which is why I am thinking I'm having tropo issues on ch. 20 (CBC) and CITY

when ur having issues with cbc on ch 20, can ya tune in analog ch 20
and look for any signs of an analog signal in there?
I've seen analog on ch 20 from London, ON (OMNI) squeaking in here in Buffalo before.
If ya have a rotor can ya steer away from that to improve cbc?

I'm old fashioned... I have no rotor, one TV and no way to look at a raw analogue signal.

I am merely surprised that a London station would overpower (or jam) such a signal.

So just thought i'd give a little update with my setup... I have been using a Cm 4228 HD with the balun mods on it with a CM 7777 preamp, up on a 50 foot tower here in brantford, it's been working great all summer... now i was talking to a guy at work and he said he had one of thoes "digital antenna's" that well he said it didn't really work for him. I drew a picture of my antenna and he says ya thats what it looks like i said well i'll buy it off you. So he brought it in and well at least it was a Channel Master, it wasn't a 4228 it was the smaller 4-bay 4221HD well i told him i'd give him $20 for it and he took it. So i got it home and did two of the mods to it the plastic clips and flipped the balun, and unhooked my 4228hd and put this little one underneath it up on the mast and hooked it up. Wow that little sucker works good!!! I'd say that it's just as powerful as it's big brother but the best thing is that it has a wider beam width so i don't need to turn the rotor as much. All in all for $20 i couldn't go wrong and am extremely happy with the results... the only thing now is
should i just keep using the 4221HD and sell my 4228HD? I was thinking for a joke to combine them together with a splitter in reverse and see what that does but i've been reading on here and people say they'll interfere with each other, i'd have done it already but i don't have an other spitter... oh well just thought i'd share my update and please if anyone has any comments they'd be welcome...

brantford bill,

Ahh yes! One of them there digital antennas. :rolleyes: Some people seem to think that buying a so called "digital antenna" will somehow automatically get them 100 free HD channels and CNN, sportsnet, etc... That kind of marketing shoots down the high expectations of the unknowing consumer in a hurry. The good part of this is that you got a brand new 4221 for a steal. :p

IMO 4221's are king! I'm sure that many will disagree, but I've never found any advantage with the 8bay 4228 antenna. It's bigger, more elements, has better calculated gain figures, but not better performing than a 4221. Higher gain numbers don't necessarily mean better performance.

Ganging antennas are OK if your not trying for distant weak channels, but ganging usually result with a half dozen bottles of gain minus a six pack of loses. You can cover more are with offset ganged antennas, but you'll lose the gain you need for those weaker distant markets. You'd be better with a rotor if you want multiple market area coverage, or simply stick with one good antenna and choose the market that suits your needs. If you want something generally multidirectional, then build and check out a Stealth Hawk or a reflectorless GH.

I have found the 4228HD to be somewhat of a dud. In comparison to the 4221HD, the 8-bay is slightly better in the low UHF range, and it also picks up high VHF. The 4-bay would be difficult for high VHF, ok in low UHF, but it really picks up in the mid to high UHF- much better than the 8-bay.

IMO- I would keep both antennas- explore ganging and stacking set-ups- you might be pleasantly surprised- nothing is in stone on procedures. As well, using the gang/stack set-up might save you on a rotor. There are a number of stations that are going high VHF and your 8-bay would be better in this range than the 4-bay. For your location, I would aim the 4-bay for BUF and the 8-bay for TO. Kitchener and Paris transmitters would be picked up easily on the sides- no need to aim for them since you are so close to them.

ya sorry i forgot to mention i have a rotor so i'm not too worried about not being able to "tune" in the channels. i'm really happy with the channels i get but like everyone you always have some channels you'd like to get more often or with more signal strength...Ion for example or Mytv, catch Mytv 49 almost every night but now that they have that cool tv subchannel i'd like to catch it in the day too (greedy :-). Ya going to fool around with the two antenna's going to see what works best for right now, that's the funny thing though it's going to be a whole new ball game next Aug when the transision finally comes.

I've found that this 4221HD seems to be alot more reliable for the entire UHF sectrum. Even down low, Fox 29 which is real 14 I almost never catch it with my 4228HD only on really good tropo nights, but with this 4221HD i've got it every night since i put it up. Just food for thought. And the upper range well I catch global and sun tv digital off the CN Tower with my 4228HD and this 4221HD as well. Right now i plugged the 4228HD into the VHF connector on my preamp, the switch is on combine still but the vhf channels seem to be alright still... any how any more comments or suggestions would be great.

If the cm7777 is switched to combine, then the 4228 on the VHF input should be inactive.

i have a 4221 and get abc, nbc, cbs,wnoy and cbc i really need to get fox i live in hamilton near the lake on the 9th floor of a apt building.. sorry i forgot to say the buffallo networks what iam i doing wrong thanks

Fox, RF 14.1, is a little tricky to get for us in Hamilton. I can get it with my stack of 4221HDs (plus a distro amp) - you might consider a second 4221HD in a stack, or alternatively, a 4228HD for a ganged set-up.

Are you running any amplification? This could also be an option- add a pre-amp or distro amp.
Good pre-amps run close to $100, while distro amps are about $30-$40. I tried the pre-amp route, but I'm too close to the CHCH tower- major overload on the tuner got me few channels, the distro amp worked best for my location.

Just dropped my cable sub from Cogeco. Looking at Going OTA and I've seen two models getting a lot of attention - the Channel Master 4228 and then the DB-8.

