No, i'm gonna mess around with it this weekend. I manually have to go up and turn it, so, I want to wait for this hurricane to pass through hamilton first!

And what in the world is stopping me from receiving Global in digital??? I get it so clear in analog, but nowhere to be found in digital. Global is the only reason why I keep the analog pass through option setup, otherwise i'd have everything else in digital: CBC, CFTO, CHCH, SUN, OMNI 1 & @ and CITY. I rescanned today and i'm not receiving a single american station. Not even CW or PBS.

And what in the world is stopping me from receiving Global in digital???
First it is the Gray-Hoverman design. It is an antenna that is rated to go to Channel 51. If you look at the gain curves, it will drop very sharply above 51. Currently your getting City at RF53 just because the gain of the antenna is still high enough to get it.
http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/SBayRodReflectorsFullvsHalfWavel-1.gif

Secondly your getting OMNI1 because of its ERP at 15KW. Otherwise being at RF64, it falls down on the the Hoverman's gain capabilities. Your not getting Global because it is RF65 and is only broadcasting at an ERP of 3kW. Which is horrendous. If you really need to get this channel, then you'd have to tune your Hoverman for that frequency.

Also, which Sun are your really getting? Most likely RF15 off the Hamilton tower. The SunTV TO way is up on RF66 and also at an ERP or 3kW.

Basically Global is too low in its ERP and your antenna is not tuned to receive it. Once the transition occurs next August, it will be re-allocated to RF41 (its current analog channel) and up its ERP to 100kW. Next year we won't be having this discussion :D.

Ahh, understood.
Thanks again for the info, very appreciated.
I'll take a pic of my monstrosity for the hell of it and post results of my repositioning trials.

an XG91 from Antennas Direct is great for high channel dbi. Just ask Jase88.

an XG91 from Antennas Direct is great for high channel dbi. Just ask Jase88.
Yeah, but come this time next year...what's the point? That's money well worth spent on other areas of the install...like getting a decent VHF antenna for RF7, 9, 11, 12, and 13. That's my two cents.;)

Marbles_00/Adasm/Panamark:

Seeing your graph Marbles_00 explains why you do better with WNYO than WUTV. For me, it's the opposite, WUTV is 24/7 on all TVs, while WNYO is good on only the LG.

Yes, Global 65.1 RF is pitiful- most of the time it flakes with my 4228HD- but then again, that antenna does bad on high UHF. If I turn my 4221HD stack, it locks it in no problem, however I leave the stack aimed for BUF, and take what I can get with the stationary 4228HD aimed for TO. Next fall Global should be no problem in our area.

Speaking of next fall, I will no doubt be tweaking my gear: Possibly 91XG and C5 for BUF- I would like to get WNGS, and more often ION. And then a 4228HD for TO- should be fine even though several stations will be reverting to VHF- they will also be bumping up the juice. CKVR will be on 10.1- so that's also a possibility, CFPL on 10.1 as well, but due west; hopefully CKCO (RF 13.1?) will be easy to get on the back side. And then there are the Erie stations- I'll need to swing around the 91XG and see. Lastly, CHCH 11.0 will be gone- yes! And then maybe put in a CM 7778/7, ah..., well see. Oh ya, AD is coming up with some new stuff, so who knows? Stack of the new C4s? I really like how the stack can handle reverse tropo, sorry for the rambling... Cheers!

an XG91 from Antennas Direct is great for high channel dbi. Just ask Jase88.
No doubt, but I'm still not sure what is best for 23.1 - ION (Batavia NY)?

hey i was just wondering if there's anyone in the brantford area that catches 12.1 NBC out of Erie all day? And if you do what kind of antenna do you have. Just currious because my NBC out of buffalo's flakey and isn't coming in now during the day time in the fall months. I have access to an old VHF only antenna from my dad but i don't know if it's worth the trouble getting it out of his attic and up on my mast if nobody around here's even catching it... who know maybe i could catch 67.1 (real 7) THIS! tv with that VHF antenna too??? i've caught both those channels in the summer only a handful of times with my 4228HD or 4221HD, both hacked

General tvfool report for Brantford Ontario:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a3b8230bc7f9

At 4NM 70+ miles? It should be possible with a good VHF antenna.

