Since you're down by Grimsby you should read through the Niagara reception thread too: ON - Niagara Peninsula - OTA (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=36534).

I think an attic would ruin a lot of good signals! :eek:

Yes, the attic mount is going to be limiting your signal reception strengths. Even though you get those channels now, how many are going to be strong enough during certain weather events, fog. etc. You may not get any more than the 3 US channels you already have without taking extreme measures with antenna quality and heights.

If you need something small for outdoor use above the roof, you could try building an inexpensive Stealth Hawk. It would be hardly noticable on the roof. A Stealth Hawk may actually do a better job in the attic than your current youtube antenna in the attic.

[Possibly a 50ft tower may squeak in one or two more US channels, but is it worth the effort for a few channels that you'd probably only get on good days]

If you can put an antenna outside to strengthen signal reception, that would give some extra insurance on the signals you have, but I think you already have about all you can get reliably 24/7. If your getting 27 channels in a scan, then that is pretty good considering your location.

I'm guessing that those 27 channels are all digital channels. You should also be getting about 12 analog channels.

Putting the antenna in the attic will no doubt limit your channels. You might have to try different aims- not all the Buffalo towers are in the same area- the more difficult ones (for you) are more southerly. Also, being in the attic, plus nearby structures could make for weird aiming lines. Adding some amplification might get you a few more channels. Adding a UVSJ splitter will also help, since you are relatively close to the CHCH tower- this will help cool down 11.0 and allow weaker channels to come in. The possibilities of set-ups can be endless depending how much time and $$ you want to put in. I think you have made a good step in going with an attic instal- better than a pair of rabbit ears. Try the amp especially if you have a long coax run and/or using a splitter for multiple TVs, most places should allow returns. If you get no channels with the amp- probably an overload issue (see UVSJ above). Keep thinking about it and let us know- we're here to help.

I live on the Hamilton mountain and I just recently completed a grey hoverman single bay build from the instructions on this site and am very happy with it. During the summer I mounted my antenna on the roof and pointed towards the CN tower to begin receiving all the glorious Canadian programming. Just this past weekend I also purchased an Apex digital converter box as my tv isn't equipped for one.
First question: can I view both analog and digital stations at the same time? Or must I power off my DTV box when I want analog stations?
Second question: why are there analog channels (such as global 41 and SUN) that do not appear in my digital scan? I noticed that i'm missing channels in digital that I should be receiving.
Third question: being based in hamilton, and for max results, is it wise to position my antenna between toronto and buffalo?

If this thread should be somewhere else, I apologize, I figured I would start here.

Congrats on your Hoverman build. I'll be looking for it on a rooftop...I've been wanting to see one on a rooftop since I built mine. Which Hoverman did you end up building...as it could make the difference about your question 2

Second question: why are there analog channels (such as global 41 and SUN) that do not appear in my digital scan?

The Gray-Hoverman's upper limit is typically ch51. You will notice in its gain charts is that the signal drops off drastically above ch51. OMNI1, Global, and SunTV (Toronto) broadcast at RF64, 65, and 66...well above the Hoverman's limit. The other kicker is that those channels ERP's are very low, with OMNI broadcasting strongest (around 15kW I think) and both Global and SunTV at half that. Even City on RF53 could be troublesome. You could try Jedsoft's wideband Hoverman build (http://www.jedsoft.org/fun/antennas/dtv/gh.html) (last antenna on the page at the bottom), or wait until next year for the transition.

Third question: being based in hamilton, and for max results, is it wise to position my antenna between toronto and buffalo?
You could try that, but you will most likely find that the weaker channels from either direction will suffer. The other thing is that depending on your location in Hamilton, pointing your antenna between TO and Buffalo, you could be directing it right at the CH tower. Signals from that tower (CH, SunTV, Christian channel) are flamethrowers across Hamilton and surrounding areas, and could wipe out the weaker channels from either TO or Buffalo by overloading your tuner. Your best to either build a second Hoverman and gang both together, one in each direction, or put the one you have on a rotor.

Marbles,

I ended up building a single bay grey-hoverman outlined in this thread:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=95898
If I wait next year for the transition, what difference will that make for reception of other channels? It's strange because when I switch to analog, I get global clear as a bell. But in digital, i'm only receiving CBC, CFTO, CHCH, Sun, PBS, French Channel, Christian Channel, Omni1, Omni2 and City. I received PBS last night, but today I dont and im missing Global completely. I thought going digital, i'd receive at leats a few american stations and others stations alot clearer.
Also, I have my Apex digital box setup as an Analog pass through, would it be better if I ran it to my TV with an S-video cable?

