Hi Guys,

I need some suggestions, I live in Mississauga near Square 1 area in a condo, and I have a small, portable whip antenna about 6" long.

I have placed this antenna outside in my balcony and I can get 10 HD channels:

20-1 (5-1) CBC (CBLT 5) - Solid picture
40-1 (9-1) CTV (CFTO 9) - Solid picture
18-1 (11-1) E! (CHCH 11) - Solid picture
32-1 (23-1) The CW (WNLO 23) - Solid picture
24-1 (25-1) CBC (F) (CBLFT 25) - Poor quality with lots of breaking of picture, but its french, I can live without it
35-1 (36-1) CTS (CITS 36) - Solid picture
65-1 (41-1) Global (CIII 41) - Solid picture
44-1 (44-1) OMNI 2 (CJMT 69) - Solid picture
53-1 (57-1) Citytv (CITY 57) - Solid picture
64-1 (64-1) OMNI 1 (CFMT 47) - Solid picture

Now my question is, is it worth while to spend extra money on big HDTV antenna (costs anywhere from Can$40-$200)? Will I be getting more channels or the same one above?

Next question is, I am only getting Canadian channels, if I put another antenna pointing towards buffalo, can I combine both using splitter (or switch of some kind) and can catch more HD channels from US?

Thanks.

As soon as you replace that little antenna you will get much greater results. Read through this thread and you'll see, and also see the Antenna Chart:

As long as you can point the antenna to the southeast you should be able to get Buffalo.

Says my problem is the poor quality ATSC tuner in the TV (Sharp D62)

My Sharp D62 has an excellent tuner - it's a 5th generation I'm pretty sure (behaves identically to my DTB-H260F). I've yet to see a 6th gen in a HDTV, only seen them in a CECB.

Thanks for the info on the D62. Fingers crossed the antenna installer shows up as scheduled tomorrow to get this thing on the roof.

Just to take a quick survey, I've tallied 3 people that have posted here who have a 4221 just pointed towards Grand Island and still pick up all the Toronto channels. This will be my setup without a rotor.

Mr Weather, do you also get My HD channel as well?

Yes, I get My-TV (49.1) but it has been a more tricky channel to snag. Analog 49 has never been a problem only the digital 49.1 (physical 34).

With regards to your installer coming tomorrow he may postpone the visit given the current weather forecast is for 5-10 cm of snow. :)

Now my question is, is it worth while to spend extra money on big HDTV antenna (costs anywhere from Can$40-$200)? Will I be getting more channels or the same one above?

Next question is, I am only getting Canadian channels, if I put another antenna pointing towards buffalo, can I combine both using splitter (or switch of some kind) and can catch more HD channels from US?

Thanks.
Before buying try building one of the antennas that is being discussed here, ie, SBGH it's easy and works like CM4228. You'll get all canadian and us channels no problem. You're not even going to spend $40 for all the materials.

I upgraded my attic mount 4221 clone to a CM4228 (yea still in the attic). In general most stations reception signal level improved except CBLT 5 CBC and WGRZ 2 NBC which actually dropped.

Signal level for CBC dropped from high 90% to high 70% and NBC dropped from low 80 to low 70 after the upgrade.

Is this reduction on CBC caused overload? I am surprised that there is no improvement on NBC since NBC tower is further south.

The antenna feed is direct into the TV with no pre-amp or splitter on 30' RG-6 cable.

Other than repointing the antenna is there other suggestions?

Where are you pointing your antenna? Somewhere between Toronto and Buffalo? If so, this is probably due to the 4221 having a wider beamwidth than the 4228 - that is, the 4228 is more directional thus needs to be aimed more directly at the transmitter.

I think what you're seeing is the narrower reception pattern of the CM4228 than the CM4221. The CM4228 also has higher gain within its reception pattern, so it looks like you've just confirmed all that for yourself. Unfortunately its not what you wanted, so you might want to switch back to the CM4221 and sell the 4228. If that is an original-model CM4228 you'll have no trouble getting a buyer. ;)

I have no problem correlating the reduction of the WRGZ to the 4228 narrower reception pattern but What confused me is that other stations from Toronto reception has improved except CBC. There are occasions I tuned to the channel I got no picture at all. I went to rescan and the channel is back.

What are the symptoms when signal is overloaded?

sc I do not believe you have overload.Try looking at analog 19 tvo.CBLT-dt is using the same transmitting antenna.IF you see ghosting then its multipath reception causing your problems.Over load is easier to see on analog but on digital just have to try an attenuator.The 4228 is much more directional as stated above.

sc888888,

You are practically within 2 minutes of me (specially at Bellshire and Derry (near where the Shoppers Drug Mart is).

I've debated between a 4228 and a and 4221 for a long time and based on the input of the good people here, I choose the 4221. Many here in our general vinicity have gotten the 4221 to point in a 'sweet spot' and gotten every channel possible fairly reliablely. Others have suggested the 4228 with a rotor.

However, my antenna is not on the roof yet, again fingers crossed the installer will show up tomorrow. Some additional gear that I have picked up awaiting install: Phillips SDW1850/17 rotor and grounding kit.

I'm paying an installer to get this on the roof due to the height of my roof, my house is three stories high and the roof crests at another 10 feet at a 45 degree angle.