Whether you get NBC channel 12 out of Erie or not, it's still worth it to put up a VHF antenna in your area. Southern Ontario will be flush with VHF digital stations come August 31, 2011.

Like myself, you're probably getting some adjacent channel interference on channel 12 from both 11 in Hamilton and 13 in Kitchener. A very directional antenna would be necessary to overcome this.

Hi Brantford Bill. Just to let you know, I do not get 12.1 either. For me it is a tropo channel ... very occasional at best. But keep us posted if you put up a VHF antenna and the results you get. I'm curious as well if it would make a difference for 67.1. Even now with the fall winter weather coming I can sometimes lock on to THIS TV at night. I don't know why but here is what is happening... When I point my antenna in the direction I should be getting THIS TV the signal is not strong enough. One day I was muckin about and I had the antenna turned 180 degress... complete opposite direction to where it should be and what do you know? 67 is locked on. In this direction. the mesh deflectors are pointing outward toward the station instead of behind the whiskers like usual. I'll let someone else try and explain to both of us as to why this should work but for me it seems to make a big difference. That's why I figured if I could get it with the DB8, an honest to goodness VHF should pull it in much better.

I've also noticed that screen reflectors [mesh] does a slightly better job to gather VHF signals. Don't know why :confused: Using a 4221 or a 4221HD pointed backward worked better for VHF 12 Erie than if I pointed it forward.

Greetings Fellow Digital Home'rs,

I've done a fair bit of research here, and have learned a lot. Now it's time to put this all to work.

Here's my TVfool report (Waterdown - close to Clappison's Corners):

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a3b8ad3ba115

I'm not interested in a rotor, so instead, I'll be combining two antenna's (one for TO and one for BUF). My cable run eventually will be approx. 50 ft is my guess. For testing purposes right now, I think I've got 100 ft but I'm not too sure!!

This weekend past, I visited Save and Replay and after some discussion, bought an Antenna's Direct DB8, a Channel Master 7777, and Silicon HDHomeRun for dual tuner setup which will go into my HTPC (will be using SageTV with Extenders).

I've only bought one DB8 so far, and will add to that once I'm comfortable with what OTA is capable of. I may end up with an attic install despite the losses, but I MAY get away with a roof top tripod style mount. Now putting two antenna's on the roof is REALLY pushing my WAF limits.

I temporarily installed my DB8 about 20 feet in the air just in the back yard (mounted off my deck overhang). I have line of sight towards BUF, but where my antenna is currently sitting, I'm JUST blocked out by my neighbour's house. But I was able to pull in CBC, ION, Qubo. I wasn't able to get Global, CTV, City.

So I thought I'd try out the CM 7777 Pre Amp just to see what happens. FM trap IN. Once in place, I must be overloading the tuner in my TV because it blew everything else away except for 11.1 digital. Taking the Pre Amp completely off line, I get lot's of channels back. I've read about adding a USVJ splitter (or two or three to attenuate CH11), but I haven't got around to that yet.

When adding a second antenna, should I:

1) Get another DB8? I understand it's more straight forward combining similar antenna's?

2) Would a DB8 be good "Post Transition"? Or should I just have 1 DB8 and another VHF specific antenna? So, in other words, if I added a second DB8 right now, will it still be useful post-transition, and would I have to look at adding even more antenna's?

3) Do you think I NEED the 7777 after adding a second antenna, and/or for attic install?

4) I built a very primitive JED Wideband (I think - I forget now). Should I just build a homemade jobbie for the second antenna that will be "tuned" for post transition?

5) Which antenna should point where? DB8 at TO or BUF? Depending on answers earlier, it may be a different antenna used for the other market.

If successful, then I can cancel Cogeco altogether. The definition of successful is that my wife can watch Survivor every Wednesday (currently on Global - which US carrier has it?).

Thanks for the help.

My two cents:

Your TVFool report is very good- better than mine.

1) you could get another DB-8 and have it in your attic.

2) the DB-8 is not very good for VHF, but you could try right now and see how you get CFTO (9.0), CBLT (5.0), Global (6.0)- outside or attic.

