From what I know people use 2 antenna's in your area since Toronto stations are quite weak. I would suggest you use 2 of the exact same antenna's
2 DB 4's. Also get a good 2 in 1 splitter and get the 2 cables that are exactly
the same size or even same brand quality RG6 cable, I would mount The antenna for Toronto higher than the Buffalo one and connect the 2 antenna's to the 2 outputs of the splitter also maybe get a pre amplifier and on the input bring that cable into the house, but first ground it for lightening protection.

This is why I bought one of the highest gain VHF antenna available. The post transition ERP's for VHF are just way out of whack...

The good news is that Kitchener has a CTV affiliate that will also go digital (channel 13). And that could be good for those in Hamilton and areas west of the GTA who are having issues with CFTO.

Hopefully the CRTC comes to their senses and realizes that low ERP VHF doesn't work.

John
The nearest intersection is Dewitt & Hwy #8. Am right across the street from mountain.
I receive Global & Ch. 57.1 The problem is one week i can watch the NFL no problem, the next week i get it then lose it, comes back then lose it etc. etc. The same holds true for 66.1 , 41.1 , 11.1 Some days I get everything with no rotor.
This has me thinking, maybe a pre-amp would be the solution, however reading the forums tells me i can run into problems with overload.
Any thoughts.
How many TVs are you running? If multiple, you might be better off with a distribution amp (as called a drop amp). I am currently using one and it does a fine job of cleaning up the signal and giving it a boost; all inside the house.

The good news is that Kitchener has a CTV affiliate that will also go digital (channel 13). And that could be good for those in Hamilton and areas west of the GTA who are having issues with CFTO.
TVFool still shows that one (CKCO right?) as analog. There will be a bunch of channels in that direction...I hope it will be a viable option, and they go digital, as opposed to the networks closing them. Would like to add my M4 into the attic antenna array I've started with two DBGH...then I could be considered a junkie.

canuckr09,

That's a great location direct access to the CN tower and open to Buffalo. I would think that yes a better antenna such as the cm 4221 and a rotor would get you most of the stations. Weak stations like Global depending on the weather and time of day are difficult to lock on to unless you have the antenna pointed directly at the signal sometimes an inch or two can make a difference. I would think you would also get some Buffalo stations can't guarantee anything but if it were me I would get the antenna, rotor and pre amp. The distribution amp is probably a good idea if you are splitting the signal. Have you been to TV fool to see what channels you should get (although its not always that acurate).

John

TVFool still shows that one (CKCO right?) as analog. There will be a bunch of channels in that direction...I hope it will be a viable option, and they go digital, as opposed to the networks closing them. Would like to add my M4 into the attic antenna array I've started with two DBGH...then I could be considered a junkie.
Yes, Kitchener and area is a region that is scheduled to go digital. Therefore, CKCO (CTV), Global Paris (channel 6), TVO (ch28), and others will be digital.

Go for it & John
Thanks for your input. This is a project i will be undertaking in the spring when the weather gets better. I did take advantage of the weather today to take a closer look at my set-up which i installed around 1990. After reading so many of the excellent posts here i realize i made a lot of mistakes which seem to be magnified trying to get digital channels.
#1-Hooked antenna to existing cable connected at soffit. (RG59 ? )
#2-Added splitter at soffit outside & then branched 1 upstairs , 1 downstairs.
#3-Used crappy connectors (some loose ? ) & crappy splitters ?
#4-Some trees have grown a little in the last 19 yrs.
So before i go to the time & expense of replacing the antenna, I will;
#1-Replace the pole with a longer one to increase elevation
#2-Replace all existing cable with quad shield RG6 cable
#3-Replace all connectors with quality compression seal connectors.
#4-Add proper grounding.
#5-Add a pre-amp.
#6-Replace splitters.
I still have a few questions.
How do you determine what is a good quality splitter?
From what i read, the CM rotors don't seem to last too long.Any rotor ideas?
I would have thought the Winegard 8200U antenna would be the logical replacement antenna (vhf/uhf) but the majority consensus seems to be the CM4221 or Cm4228. Why is that?
Once again, Thanks for all the expertise & input. Truly appreciated.
P.S. Checked on TVfool & could add some channels with some upgrades.:D

Everything sounds pretty good in your future set-up, but I would hold off on the pre-amp- see what you get with out it first. For your location- near the CHCH tower- you might get an overload problem- remember, every location is different and just because many people are using a CM7777 pre-amp and getting amazing results, doesn't mean it will work in all locations, especially those close to transmitters.