BTW, any answers about my first question?

Yeah, sorry, I can't answer your first question as I don't have a converter box.

When the transition occurs next year, some of the other channels not as strong currently will be upping their ERP. Channels like Global and OMNI1 and City will be relocating to their current analog RF channels (in the case of City, I think it is going to be at RF51, not 57), and upping their ERP...so they should be more reliable for us. The questionable channel out of TO will be CFTO as they will be going back to RF9 and their ERP levels are going to be pretty crappy. It remains to be seen how that will play out.

Out of Buffalo, CW23 and PBS are usually very strong and more easy to pickup. If you rotated your antenna towards Buffalo, then you'd pickup more stations...but the sacrifice would be loosing most of the TO ones. As mentioned, you could try and aim in between and you'd most likely get a little from each region, but again, depending on where you are in relation to the CH tower...you could find CH analog overloading your tuner as you could be pointing more directly at it.

As I have learned, for analog transmission from one device to another (from worst to best):
COAX
Composite (yellow RCA)
S-Video
Component (Red/Green/Blue RCA)

So if you can run S-Video...and you don't have an option for component, then go with S-Video.

Awesome, thanks for all the input, very appreciated.
So, just for my own understanding, Global and Fox are going to be hard for me to get until the transition, and even then I may not even get it? Despite the fact that i'm 2 blocks from the edge of the hamilton mountain near Upper Gage and a SBGH mounted on my chimney? All i'm receiving now are 9 useable channels. I need more!!! lol!
BTW, does scanning for digital channels during inclimate weather (like we're receiving now) make a difference? Because last night I scanned and received PBS, but today I rescanned and lost it. 23.1 would be nice to receive, but I keep scanning and nothing.

Welcome Adasm:

If you are running a SBGH and you are on the mountain, you should be getting a few more BUF channels. Are you directly aiming SE toward the BUF transmitters? I don't think you can use one antenna and pick up both TO and BUF stations. If you built the SBGH, use that for BUF, and then do something similar for TO and join with a quality splitter (used in reverse). I just took a look of your general location (Up Gage and Fennell), and two things stand out- there is a large apartment building on the SW corner. Also, the CHCH tower is almost directly inline with the Grand Island transmitters, plus south BUF transmitters somewhat. I would suggest using two (2) UVSJ splitters to cool down 11.0- this will allow the weaker/distant channels to have a better chance in reaching you. These splitters are very cheap compared to the price of an amp or another antenna. (I sound like a broken record in recommending the UVSJ.)

Global and Fox are going to be hard for me to get until the transition
Global yes, Fox has nothing to do with the transition as the US has already performed it. The problem with Fox, and you can read elsewhere in these forums, is that their contour does not make its way into our region all that well. It does, but it is a trickier channel to get 24/7.

I would do as goforit, and I suggested, and that is to use two Hoverman's. One facing in each direction of TO and Buffalo to maximize both markets. I've done this with my Hoverman builds in my attic setup, and it is working very well. I could only imagine how they would perform if they were outside.

Most likely you got PBS on the backside of the antenna because of the fact that when facing towards TO, PBS is more towards the back of the antenna than most of the other Buffalo and you caught it in a back lobe. If you want to test what you could receive from Buffalo, then rotate your antenna in that direction. But you will sacrifice almost all of your Canadian channels. I've read that summer time, and warm weather is the worst for actual "testing" an antenna for the simple reason that you could be picking up Tropo stations, and not getting a true representation of what you will actually get on a consistent basis. But it is fun to get tropo stuff. To find out what you will get reliably, the best testing time is in the dead of winter.

To the best of my knowledge and skill, i'm aiming directly at the CN tower.
How much of an effect would a preamp have? I've read about them but don't know alot about this stuff. Basically, my wide isn't crazy about me having this antenna up on the roof in the first place, so me adding a second one wouldn't be an easy task (aesthetics evidently, curb appeal). So, i'm trying to do as much as I can with what i've got. The SBGH is up on the roof, appr. 20' , with an unobstructed view of the CN tower. I would've loved to have put a rotor on it, but was too anxious to get it out of the livingroom and up on the roof. What can I do to max out the potential of this single antenna on my roof?
Goforit mentioned some splitters? Or does that apply to me throwing another antenna up there?