3) you already experienced overload, so having it in the attic should make no difference. There are other pre-amps you could try, or just use a distribution amp to where the antenna lines come/join in the house (see attic).

4) try the homie and see what you get for TO- UHF and VHF.

5) probably point the DB-8 to BUF, but a lot or aiming is trial and error- might be towards Niagara more than south Buffalo.

Good Luck!

(Sometimes the chase is better than the catch.)

You could also try and set the CM-7777 as separate UHF/VHF inputs (switch inside the unit), and connect the DB8 to the UHF port on the 7777. This way the amp will help filter the strong RF11 out.

As for the second antenna, I'd say, try a M4 in the attic pointed toward TO. Or even a hoverman. They say it is best to use the same antennas, but you may get lucky, and at the same time, not spend too much on it. Also if this works well, then you won't have to worry so much about the WAF. I'm surprise your OMNI 2 (RF44) is so far down the list, but understandable for RF64 (OMNI1), 65 (Global), 66 (SunTV), and RF53 (City) as they are broadcasting at such a low ERP. This should improve after the transition.

Also with the HomeRun with the dual tuners, you can run each antenna into their own inputs and avoid combining them to begin with. With enough separation, they shouldn't even interact with each other.

As Goforit mentions, you may have to think about a VHF antenna around the transition time since CFTO, CH, CKCO (RF9, 11, 13 respectively) will transfer or remain at their current RF VHF allocations. Also HOPEFULLY, WNGS (RF7) will then increase their ERP to finally penetrate more consistently into the GTA.

Just wondering if anyone knows if SUNTV is going right off the air in January? I guess what i was really wondering is are they shutting off there transmitters, aka RF 15 out of Hamilton? I had thought i had read something about it a while ago on here but can't seem to find what i was reading. Any help would be great..

SunTV discussion here:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=125936

Just wondering if anyone knows if SUNTV is going right off the air in January? I guess what i was really wondering is are they shutting off there transmitters, aka RF 15 out of Hamilton? I had thought i had read something about it a while ago on here but can't seem to find what i was reading. Any help would be great..
The last I heard that is still the plan. The only reason that Sun TV would stay on the air is if the Sun TV news channel didn't get approved. But with the application being revised whereby they're no longer requesting mandatory carriage for three years, its approval should be automatic.

You could also try and set the CM-7777 as separate UHF/VHF inputs (switch inside the unit), and connect the DB8 to the UHF port on the 7777. This way the amp will help filter the strong RF11 out.

As for the second antenna, I'd say, try a M4 in the attic pointed toward TO. Or even a hoverman. They say it is best to use the same antennas, but you may get lucky, and at the same time, not spend too much on it. Also if this works well, then you won't have to worry so much about the WAF. I'm surprise your OMNI 2 (RF44) is so far down the list, but understandable for RF64 (OMNI1), 65 (Global), 66 (SunTV), and RF53 (City) as they are broadcasting at such a low ERP. This should improve after the transition.

Also with the HomeRun with the dual tuners, you can run each antenna into their own inputs and avoid combining them to begin with. With enough separation, they shouldn't even interact with each other.

As Goforit mentions, you may have to think about a VHF antenna around the transition time since CFTO, CH, CKCO (RF9, 11, 13 respectively) will transfer or remain at their current RF VHF allocations. Also HOPEFULLY, WNGS (RF7) will then increase their ERP to finally penetrate more consistently into the GTA.
Thanks for the replies guys.

So an update on what I've tried. I moved my DB8 up into my attic. For curiousity, I wanted to see if I could pull in all Tononto stations. I was successful at getting City TV, CTV, CBC, and OMNI 2 (I think - could have been 1). I wasn't able to get Global. The DB8 has a pretty wide beampath though. In the one orientation, I was able to scan 24 digital channels.

I ended up using the 7777 pre amp and in the direction I was aimed, I wasn't getting ch11 overload. I also set the switch in the pre amp to Seperate VHF/UHF in case it helped filter channel 11.

I haven't tried my homemade jobie in the attic yet. That's what I want to do next. If I just happen to get lucky, I'll be able to pull in all the TO stations, and then have the DB8 dedicated to Buf/Hamilton. Then I'll have to see if channel 11 overloads again, and what I may have to do about it (USVJ splitter?).