sam91, you live in probably the prime location in Canada for OTA Digital TV channels. You can get them from Toronto and Buffalo with the right antenna gear, and your tuner should work just fine. Read through this thread (400+ posts so far!) and make note of the people near you and which gear they are using to get their great results. Its all in here for you.

I live in Brampton (Hurontario and Mayfield)... I would also like to get Channels like ABC, NBC, CBS, CTV and Global... What antenna do I need to get a solid reception to pick up all these channelsSam,
With a better tuner and a better antenna, you'll get all major stations in digital. NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS, CW & MyTv From Buffalo and CBC, CTV, City & Sun from Toronto.
Global choses not to broadcast digital, so i don't watch them and don't miss them at all. All their programming comes from US stations that do broadcast digital and i prefer to watch the source station.

Exactly, it is always better to pull a wagon with a horse than a chicken

Well the only reason why I got that RS antenna first, was because I didn't know when I'd be able to find an affordable 4228. ;)

Update. Yesterday after work I picked up a new 4221 to test out the reception in my area. (hey, if I can get away with using the cheaper 4221, why not?) :) Anyway, the guys I bought it from was nice and said I could return it and upgrade it for the 4228 if I found the 4221 lacking.(btw, the 4228 was pretty cheap compared to other places I tried calling). We'll, I tried the 4221 (placed it into a tripod and raised it to about 8feet off the ground, indoors), and the reception was the same as the RS antenna. I didn't get any additional channels. I would of thought that I'd atleast get one channel from the US. Anyway, there was one thing that was different between the 4221 and RS antennas.... the RS needed and amp to catch those 5 channels... CFTO and CITY were around 3-4 bars each. With the 4221, those last 2 channels were sitting at 5-6 bars, and that was with the antenna inside the house vs the RS outside. I also tried the 4221 outside (on a tripod...12 feet high) and the reception was basically the same as when it wasd indoors, but I did notice that there was now 2 pauses while the tuner scanned... 32 and 43 (both US right?), but the Sammy still didn't get a solid lock on them.

When I have a chance (probably this weekend) I'm going to place the antenna up in the seciond floor window or attic and see if that will help a bit. I won't be able to get on the roof until I can borrow a ladder.

Please note though.... I was impressd that the 4221 was able to get all the channels I had with the RS, but it did it without an amp. I'll post my findings when I get the 4221 up higher, but I have a feeling I'll probably return it and get the 4228.... but the wife already dislikes the looks of the "smaller" 4221. :rolleyes:

Another update:

I tried it up on the second floor pointing out a window. I have a se/e view from there. Signal levels didn't change one bit, and when I did a rescan nothing new was found. (the total cable length was 50ft from antenna to the 260)

One interesting thing though when I used the 4221. When it was outside pointing south (up around 12 feet), I noticed that the tuner paused at 3 or 4 different places, but it couldn't get a lock on those channels.... Three of them were in the 30's (32, 38, and 39?), and 43. I assume that these are all US stations? When the antenna was inside for the night, the tuner didn't pause at those numbers.

Right now I still only get 5 channels.

(out of 10.... indoors). Outdoors is about the same.

5.1 CBC............... 10 (locked and steady)
9.1 CFTO............. 2->3 (keeps changing, glitches sometimes too)
25.1 CBC French... 8 (locked and steady)
57.1 CityTv.......... 5 (locked and steady)
66.1 SunTv.......... 5 (locked and steady)

When the signal level stays steady at 3, the picture doesn't drop out and go glitchy/blocky. So I guess the threashhold for this tuner is 30%.

I want to get the 4221 up on the roof to get a better south view, but I don't have a ladder. (But I do have a metal tripod now.... thanks to a friend) ;)

A couple of questions...

Since CBC is already at 10... if those 4 pauses are in fact US channels... if after getting the 4221 (or eventually the 4228) up on the roof and those US channels do come in, but are rather weak compared to the Canadian ones.... would a small amp overpower the Sammy (because CBC is already at 10/10)?

