Jase88....

I am not sure how to perform what you are asking??

I believe I have only the "HD" version of the staions, not the analogue.
Am I correct, or am I missing something?

I think what Jase means is to use ur tv receiver to tune in the analog equivalents of the Canadian stations. More of a troubleshooting step, as ya can glean some information based on symptoms u may or may not be seeing in the analog picture. Every TV receiver out there is capable of analog NTSC reception. And every Canadian OTA station your seeing in Digital now is still broadcasting in analog.

Thanks, majortom, that's what I meant.

CTV's (CFTO) analog channel is 9.
CITY TV is 57.
OMNI is 47 and 69.

Don't forget Global's is 41

My point was that if I am in the lower city with my antenna in a attic surrounded by trees and get all the Toronto channels Giovanni being on the mountain should be able to lock on to all of the Toronto channels.


John

Maybe I should remove the lower 4228 from the mast, and mount it elsewhere (maybe in my attic?) so that it does not interfere with the Buffalo faced 4228.

Only thing is, I will need to re-wire everything so that the (2) 4228's both have the same length of RG6 going into the combiner. Right now, I think it is around 24".

If I put one inside the attic, that length before the combiner will increase quite a bit.

Or, maybe I should do some testing first. Disconnect one or the other and see what the results are with only one in one direction.

I wish I could get a little bit more height on my mast so that I could aim both in one direction and install a rotor!!

With the set up I have now, I was already at the end of my ladder to reach.

If WIVB is back to "normal", it's not happening at my location.

Here is the output for the big 3 BUFs according to TVFool:

WGRZ 480 KW
WKBW 358 KW
WIVB 790 KW

The output for WIVB is much higher than the other 2 - twice as much as WKBW.

At my location, WGRZ is the strongest- 100% 24/7, followed by WKBW at about 70-80% 24/7; WIVB is the weakest at about 40-50%.

With 790 KW being pumped out, you would think WIVB would be hands-down the strongest south BUF station, how does it rank for others?

At my location, WGRZ is the strongest- 100% 24/7, followed by WKBW at about 70-80% 24/7; WIVB is the weakest at about 40-50%.

But not at my location.

WKBW 90+, WIVB 80+ and WGRZ 70+ and it breaks up sometimes.

WKBW has one of the best signals due to their tower height.
WIVB was 10 % lower today during the NFL game at 4PM - not sure why?

A week ago, I got around to putting my Mclapp M4 Bowtie up in the attic. Now comes the task of ganging my M4 with the DB8. After extensive tests and different configurations, I've almost accepted defeat.

This weekend past, with the last nice Saturday in a while, I ran a second long length (~80-100 feet) of RG6 from my attic to my basement. Rather than gang the antenna's, I thought for now, I'd simply run two lines down into my HDHomeRun which has two seperate inputs. The thing that is not desirable about this setup, is that now I'm prone to recording conflicts if the circumstance were to ever come about.

I've got my M4 pointed towards Toronto, and the DB8 towards Buffalo. I can't watch one Toronto station and record another Toronto station, as there is only one tuner that receives these Toronto channels (same holds true with Buffalo). Ideally, I would combine the two antenna's in the attic, and then run one long cable down into my basement. This one line would have combined Toronto and Buffalo stations, which I'd then split in my basement to each tuner. So each turner would have the full compliment of available channels.

It just didn't work out too well. And I tried a zillion different combos. In every combo, I lost the weaker channels on both the Toronto antenna and the Buffalo channel. I even bought an 8dB attenuator to put on the Buffalo channel to bring down CHCH (along with others unfortunately). I want to try the USJV but I can't find one in Hamilton.

I've read about analog channel 11 overpowering OTA tuners if you're close to the tower. Now, my tuner is the HDHomeRun which only does digital channels (ATSC?). It doesn't have the functionality to pull in the analogue's.... so would strong channel 11 analogue still cause a problem?