Hi all. Been doing a lot of reading, going to dive into OTA very soon. Planning on picking up a CM4228. I'll be mounting this on my rooftop, 2 story house. Was wondering if I'll be able to position this antenna to pick up both Buffalo and Toronto, without using a rotor?
Thanks for any and all help.

Hey Tom:

All you can do is try, but if apartment buildings are between you and BUF, reception will be tough. You might have to go with a 2 antenna set-up if you are using no rotor.

Hey Guys
In my previous posts I mentioned that I checked out my old antenna set-up of 20 years. I forgot to mention that I spotted a U-bolt holding my mast to the house was completely rusted off.:o
Probably a good idea for those out there with old hardware to check it out.
Have a safe & Happy New Year.

Thanks! If it's all clear, I should be able to do it then?

Test with a single antenna, but goforit was saying that the odds are that you will need one pointed at each of the two cities from where you are located.

hi guys
i am new to this OTA stuff...
i have 2 4228 HD antenna's hooked up to a splitter and one cable going to my tv
both antenna's are hooked up in my attic..
Here is the problem i am having...
one of the antenna's are pointing to the CN tower and working great
the other antenna is pointing to Buffalo and i am only getting
WNED channel 17 WKBW 7 and wivb 4 ...it doesnt matter how much i turn or adjust my antenna i cannot get anything more from Buffalonor pick up any signal on any buffalo stations... i thought maybe my problem was the splitter...so i hooked the cable straight to the antenna pointing to buffalo... re-scanned the channels now i am only getting WKBW 7 buffalo without moving the antenna...so i tried to re-adjust my antenna and i could not get any signal at all on any stations other then WKBW...so i hooked it back up to the splitter and re-scanned again...now i am back to square one..and those same 3 Buffalo stations...
this is getting to be very frusterating...as to why i am unable to pick up and more channels from buffalo...
please help...

I know this may sound strange,.. but disconnect your Buffalo antenna and see how many Buffalo channels are coming in with your 4228 aimed at Toronto. You could have an overload or severe multipath issues [too much antenna enclosed within your attic space]

hi ota canuck
ok i did what you said...i disconnected my buffalo antenna..and the same 3 channels are still coming in... i might add that these 2 antennas are about 3-4ft apart from each other and those channels are also memorized in my tv's memory
thanks for your reply...

hi ota canuck
ok i did what you said...i disconnected my buffalo antenna..and the same 3 channels are still coming in... i might add that these 2 antennas are about 3-4ft apart from each other and those channels are also memorized in my tv's memory
thanks for your reply...
I forgot to mention that you would need to rescan when you make any antenna changes. Rescanning will add any new channels found that were not already on the channel memory list. I was expecting that you would find that you could keep your Toronto channels and would gain a few more Buffalo signals using just the Toronto antenna if you re-aimed the antenna just slightly to the east.

The proximity of the 2 antennas within the attic space may be causing multichannel/ghosting effects that your digital tuner can not deal with.

Try with just one antenna first, and..., as always- the higher the better and outside is best.

I am on Hamilton mountain, near Rymal Road and Upper James. Can see the CN Tower from where my CM4228 is placed. It is facing south east to pick up all that I can in the US networks. I can still get CHCH, CBLT from TO, but thats it. If I turn towards TO then I loose the US networks.

With this antenna, you should get similar results.

The only one that seems to pose a problem for me is the WUTV stations. There are 3 of them. I am mostly interested in their RTV affiliate. It scans in just fine on my Sonicview 8000HD, but is only visible about once a month, if I am lucky.

I am looking at a 100+ foot run of RG6. Do you think that a signal amlifier will help my case? Or do you think that a 4221 placed beneath the 4228 hooked up with a signal combiner will do better?

giovanni, I'm just down the street from you (Garth and Rymal). WUTV....isn't that Fox? If so, I thought there is Fox-HD on 29.1 and Fox-SD on sub-channel 29.2 . RTV (or is it RTN?) is on WGRZ (NBC sub channel 2.3), isn't it? Or has things changed?

I can understand Fox being a problem as they primarily broadcast towards the South and can be very difficult to get up here consistently. NBC has been a pretty good signal for me since getting the antenna up higher. I haven't had a true chance to really try it out as I have to finish running my cabling.

As for your cabling. From what I have read a good rule of thumb is after 20', you should really start to consider using a pre-amp of some sort. I think around 50', you could have lost around 3dB worth of signal. For a test (though it would be difficult now with the weather) is to try a shorter length of cable from the antenna and see if you can get a signal, then replace with your full length and see if you have lost it. If so, then you would most likely need a pre-amp.