there is too much gain), I won't have to take the whole thing down but will be able to work under the eave between teh brackets.

By the way, which splitter from your experience is recommended for this reverse joining of coax? The CM splitter is showing -3.5Db on each input. S&R also sells Winegard (don't remember the model #)... I believe both of these are DC-pass. Any preference or are they basically equivalent? Thanks again for all your input.

Stampeder (and everyone else),
Just to summarize my situation, I'm currently about to finalize my set-up of two stacked HD4221's with CM7777 pre-amp. Also, I'm currently using an AntennaCraft amplified "UFO" antenna located in my attic (which someone, long time ago, recommended that I grab and give a good smack on the wall =) This antenna came with the house I live in right now, and I'm actually pulling in at least 18 (Buffallo and TO) DTV channels with it (ION comes and goes and FOX is not available) through about 70' of cable. Some channels are kinda "instable" but overall it's doing a decent job. Sometimes I'm wondering what would happen if I took it outside where the two new HD4221's are going... With this new set-up I'm hoping to stabilize all the channels and perhaps... bring in ION or at least FOX. Thanks again for all your advice.

Sounds similar to my first setup here in Oshawa. I had a 4221 inside...finally mounted it outside (no rotor) and got a large improvement. I had 60ft of rg6 run to my Hitachi so I figured the next logical step was to go with the 7777... big mistake since I have perfect LOS to T.O. It had too much gain causing reduced performance on all my channels due to clipping... Once I dusted of the old school books I found myself with a Wineguard AP 8700; This amp doesn't have too much gain for my setup and it can handle comparatively large input signals without clipping. IMO a good choice around here. I have 2 4228's now but that is only to deal with the freaking rain forest south of me!

Lineloss, how would I indentify that the problems I have are due to the "clipping"? What is clipping exactly? Last night I managed put up the two antennas without too much pointing / testing. The results are not that amazing (I get most of the Buffalo but TO channels are very weak). I still hope this will improve with some adjustment. I may also try to spread the two antennas apart (25" I understand) and point one exactly towards Toronto. Also, first I'll try to remove the CM7777 and see what happens. I refuse to believe that this new set-up would not perform at least as goo as the current AntennaCraft UFO in the attic =) One question though - when stacking the antennas, in the FAQ (post #16) it says that the reflectors are to touch each other... By the "reflector" I understand the vertical square aluminum tube with plastic caps at both ends. How about keeping about 2" between the two ends of these tubes so that all the elements (or rather groups of double-elements) on the resultant 8-bay antenna, are spaced evenly? Would this be prefferable? Well, seems like still long way for me to go and many things to try. It's too bad it's getting dark so early now - last night, I was up the ladder and before I noticed, it was already dark at 8pm... Thanks again for all the input.

Assuming your cables and connectors are all sound (somehow that is usually the last place I look? haha) I would first bypass the 7777. Optimize the antenna's direction (in unison). A compromise from south (180 deg. magnetic) towards east or west will have to be made to try and maintain your weakest T.O. stations vs your weakest Buffalo stations. Once this is done, record you signal strengths. Now you simply re-connect the 7777 inline and record your new signal strengths for comparison. Let us know how this first step works. There are other ways to find out but you would have to hunt down and buy some cheap parts....so I won't go there yet.

Have you been to TV Fool yet?

Clipping: is the inability of an electronic circuit to accurately reproduce a signal due to its voltage limitations (also indirectly caused by its current limitations).... What does that mean!.. If a signal coming into your amplifier or into your TV tuner is goes beyond a certain maximum voltage the circuitry of the TV or amp can not reproduce it causing distortion (multiple unwanted frequencies are created that play havoc on all channels processed by the device. this means worse signal quality.)

Don't further complicate things by re-spacing the antennas or pointing each one in different directions; that may only benefit you for very specific situations; Save this kind of tuning for when you get OTA OCD:eek:

good luck!

Hi Everyone,

Before I go out and buy a pre-amp, I want to be sure I'm doing things correctly with my current setup.

I have a CM4221HD and have it mounted on my two-story home (Winston Churchill & Derry Rd) pointed at about 145 degrees. I'm also using a Samsung SIR-TS360 as my digital tuner.