I really don't want to spend too much money on an amp (if I do end up needing one that is). Will an el cheapo Home Depot one do the job? If yes, can someone suggest one? What power rating? (that's only if I do end up needing to use one after everything is said and done)


As for the HD/widescreen content of the channels I do get right now, imo CityTV and SunTv have the most (the french one too, but I don't watch it, and will probably remove it from my "favorites" list.). CFTO is next, and in last place is CBC. (I still haven't had the chance to see HNIC yet, and I can't wait) : )

It's funny that the channel with the best reception, has the least amount of HD/widescreen content. :rolleyes:

CBC should seriously think about going full out HD/widescreen. The reason (for me atleast), is that I have found that I'd rather watch the HD channels over the regular ones. I know I'm not the only one that thinks that. When everyone else gets on the HD bandwagon, CBC will quickly fall behind (if they haven't already). The aurgument that there isn't enough money to be made with advertising on an HD channel, and also that it will take along time to recoup the investment, is bunk imo. Example, the comercials for the Leon's furnature store are now permenately drilled into my head, because I see them all the time on CityTv and SunTv lol.... which just happens to have the most HD programming right now. A cowinkidink?

ASA at 50' there will be no real benefit to using a antenna preamp or indoor cable/tv booster.

Those blips at 32, 38, and 39 are Cw 23, Abc & Cbs.

Once you get your antenna on the roof you should be able to pull in those channels. You need good elevation and a clear line of site to get the Buffalo ota channels.

Good luck.

at 50' there will be no real benefit to using a antenna preamp or indoor cable/tv booster.

Thanks Yaamon. The 50' cable I used was from the TV (in the living room), through the kitchen, up the stairs, and into the master bedroom. The final cable length will brobably be around 75+ feet once the antenna is on the roof, that's why I asked about an amp. Any suggestions on a cheap one?

Those blips at 32, 38, and 39 are Cw 23, Abc & Cbs.

That's nice to hear considering I got those blips at only 12 feet off the ground with a 4221. (the RS antenna I brought back didn't even "see" those possible channels). I already know I'll probably get better range/reception with the 4228, but the 4221 was easier to move around/place in the right direction. Once I get everything up and running, I'll probably return the 4221 and get the 4228.

You need good elevation and a clear line of site to get the Buffalo ota channels.

My roof is around 100ft high (just kidding.... but it felt that high when I was putting the Christmas lights up there last year :p ). It's probably around 35-40 feet (more or less) at the peak. I'll probably put the tri mount just short of the peak. The wife mentioned (in her own polite way) that she would prefere not to see it from the road. I just hope I can get Fox and PBS at the height I plan to mount the antenna.

Anyway, the wife now loves watching HD. (we watched Zoolander on CityHD the other day. It had pretty good PQ, but not as nice as the live news at 6 and 11... but still pretty good .) : )

One more thing. I noticed that you have the same Sammy tuner as me. When you did the scans did the channels show up, or did the numbers just change from white to yellow for a brief second. During my scans the number/colour changed, and that's why I saw those 4 blips. I didn't actually see those channels tune in and then out. The screen stayed blank during the scan. Even CityTv, CFTO 9, ect, did the same thing. It was only after the scan that I was able to see what channels it found.

I thought I read somewhere that the channels actually show up during the scanning? I guess I was wrong to think that?

Hi Asa reguarding the samsung it does stop and blinks when it picks up a signal at the uhf broadcasting channel.

After its done the scanning and the signal is strong enough for a lock it will remapped.

That's what I thought. I could of sworn that it showed the channels while scanning. (maybe it's the LG tuners that do that?)


Well I think I know why I wasn't able to get a good lock on the US stations.... I was pointing the anytenna south/east, and I was low (behind the house). I went used Google Earth just now, and I think I can get the US stuff too. I'm going to try and point the 4221 south from the front porch. (I have a clear veiw of the S and S/E from there. I'll update you guys tomorrow. (the wife is starting to think I've gone loco) lol


(hmmm, if i was able to get a blip on those 4 channels behind the house, I wonder what I might get at the front without a big wall in the way?) lol

Update..... I put the antenna on the front porch and pointed it south 'ish.... and got 5 more channels.

04.1 WIVB HD
23.1 WNLO HD (the CW?)
42.1 WNED HD
43.2 WNED SD
43.3 WNED TH

I also got CBC HD again, but I already had that before (geeze, that channel is strong even pointing in the wrong direction). :rolleyes:

So that makes for a total of 10 OTA channels with a 4221 at arond 6 feet off the ground. I didn't notice any other "blips" while scanning, then again I wasn't paying too much attention. I was happy to see those new channels pop up. lol

So far that means I can catch from my area...