If you aimed for BUF, you would get more channels. The second antenna (for TO) can be much smaller and be in the attic. The pre-amp will help those transmitters you are aiming at. If you can, trying aiming for BUF and see what you get- play with aim and see what happens, you will be pleasantly surprised if you aim east and south east. Don't worry about the (UVSJ) splitters for now- got to get the aiming down first. BTW- there is a thread about wives and OTA antennas here- mine was dead against it until she got Desperate House Wives in HD and free!!

How much of an effect would a preamp have?
For you aiming at Toronto, and already receiving 9 digitals...not much. Also a preamp is mainly used to counter long cable lengths from the antenna to the TV/tuner. Basically for every 18' of cable, you loose 1dB of signal. So in theory, at 60', you've lost 3dB worth or signal...or basically your signal is cut in half...meaning weaker channels usually go bye bye.

What can I do to max out the potential of this single antenna on my roof?
Do what goforit suggest, point that antenna towards Buffalo, then build a second one and place in your attic. That way your wife can't complain about the another antenna showing. Your going to be very disappointed if you try and get both markets with a single antenna without using a rotor. A SBGH in the attic actually works very well...I have two myself:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_UiD8F79jssM/SzeoBe6pFHI/AAAAAAAABnQ/SitF0fzqBYA/s1600/IMG_1376.JPG
The left one is facing TO, the right one is facing Buffalo.

Also, can you post your TVFool.com report. It will help us help you in achieving your goal.

Marbles_00,

What is that black box?

That's a laptop I used for "VNCing" into my HTPC so I could turn the antennas for best reception. Works great. Yeah, the coax appears to connect to it, but it was just sitting on top of the cable. Used it many times up there and gives me a true representation of the signal after it's gone through its full length of cable. Since the picture, I've added a preamp to the end of the splitter/combiner, and a Scatter Forager antenna to the preamps VHF input. I have to get some updated pics.

Marbles_00, what channels do you regularly get?

When I saw that giant preamp, I thought you were holding out on us:p

How is that forager working for your reception on VHF. As I recall you went with the full sized Integrated Scatter Forager design. I suppose when CTV flashcuts to 9RF you'll know for sure, but you should have a shot at WNGS67, WSEE12 VHF's right now, but how about analogs 5,6,9.13 ?

@goforit
Marbles_00, what channels do you regularly get?
You can see my whole program list at the bottom of this page (including Tropo channels I've been able to get):
http://sites.google.com/site/maycreates/htpc/my-sbgh
The spreadsheet is two pages. The first is all the digitals, the second are all the analogs. This sheet was started when I first setup the system, and added tropo events when they have occured. Lately, I've noticed that CTV and Fox are up and down. MyTV has really been stable (seems since they added CoolTV). Everything else is pretty much the same as listed. The one I wish I could get better is ION...for the Qubo kids channel.

@ota_canuck
How is that forager working for your reception on VHF.
I recently had a shoot-out between the Forager, one of your later SH designs, and a 2-bay bowtie. The testing was subjective, of course, as I don't have hi-tech equipment...just what channels I was receiving (mainly aiming at picking up RF9). I decided that the Forager was the best antenna for me. The bowtie snagged RF9 really good, but it was to large with 24" whiskers, to move around the attic. The SH I found didn't achieve the reception like its predecessor that I built (and broke) or the other antennas. Nothing against the Hawk in particular, I just don't think it suited the enclosed space like the attic. The Forager was decent in getting RF9, but I have since turned the antenna to RF13...with the hopes of getting WNGS RF7 on the backside. RF13, and RF6 are coming in really good, so I shouldn't have an issue post-transition (not sure where RF6 is going though). It's nice to be able to have this option, should RF9 turn out to be a bust. I'm not concerned with RF5, since I get CBC digital so strong.

Anyways, RF7 is still tropo for me. Since that one warm evening early in the summer when I picked it up...it hasn't been back strong enough for a lock. My Hauppauge meter will go between 1dB to 10dB SNR (need 16dB for a lock). RF12 I've pretty much given up on, as I've seen its contour, and in my location, I'm in a void. Also my neighbors house is blocking the antennas LOS...so any signal that may be in the air, is getting blocked. Heh, not a deal breaker for me.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dcef3b3240644d5

I am closest to Upper Gage and Queensdale.

Adasm, did you try aiming to BUF?

Your TVFool is very good for the BUF stations, if you aim that way...