I currently receive (signal strength varies between 45% - 70%):
4-1 (not very good reception)
5-1
9-1
11-1 (bad signal - very choppy)
17-1
17-2
17-3
23-1
25-1
44-1
64-1

My initial setup was pointed towards Toronto and I had, but don't have anymore:
41-1
57-1
66-1

I'm really interested in maximizing the HD channels I get, as I'm going to be canceling my Rogers subscription imminently.

Any suggestions on what I should do?

Lineloss, I owe you one =) Just took off the pre-amp and what a difference it made! Thank you very much for the suggestion - I would have never thought that I'm actually messing up my signal with the CM7777. The both HD4221's are pointed directly towards Buffalo. CityTV is coming in very nicely now. I didn't even do too much antenna re-pointing and currently I can count probably about 25 or more digital channels (including and -2 and -3 versions) - I'd say about 20 I actually wanna keep. All the Toronto channels are strong enough, picked from the side lobe. NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS and FOX come in very strong from the front. MyTV seems also very strong. ION... well, it's been there for couple of hours at almost 80%, then disappeared, only to come back again... Bottom of the lower antenna is at about 22' elevation. I'll do a bit more tweaking this weekend and then it'll only "cosmetics" - i.e. tidying the cables etc.

Oh yeah, and just to confirm - all this is with the two cables coming TO the CM coupler being about 8' long, then one single piece of cable to the grounding block and on...

Thank you everyone for all the input.

alander, we have been having a bit of tropo here and there, thus increasing our reception results; Next thing is to get a feel for your system (enjoy it) and determine if you need to increase the dependability of channels that are important to you. That might be simply re-aiming it or with some help, finding the right amp or amp + attenuation.

Nice to hear things worked out for you! :D

alander, is it possible to get a "before and after" list of stations?

Before I go out and buy a pre-amp, I want to be sure I'm doing things correctly with my current setup.

I have a CM4221HD and have it mounted on my two-story home (Winston Churchill & Derry Rd) pointed at about 145 degrees. I'm also using a Samsung SIR-TS360 as my digital tuner...
As usual, how many feet of coax between antenna and tuner? All good quality cable? Splitters?

Next, that is a very old tuner, no? Do you have any other ATSC tuners to test with?

You probably want to try aiming in different directions. Google maps can help give you landmarks that are online with Toronto and South Buffalo. Try going a bit east of Buffalo and you may get the Toronto stations on a side lobe...

Craig

As usual, how many feet of coax between antenna and tuner? All good quality cable? Splitters?

Next, that is a very old tuner, no? Do you have any other ATSC tuners to test with?

You probably want to try aiming in different directions. Google maps can help give you landmarks that are online with Toronto and South Buffalo. Try going a bit east of Buffalo and you may get the Toronto stations on a side lobe...

Craig
There's a long (60') run of good quality RG6 cable. I installed a signal booster last night that helped better the signal of some of the channels, but no new ones came in.

I've done the Google maps thing already and have it pointed in the right direction as far as I can tell - skewed towards Buffalo, with a little more east to pickup Toronto.

My feeling was that the tuner was too old and I'd need something newer. I might just wait until I get my new TV or if I can borrow a friends tuner in the meantime.

Is the general recommendation not to get a pre-amp? alander's post seemed to indicate that it worked better without, but that was special circumstance with stacked 4221's.

jraheb,
I have CM4221HD with mod's, CM7777 preamp, and CM9521A rotator. Aimed to max. ION and MyTV can get 28 digital channels. ION fluctuates but is usually there. Without the preamp, no ION and everything noticeably weaker. Got tired of going on the roof to adjust, so added the rotator. I've had a few older tuners with 4th gen chipsets and found them not to be very good with side reception. If you aim the antenna, they do fine. Try something newer, you will get better results. For your location, don't expect ION. It is tough to get right along the lake, but the rest of Buffalo should be possible if you have good line of sight. Also doing the mod's improves side reception especially with CITY, Global and SUN and allows you to fix the antenna aim.

what does "mod's" mean - did you modify the design?

Mods are modifications, also known as hardware hacks. See this thread:

CM4221HD Hardware Hacks For Better Performance (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=104837)

Stampeder,
I will do the before-after (w/o and with CM7777 pre-amp) test by next weekend. I assume this should be done within a short period of time so that the troposcopic conditions are the same... Also, my TV tuner displays "bars" only so I won't be able to display the percentage difference. In any case, so far all the channels seem to be holding up pretty strong - except, of course, for ION. Who cares =)