For Hamiltonian's, where did you find your USJV? I could order from Save and Replay, but if I could just go pick one up locally, I'd prefer that.

If I were inclined to do it, EXACTLY how would I make a homemade channel 11 filter? I've searched here and saw a thread from Mlord suggesting to simply make your own filter, but I couldn't find details.

You'll want to read about those filters in here: Splitters, Attenuators, Filters, Diplexers, Other Signal Gear (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=42428) unless they're in a different thread.

Finding OTA Parts in Hamilton is covered in here: OTA: Ontario Parts, Sales, Service, Installers (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=23984)

hackzaw, what is your best set-up and what channels do you get with it?

If your tuner ONLY gets digital channels, then CHCH 11.0 (analog) is a non-issue; the UVSJ will not be needed, as well as a trap for 11.

hackzaw, what is your best set-up and what channels do you get with it?

If your tuner ONLY gets digital channels, then CHCH 11.0 (analog) is a non-issue; the UVSJ will not be needed, as well as a trap for 11.
Alright, I did lot's and lot's of different setups, so I can't remember exactly what was best for ganging the two antenna's together, but I think it was as follows:

CM7777 power injector in basement
80 feet (approx.) of RG6 into attic
CM7777 pre-amp
Short run of RG6 to two way splitter
One side of split directly to Toronto M4 antenna
Other side of split into 8 dB attuator
Short run of RG6 into Buffalo DB8

I can't remember exactly what channels I was getting, but I know with this setup, I'd lose CityTV, one of the OMNI's dropped off never had Global (even with antenna on it's own), sketchy 2.1 NBC for Buf, no ION.

So then I ran an extra 80 foot length of RG6 and am currently running each antenna on their own tuner in the HDHomeRun. Here are the channel's I get with that.

Toronto with M4 antenna:
5.1
9.1
11.1
15.1
17.1
17.2
17.3
23.1
25.1
26.1
26.2
29.1
29.2
36.1
44.1
57.1
64.1

My Buffalo DB8 get's the following:
2.1
2.2
2.3
4.1
7.1
11.1
15.1
17.1
17.2
17.3
23.1
26.1
26.2
29.1
29.2
49.1
49.2

I wish I took better notes, but really, I knew what channels were out there with unique feeds to each antenna, so I was just trying all sorts of combinations trying to find that magical combo where I didn't lose channels. What I ganged, I lost signal strength and lost some channels all together.

I'm guessing the 8dB attenuator was probably $6 I won't get any value out of.

There were some strange instances, with a specific combo, where a scan of my Buffalo antenna resulted in only channel 11.1 coming in.

So, where do I go from here? Having lived for a few days now with my current setup, I'd really, really like to get those antenna's ganged, and then seperate in the basement just prior to my HDHomeRun, so I get all channels available to both tuners.

Instruct me what to do and I'll make it happen.

My attic setup with two hoverman's combined give me pretty much the same results as when you have ganged your two together.

In the TO direction: 65.1, and 66.1 are no shows (signal but no lock). 9.1, 57.1 and 64.1 are hit and miss depending on the weather.

In the Buffalo direction: 29.1/.2 and 49.1/.2 are hit and miss depending on the weather. ION in our area is always tropo.

Your not going to like what I'm going to say, but if you want to gang your antennas, and not loose any of the channels, then you may have to bite the bullet and place the antennas outdoors, above your roofline. Look at it this way:

Combining them, you will always loose some signal because your going through a splitter/combiner. Add to this the looses from your house materials when the antennas are in your attic, this is just enough to loose some channels. Since the splitter/combiner losses will always be there, the only part of the equation that you can take away is your roof. We all know that removing the actual roof is not an option (real bad for the WAF), so your only option left is to moving the antennas outdoors.

I agree with Marbles_00, the attic instal hampers signal strength tremendously.