List of components to be installed:
CM4221 (original)
CM7775 (UHF amplifier and from the second floor have had great results pulling in additional channels with antenna pointed directly at Grand Island
Phillips SDW1850/17 rotor (to tweak the heck out of it for the 'sweet spot')
Phillips distribution amplifier (will use if needed for a split between 2 or 3 TVs.

Before this chicken wire goes up, and the additional cost of 225 bucks getting this on the roof with grounding installed, I'm wondering if I should tweak anything else before to avoid duplicate costs. Is the CM4221 fine or now that I have a rotor should I just jump to a 4228? Will the 3 foot tripod suffice or is the five foot one a better more stable platform and additionally with the height a plus?

What are the symptoms when signal is overloaded?

The symptoms of signal overload will vary from receiver to receiver it really depends on the design of the circuitry and how each receiver handles overloads.

On my LG TV what happens, the signal level basically drops to zero (protects input from excessive signal), I am pretty sure it has an AGC circuit or something similar.

You can use a rotor (or manually turn the antenna) to determine if you have a signal overload, just point the antenna away from the signal. I had to this with channels (29.1 & 49.1) slowly rotate your antenna and watch the signal level, stop just above 50% and you should start to get a picture.

If the overload is excessive you could damage the receiver and you won’t be able to receive that particular channel or in the worst case scenario the whole turner could fail. Each receiver handles overloads in different ways depends on the design of the electronic circuitry.

With my multiple receiver setup, I monitor the signal level based on the least sensitive receiver and apply the appropriate attenuation to most sensitive receivers. So far I have managed to supply good signal to all my receivers, 25 digital channels (minus ch15 it's the same as Sun 66) with no dropouts or overloads, using 4228, 4221 + 9521A.)

Receiver: WinTV-HVR 950 and Insignia NS-DXA1-APT
Antenna: CM4221
Preamp: CM7777
Cable Lengths: 50ft from attic to basement joined to approx 50 - 60 ft from basement distribution area to home office. CM7777 preamp is just before the tuner.
Location: Georgetown South, Attic Installation


22 Channels:
2-1 WGRZ-HD
2-2 WGRZ-W+
4-1 WIVB HDTV
5-1 CBC Toronto HD
7-1 WKBW-HD
7-2 WNGS
9-1 CFTO HD
11-1 CHCH-DT
15-1 CKXT-2
17-1 WNED-HD
17-2 WNED-SD
17-3 WNED-Th
23-1 WNLO
25-1 SRC Toronto HD
29-1 WUTV-HD
29-2 WUTV-SD
36-1 CTS HDTV
41-1 CIII-DT (Global)
44-1 OMNI 2 HD Toronto
57-1 CityTV HD Toronto
64-1 OMNI 1 HD Toronto
66-1 CKXT-DT

The weakest signal is 29-1 and 29-2 at about 60%. The rest are 75% and above.

Hi dario, nice results from the attic ! I just installed a 4221 clone outside the front of my house, with 80ft. of RG6 going directly into my old Samsung projection tv ( NTSC tuner ) With my antenna pointing due south i pick-up

5
6
9
11
17
19
23 (grainy )
25
29
36
41
47
49
52
57
69

Hopefully Santa brings me a new tv next month and I can update my results.

sc I do not believe you have overload....

Yes It is not overloaded. I added a 6db attenuator and I saw signal drop across the board.

Before this chicken wire goes up, and the additional cost of 225 bucks getting this on the roof with grounding installed, I'm wondering if I should tweak anything else before to avoid duplicate costs. Is the CM4221 fine or now that I have a rotor should I just jump to a 4228? Will the 3 foot tripod suffice or is the five foot one a better more stable platform and additionally with the height a plus?
Well, one problem I see in going to a 4228 is finding one (unless you've already got one). From what I've read nobody around the GTA has the "classic" model in stock. I understand Nutech (sp?) in the Hammer has the new Chinese-made model now but there is no test data on it to see how it compares to the old 4228.

One possible advantage with going to a 4228 is it's VHF-hi performance. Come February 2009 WNGS will be migrating to physical channel 7. I'm afraid I'll lose that one with my 4221, unless WKBW continues carrying WNGS as a sub-channel.

I have just installed a 30' tower with a Winegard ss 2000 Antenna sitting about 34' from the ground with a channelmaster 9521a rotator. I have not played with the adjustments too much yet as I just did this final install this past Sunday, On the digital side I am receiving, with subs, 21 channels between 75 to 90 %. Looking forward to playing with the rotor now to fine tune. Will keep you posted. Thanks.

Hello all, I am new to this forum and I am just getting into OTA. I live 65 miles north of Grand Island buffalo and 25 Miles north west of Toronto and recieve 23 Digital stations. I receive CBC at 95% signal strenth and all other toronto statoins are around the seventy and eighty range but most of my buffalo stations are in the mid 40% to 60% range. I have a Channel Master 4228 mounted on my roof with no obstructions. I bought a channel master pre amp 7775 and was wondering if I need to use an attenuator on CBC because it is so high. or will it be O.K. Someone I know told me that I could fry my ATSC tuner in my T.V. if I pre amp a signal that is already very strong. Can any one help me with this?

Thanks