I live in lower Stoney Creek (near the lake) along QEW. Anyone know which would be better??? I just built a home made one from instructional video on YouTube and its working great but not much from the USA.

mastagrilla, use the Search This Thread tool to the upper right beside Thread Tools and put in Stoney as your search term so that you can compare the many reports already submitted to this thread for your area over the years. :)

Thanks for the search advice... Now I'm seeing another option about possibly using 2 4221's over 1 4228. I'm thinking I need to place in attic as well.

Any advice???

Since you built the utube bowtie, you could try the MClapp designs, or a Gray-Hoverman. Both would be far cheaper than a good store bought and performs just a good. All will perform better than the utube antenna. What is the height of your antenna. Since your location is below the escarpment...albeit not right at the base, your still partially getting blocked by the escarpment when trying to get the Buffalo stations...height is key here.

Just dropped my cable sub from Cogeco. Looking at Going OTA and I've seen two models getting a lot of attention - the Channel Master 4228 and then the DB-8.

I live in lower Stoney Creek (near the lake) along QEW. Anyone know which would be better??? I just built a home made one from instructional video on YouTube and its working great but not much from the USA.
According to DHC members, the DB-8 seems to perform better. It also depends on what channels you want to get, which could save you $$$.

Not in all cases do the 8bay designs perform better. Like goforit said "depends on what channels" and it depends on how many broadcast tower directions you need to cover. It would be best to say that the 8bay designs perform differently than the 4bay designs. In general,.. 8bays are narrower beamwidth with slightly more forward gain [ie: mileage] than the wider beamwidth of a 4 bay.

In my case, my market is very scattered and all are about 50-60 miles away. Even though the 8bay boasts higher gain figures, the 8bay antenna[or two 4bays stacked in the same direction] did not perform well as two 4bays[ganged in differing directions]. Your antenna needs are going to be specific to your wants from your location. In the end I built my own design Stealth Hawk, where in my location, even though the gain figure is lower than the 8bay & 4bay designs, the Stealth Hawk from my location out-performs the 4bay & 8bay antennas.

I don't doubt that newer antenna breeds will surface over the next few years, but I doubt that an antenna's gain figure alone will determine the best antenna for a specific location.

Yes, it seems to me that it does depend on the channels I want to get - which are the US networks from Buffalo (NBC/Fox/CBS/ABC) as much as possible. I have no problem getting all the Canadian HD channels I want with my home made antenna, but I really would like the US networks to watch more NFL.

I went to TVFOOL and did a rating (see below). Furthermore, I live in a subdivision on Lake Ontario at the Fifty Road exit off QEW (edge of Stoney Creek and Grimsby). I'm guessing the escarpment is kind of in play???

Any clearer idea on buying the DB8, CM4228HD, or building my own gray hoverman? (I've got lots of extra copper wire from my basement renovation).

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a143/jaj123175/Radar-All.png

I would be placing it up in my attic... about 25 feet above ground.

The 'whiskers' style or 'bowtie' as you call it is doing great for Canadian channels (CBC/CTV/SUN/CTS/GLOBAL/OMNI/CITY), but nothing from Buffalo except 23.1 in HD

Am I dreaming about getting these stations, or is there something out there to pull them in. I also did a TVFOOL readout...and just posted it here in another response.

Not sure if a attic mounted antenna will cut it for your location. Here's an example. This is a contour of WIVB around the Stony Creek area:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_UiD8F79jssM/TMM1IHGgI9I/AAAAAAAAB4U/UvkvkXjfIVk/s512/wivb.PNG
Now, this is a capture from TVFool.com, and may not be totally accurate, but as you can see the void from the escarpment. Then all along the lake front, it is a very weak signal...mostly from the escarpment blocking it. WKBW's contour is also the same. According to the bottom chart, an attic mount antenna won't cut it (except for Tropo events). If you got your antenna higher, than you'd most likely have better success. Even with a DB8 or CM4228, unless you get higher than your attic, your going to have issues. Attic mounting is tedious enough on its own...I know that from experience, but the escarpment is killer.

I would be placing it up in my attic... about 25 feet above ground.

The 'whiskers' style or 'bowtie' as you call it is doing great for Canadian channels (CBC/CTV/SUN/CTS/GLOBAL/OMNI/CITY), but nothing from Buffalo except 23.1 in HD

Am I dreaming about getting these stations, or is there something out there to pull them in. I also did a TVFOOL readout...and just posted it here in another response.
Wow! In another thread you said you get 27 channel now. How many did you expect to be able to get? Can you repost your tvfool report?

According to what I can find, you should only get a good lock on the US channels 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 WNED, 23.1 WNLO, 29.1 WUTV and that is based on having a 30ft outdoor antenna. Toronto/Hamilton you should get from the north east.

Wow! In another thread you said you get 27 channel now. How many did you expect to be able to get? Can you repost your tvfool report?

According to what I can find, you should only get a good lock on the US channels 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 WNED, 23.1 WNLO, 29.1 WUTV and that is based on having a 30ft outdoor antenna. Toronto/Hamilton you should get from the north east.
TVFOOL report finally came through... see a few posts above.
Yes I do get 27 channels, but not 27 different channels. Some are duplicates and triplicates... HD & SD.

I'm located at Fifty Point in Stoney Creek by the lake right on the Grimsby border. Is it a waste of time for me to even try to get the USA networks? (NBC/CBS/FOX/ABC). I don't mind putting something in my attic but I don't think I can risk my life up on that roof!