Furthermore, 65.1 and 66.1 are flakey even for me. ION is tropo only, 49.1 has been MIA recently, but WUTV is always 24/7 along with the other BUFs. I get all the TOs, but Global 65.1 is pretty weak, but I usually get a lock.

Besides going outside, you might want to try placing the antennas in different locations in the attic, if you got room.

Another alternative is to try to have the antennas feed off each other- maybe point the BUF one closer to TO and have the TO point closer to BUF.

Try stacking them, but in an attic, not sure how much room you got...

Stacking/Ganging procedures are not in stone.

I looked at it this way. When I got my setup up and running and indicated what I was getting and missing, others chimed in and indicated to put the setup outside. But then I looked at what they were able to receive, and compared to me, I wasn't too bad. Not to mention in less than a year, the whole Canadian OTA landscape is going to change (hopefully for the better). What I mean here is that the channels in the high 60's (Global, OMNI1) are coming down in frequency and upping their power, which should make it easier to pick them up. The same goes with City...it too is coming down in frequency and upping its power. TVO will finally broadcast digital OTA. CFTO is going VHF, as well as CHCH. So in less than a year, I'm predicting the only Canadian channel that will give me any sort of grief will be CFTO...and really, truly, is that organization worth any sort of grief...since they basically broadcast ABC/CBS content anyways, and by their indications/actions, are snubbing OTA with a dreadful ERP, even for VHF.

On the Buffalo side, I'm basically picking up everything that anyone else with an outdoor setup is picking up in my area. The only one that is giving me real problems is WUTV (Fox). But is that worth the effort/costs/risk in setting up an outdoor setup (via tower or rooftop) for one channel? I mean, ION will still be a tropo channel, and even as goforit indicates, who has a real decent setup himself, MyTV/CoolTV (49.1/.2) is still a seasonal channel, and WNGS...well, its a crap-shoot right now...with the hopes that after the Canadian transition, they bump their ERP.

Bottom line, you have to weigh in what your getting, to how much more you will be getting and the troubles your going through, or will go through to get what you "hope" to achieve.

In addition, you could build another M4 and gang/stack with your original M4.

I bought this antenna today. CM4221HD is an excellent antenna. However, I suspect that because of the escarpment downtown HAMILTON (where I live) will not get any american channels. I plan to keep the antenna though.

CBC HD, Sun TV HD, CHCH HD and CTS have an excellent broadcast signal in downtown Hamilton. Other canadian channels are suspect.

Sorry, I've not commented here in many days, but I think you'll all forgive me.

My wife unexpected went into labour on Dec 16th (5 weeks early!). The last few days have been hectic. (Baby and Mom are doing great!).

I've sort of rationalized this in a similar way you guys have laid it out there. I'm actually getting decent results for an attic install, and may have to endure much grief for minimal gain. Perhaps come spring (or a day in the winter that resembles spring), I can look into a rooftop install. It wouldn't be that difficult, just a little less desirable for purely cosmetic reasons.

I'm definitely going to build another M4 (Not sure when now!)

Good to hear everyone is doing well :D. Congrats on the newborn :D. Yes, that is reason enough to push any project to the sideline :cool:.

Congratulations on the new addition! Makes me think of why I went OTA only.

For getting channels in Hamilton- I agree with Marbles_00, if you live on the mountain, not close to large apartment buildings, you can get all the TO channels and many BUFs with a very good attic instal. Bear in mind, other BUFs will be problematic and/or absent most of the year, such as WUTV, WNYO, WNGS, WPXJ.

Going outside, I've never had a problem with WGRZ, WIVB, WNED, WNLO, WUTV, and WNYB- all 24/7/365. I use to get WNYO regularly, but since winter it has been MIA; WNGS is a very weak station that requires the best VHF antenna you can get, and WPXJ is 90 miles away that also needs a bomb UHF.

I am going to wait until next August to see what happens, but often think about gearing up to a 91XG and an AD C5- just to see what I can get.

Cheers!