04.1 WIVB HD.................. 2-3 (locked and steady most of the time)
05.1 CBC H..................... 10 (locked and steady)
09.1 CFTO HD................. 2->3 (keeps flipping, glitches sometimes)
23.1 WNLO HD (CW?)....... 10 (locked and steady)
25.1 CBC French.............. 8 (locked and steady)
42.1 WNED HD................. 7 (locked and steady)
43.2 WNED SD................. 7 (locked and steady)
43.3 WNED TH................. 7 (locked and steady)
57.1 CityTV HD................ 5 (locked and steady)
66.1 SunTV HD................ 5 (locked and steady)


I just hope I can still get them all at the same time (plus a few more) once the antenna is mounted on the roof. (I guess I'll eventually bring back the 4221 and get the 4228 instead if I can't get them all at the same time, but hopefully I will. I like the look of the samller 4221).

you should be able to get WKBW - 7.1 they have the highester tower out of all the Buffalo stations, at 1420'

WGRZ (2.1)'s tower is only 970' feet unfortanately

026163, broadcast tower height is only one factor in OTA reception, and you need to go back and read GeorgeMX's reply to you in another thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=528394&postcount=2

Broadcast tower height is off topic for this thread.

Is anyone having problems recently with cbc 5.1? Last week I was getting a perfect feed. This week I got a two prong problem. One it had red-bar reception and "signal is not available". Second now I don't pick up any feed or even get a reception. My ATSC tuner picks up antenna analogue signals, so I don't think it's the antenna/tuner.

CBC had a problem over the weekend. I noticed it was full rf signal but no video or audio on sunday morning. It was back sunday afternoon curling and hockey, but wasn't watching after that. They may have shut down for repairs? I suspect sunday night/monday morning is the time for maintenance or repairs.

Other than this weekend, i haven't noticed any reception problems.

Marc has provided some info about the CBC outage in the CBC HD thread, so we won't go over that topic here. :)

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=42447

My friend called me today because he wanted me to come along with him to Best Buy to look for a new big screen TV (he already has a 42" (?) plasma from Pioneer that is 2 years old). We were talking on the phone for a bit and the ATSC tuner "thing" came up. I told him about my Sammy 260 and CM4221 and he was interested. Since the antenna is still not mounted yet (and the tuner is really small), I thought I'd drop by his place to show him what he might be able to catch. Now, he has Rogers basic cable, and I remembered that my Sammy has a QAM tuner built in, so I thought this would be a perfect chance to test out that aspect of the tuner.

Results for ota... we placed the antenna on the second floor near a window that faces south. The 260 found...

02-1 NBC HD
02-2 NBC SD (weather channel)
04-1 CBS HD
05-1 CBC HD
07-1 ABC HD
09-1 CTV HD
23-1 CW HD
25-1 CBC French
29-1 FOX HD
29-2 FOX SD (same as the HD for some reason)
43-1 PBS HD
43-2 PBS SD
43-3 PBS Think SD
57-1 CITY TV HD
66-1 SUN TV HD

Wow, 15 channels without a rotator. (cool) : )

Btw, he's located near the 410 (where it ends).

Now the intersting part. As I mentioned he has Rogers basic cable. I hooked up the coax from the wall to the 260 and did a scan for cable stations. It found over 450 of them, but...

1. Quite a few of them were saying "scrambled or weak signal" and would not come in.

2. There was nothing in the 50's or lower, only 60 and higher

3. There were quite a few that did come in though and the PQ was pretty good (they were in 480i though. no 720 or 1080 from what I saw).

Now some questions....

When he started to go though the cable channels it found, he noticed the music stations were also found (cool), but they came and went constantly. (short busts of the music would be heard, and then it would cut out for a few seconds, then it would play for a second then cut out again).:confused: He asked me why it was doing that. I told him I didn't know why. (so now I'm asking you guys here why it's doing that). Does it have to do with that 16/256 QAM thing I read about once, and if yes, what are the QAM capabilities of the Sammy tuner? (does it catch both?) Is there a way to have those music stations work right without the cutting out of sound every few seconds?

Btw, I also noticed something weird. At my place when watching OTA via Component or HDMI, I can't adjust the picture to "just" mode... only Full/Piller/Zoom. When I was at my friends place today, the cable stations the 260 found were in "Just" mode. (we used Component out from the 260). Is this something that only happens when the box receives a 480i signal? (this is one of my biggest complaints with watching SD shows on HD channels OTA... you can't set it to "just" with the Comp and HDMI out's) :(

One last thing. He wanted to know what other OTA channels he could get from his area? I told him that he would probably need a rotator to point the antenna in different directions to gte more channels. He's got quite a few OTA durring out short test, and I was wondering what he is missing from that list I posted? What other OTA channels could we have found if we did rotate the antenna? (I was only there for an hour, so I ddn't have time to test it out more)

Btw, the PQ of the OTA HD channels on his old Plasma was excellent. (my friend was blown away. He keep saying "wow".) Another OTA convert. lol

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7167/410nv4.jpg

He has nothing really tall blocking his southward view. (no tall buildings/polls/tress ect from what I remember)

From what I can tell, there are no more channels that he could get that he isn't getting now via OTA. I wish I could get all of those reliably.

As for the QAM stuff, most of what I've found is on channels 75 and above but all you can get are the timeshifting channels, for the most part. Not that it's a bad thing, it gives you some more options if you record a lot of stuff.

Tom

ASA,

There's only one Buffalo channel that your friend is missing: MyTV.

As for a list of all the QAM channels available from Rogers, apparently that info is available somewhere on this forum. Perhaps someone else could post a link to the Digital Home thread that contains the info.

I CAN tell you from my experience that the Rogers QAM channels differ depending upon your location. Most of the channels are the same across the GTA, but the location of those channels is different. For example, I get the digital versions of the OTA radio stations on channels on 64.x, which others get them on channels 96.x. I also get CNN at 110.1107, which others don't get. But then again, others get the Food Network, and I don't.

There's only one Buffalo channel that your friend is missing: MyTV.

So I guess that would be it from the south (Buffallo)? I've seen some posts talking about the Rochester and Jamestown stations, but I noticed that both those are farther than 75 miles (I used Google Earth)

Now for those of you with a rotator in Brampton.... what other channels are you getting when you point your antennas in different directions? I would assume you guys would be getting more right? What channels and where? (this will also help me deceide whether or not to get a rotator for my antenna when I eventually put in on the roof. If I can get quite a few more channels than the ones already listed above, the price of a rotator would be easier to justify in my mind... and the wife won't complain lol).

I wish I could get all of those reliably.

I get those same channels from my area, but only when I change the location of the antenna. If I leave it at the back of the house, I get all the Canadian stuff pretty easily, but if I place the antenna at the front of the house, I can get all the American stuff (plus CBC), but I didn't see MyTV during the scan. That is using a 4221 and sammy 260, and the antenna is staying on the ground floor. I just hope when I put the 4221 on the roof later this year, I'll be able to get all those channels at the same time. (btw, 2.1 and 9.1 were the weakest at 2/10 when I tested both at my place, but they did stay locked and steady once found)

I get the digital versions of the OTA radio stations on channels on 64.x, which others get them on channels 96.x.

But do you know why the music channels were cutting in and out? Is it because of the QAM 16/256 thing? I can't seem to find this info anywhere. (the sammy manual doesn't mention which it has, or if it has both) :confused:

As for the QAM stuff, most of what I've found is on channels 75 and above but all you can get are the timeshifting channels, for the most part. Not that it's a bad thing, it gives you some more options if you record a lot of stuff.

Yeah, he noticed that it had found CTV, but it looked like it was from Vancouver and not Toronto.

I have a 4228 and I get everything perfectly from Toronto and Buffalo except NBC, ABC and CTV, without rotating the antenna. I have it pointed directly at the NBC transmitter at all times. Once it stays warm, I will be putting up a tower to get over the trees, and add an amplifier, which should help me get the last three channels.

As for QAM, all I have been able to get is the time shifted channels, which would include the CTV Vancouver that your friend saw. I can make a list of what is available, but it's basically about a half-dozen each of CBC, Global and CTV from across the country. The picture quality is far superior to the analog equivalents, but sometimes the audio quality isn't quite up to snuff (especially NTV from the maritimes).

Tom

Several posts about weird warm weather reception effects in Oakville moved to the DX/Tropo thread. Thanks. :)